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    Thread: Raw Deal from VW

    1. Junior Member EsqR's Avatar
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      04-27-2012 02:01 PM #1
      A good friend of mine took his MKV R into a dealership because he was noticing noise and a problem with his transmission two months ago. They told him nothing was wrong. He went to Wookies this past weekend, his transmission is now destroyed from a bolt backing out of it. VWoa and the dealership are telling him tough luck and putting him on the hook for $9k in parts and labor for a fix. There is a comment thread on VWoA's facebook page, and I think all enthusiasts should chime in to back another one up to try and get them to take responsibility for what happened. the link is here for your ease:

      https://www.facebook.com/permalink.p...4&notif_t=like

    2. Member peruski's Avatar
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      04-27-2012 02:04 PM #2
      What is their reason for denying warranty repairs? Is the car modified?

    3. Member Time for a GTI's Avatar
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      04-27-2012 02:05 PM #3
      Quote Originally Posted by EsqR View Post
      MKV R
      MkV? How many miles on it? Mods?
      Scotch. It's time.

      Quote Originally Posted by westsideseal View Post
      I want to start a fundamentalist bakery called "Let he who is without sin snatch the first scone"

    4. Junior Member EsqR's Avatar
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      04-27-2012 02:06 PM #4
      Quote Originally Posted by peruski View Post
      What is their reason for denying warranty repairs? Is the car modified?
      yes, the car is modified, not sure if the transmission is flashed though. regardless, in a situation like this the modifications don't matter, as he as a paying customer went to a VW dealership, asked for an inspection of the transmission because he thought there was a problem and they did not adequately inspect the transmission and find the issue.

    5. Junior Member EsqR's Avatar
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      04-27-2012 02:07 PM #5
      Quote Originally Posted by Time for a GTI View Post
      MkV? How many miles on it? Mods?
      I'll get him to chime in on here and he can tell you more about the specifics.

    6. Member pierovw's Avatar
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      04-27-2012 02:16 PM #6
      There I submitted a comment hopefully they'll chime in...

    7. Member climbingcue's Avatar
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      04-27-2012 02:33 PM #7
      Drive the car in the lake or ocean and collect insurance money. Do not give the dealership $9k

      Good luck
      United Motorsport 12.311@112 mph on 93 octane
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    8. 04-27-2012 02:42 PM #8
      Did a VW engineer at any point address the situation? I would call VW to arrange a meeting at your local VW dealer with your service department. Good luck! I hate hearing about experiences like this.

    9. Banned BetaOp9's Avatar
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      04-27-2012 02:46 PM #9
      I'm the owner of the MKV R. Now I need to clarify a many things...

      The car is currently at 83k miles, and is outside the warranty of the powertrain. The DSG is still covered under a 10yr/100k warranty...however the problem is NOT related to the DSG. The flywheel is part of the engine as it bolts directly onto the crankshaft. So, I understand that is not under warranty and is my responsibility....what isn't my fault is their laxidasical attitude toward my problem when I took it in and their oversight resulted in the failure of my flywheel. I gave them a full rundown of what I had done (replaced coilpacks/swapped spark plugs)...they did the same things I did and charged me for it.

      Below is my initial thread regarding the problem. I was having weird phantom misfires with some DSG jerkiness as well. I did not correlate the two during my diagnostics and could not solve the problem...so I took it to VW for them to find out what the deal is. $130 later I'm told I just need fuel injector cleaner and that they "couldn't replicate the problem" and that the jerkiness is from the stiffer bushings on the new mechatronics unit...of course the DSG did just I complained about on the way out from the dealer. I cleaned the injectors, the severity of the problem lessened but I still got sporadic misfires with no loss of power and jerky DSG symptoms that I was now told "was normal" which is why they "couldn't replicate the problem" but they did tell me the tech noticed knocking in the engine.

      http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...High-RPMs-only

      I did some VAG-COM logs and noticed my timing was exremely aggressive. I an UM flashed and spoke to Jeff and we both agreed this was not caused by the flash and that something was triggering the timing to be extremely aggressive. Yet, what could it be?

      Now I know. Flywheel bolts had begun to back out, this caused vibrations from a now wobbling flywheel to be sent throughout the engine. At higher RPMs these mimicked the vibrations that triggered the knock sensors into thinking there was a misfire. The engine then tried to compensate for these pseudo "knocks" by making the timing more aggressive resulting in engine knock. That is why I had no loss of power during "misfires". It took from then to now to completely fail...and it didn't get gradually worse...it went from weird uncomfortable shifting to loud ass noise in one moment. There was no scrapping or rattling noise as other have expressed happened.

      Sorry if this isn't very clear, I'm on my cell so it's difficult to keep track of what I type, lol.

      If you have questions. Shoot. Thanks for all of the help guys.

    10. Member smd3's Avatar
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      04-27-2012 03:08 PM #10
      I think this is the first time I've ever heard someone suggest that timing would get more aggressive, ie advanced, due to detected knock.

      Did you log the knock sensors, or just the timing?

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      04-27-2012 10:28 PM #11
      So it's their fault because they couldn't diagnose the issue correctly and the part failed? Did you go to another shop for a second opinion? Did you stop driving the car and ask that they dig in to the issue further at your cost? I'm guessing no. And even if you did a repair shop isn't any more responsible for not being able to diagnose a problem than a doctor is. It's your car and your responsibility to make sure it's taken care of to your satisfaction. Take some responsibility. This is a prime example why our country is in the crapper.

    12. Banned BetaOp9's Avatar
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      04-28-2012 12:47 AM #12
      Quote Originally Posted by webcrawlr View Post
      So it's their fault because they couldn't diagnose the issue correctly and the part failed? Did you go to another shop for a second opinion? Did you stop driving the car and ask that they dig in to the issue further at your cost? I'm guessing no. And even if you did a repair shop isn't any more responsible for not being able to diagnose a problem than a doctor is. It's your car and your responsibility to make sure it's taken care of to your satisfaction. Take some responsibility. This is a prime example why our country is in the crapper.
      This country is in the crapper for far more nefarious reasons. I appreciate your position and opinion on the matter, and I'm not asking for VW to foot the entire bill. However, I am expecting some responsibility on their part. Unless it's normal for these bolts to back out of the flywheel and I'm wrong in thinking this shouldn't happen in the first place. Regardless, I don't agree with your position in this case and I hope it tickles you pink to know I'll likely be force to foot the entire bill. I'm hopeful you're never put in such a position to have to deal with something like this regarding your car or your person. It has a way of making one reevaluate such idealogies.




      Quote Originally Posted by brownchicken/browncow View Post
      X2

      Gotta pay to play!
      If knew anything about me, you'd know that I pay plenty and play properly.

    13. Member Sarpedon's Avatar
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      04-28-2012 02:24 AM #13
      I can understand how much this situation sucks for you, Beta, but what do you honestly expect?

      You yourself said that the car was running a dozen times better after your seafoam treatment, and earlier in that same thread mentioned that you were doing a lot of the work yourself ("I don't plan on running to a tech everytime my car has a problem, and the way to do that is through hands on experience, gusto, and reading documentation").

      You know your car is not 100%, yet you decide to drive it up to WiTW anyway?

      Is this forum and facebook-bombing what you meant when you said "They refused to warranty the car. Time for my alternative plan."? Basically shame VW into footing part of the bill?

      Sorry man, I know it sucks to look at thousands of dollars to fix the car, but still, that's kinda low.

    14. Member zevion's Avatar
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      04-28-2012 02:54 AM #14
      A $35K VW should not destroy its motor because of a flywheel issue at 83K miles. And a software tune would have nothing to do with it. Something was wrong with this car and IMO that's that. VWoA should step up and make it right or meet half way. Warranty or not.
      2015 Golf R, 2015 Audi S3, 2013 Golf R (2.5T swap, 600AWHP) SOLD! 2008 R32

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    15. Banned BetaOp9's Avatar
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      04-28-2012 03:07 AM #15
      Quote Originally Posted by Sarpedon View Post
      I can understand how much this situation sucks for you, Beta, but what do you honestly expect?

      You know your car is not 100%, yet you decide to drive it up to WiTW anyway?
      What are you expecting from your post? The opportunity to be heard. That is all I am asking for from Volkswagen and through great effort I have finally achieved that.

      As for driving up to WiTW's, after being expressed by Professionals who I trusted that my concerns were not valid and part of the normal operation of the car I took that into consideration. The car ran strong, felt solid, there was no reason not to take it other than my self doubt.

      Quote Originally Posted by Sarpedon View Post
      Is this forum and facebook-bombing what you meant when you said "They refused to warranty the car. Time for my alternative plan."? Basically shame VW into footing part of the bill?
      No, actually it's not. My alternative plan has nothing to do with Volkswagen and everything to do with sending my car to IMS Tuning for an engine swap. Out of context, anything can be made to sound treturous.

      As for "forum/facebook bombing" them...I've done no such thing. I post ONE legitimate post on their Facebook page about how rude one of their customer care reps were to me and how I wanted an opportunity to talk to someone higher up MYSELF and I'm being labeled as conniving and low? Forget that. I can't help it if the people I know are supportive and feel that my situation might be cause to rally and post their thoughts and support. To show how supportive these people have been, I've had NUMEROUS financial donation offers totaling well over $1k to help with the sitation and I've refused every single one. Why? Because I AM taking responsibility for my sitation.

      I didn't even post this in this forum, but was asked to chime in so I did only to be looked at as if I'm cheapskate who wants a free ride on the corporate dollar. I would imagine in all of your reading regarding what I've posted, you've read some of the positive posts regarding my character and think "well these two things don't match up".

      Does anyone else want to allude to my being dishonest and conniving while shirking my responsibility?

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      04-28-2012 03:32 AM #16
      at some of these responses in here.

    17. 04-28-2012 04:03 AM #17
      hmm sounds like deja vu, wait, it is! but why make 2 posts about it I suppose the OP wasn't aware of the thread beta made.

      I think it's just a case of ****ty luck. Personally I don't know what role the dealer played in this, but I wouldn't want to put too much faith in them unless you know a tech personally.

      either way hopefully things work out.

    18. Member Sarpedon's Avatar
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      04-28-2012 06:22 AM #18
      Quote Originally Posted by BetaOp9 View Post
      What are you expecting from your post? The opportunity to be heard. That is all I am asking for from Volkswagen and through great effort I have finally achieved that.
      Fair enough.

      As for driving up to WiTW's, after being expressed by Professionals who I trusted that my concerns were not valid and part of the normal operation of the car I took that into consideration. The car ran strong, felt solid, there was no reason not to take it other than my self doubt.
      Also, fair enough.

      No, actually it's not. My alternative plan has nothing to do with Volkswagen and everything to do with sending my car to IMS Tuning for an engine swap. Out of context, anything can be made to sound treturous.
      It was not my intention to imply that you're being 'treacherous'. As an outsider looking in (as I imagine some of the other folks here may be), I can only go by what I'm reading in the forums.
      What I read had no mention of sending the car to IMS Tuning, but you did ask people to like/comment/whatever on the Facebook thread.
      Not 'treacherous', but not exactly very forthcoming either.

      As for "forum/facebook bombing" them...I've done no such thing. I post ONE legitimate post on their Facebook page about how rude one of their customer care reps were to me and how I wanted an opportunity to talk to someone higher up MYSELF and I'm being labeled as conniving and low? Forget that. I can't help it if the people I know are supportive and feel that my situation might be cause to rally and post their thoughts and support.
      You asked yesterday in one thread to help you get noticed by VW on Facebook by liking/commenting on your post. I read all of them, and everyone is pretty much going "shame on you, VW".

      To show how supportive these people have been, I've had NUMEROUS financial donation offers totaling well over $1k to help with the sitation and I've refused every single one. Why? Because I AM taking responsibility for my sitation.
      What people do with their money is not my business, and I am not saying they should or shouldn't help you out. What happened to you sucks, and if people want to help, more power to them.

      I didn't even post this in this forum, but was asked to chime in so I did only to be looked at as if I'm cheapskate who wants a free ride on the corporate dollar. I would imagine in all of your reading regarding what I've posted, you've read some of the positive posts regarding my character and think "well these two things don't match up".

      Yesterday 08:49 AM -
      I posted on Volkswagen USA's facebook page my situation, and you can help get it noticed.

      Like it. Comment on it. Show your support/disappointment. Keep it smart and respectful. I'm asking for my voice to be heard, not shut down an empire.


      All I am asking is for assitance with the bill, as it was not my oversight that allowed this to get so far.
      I don't know you, so I don't know your 'character'. You seem like a nice guy, who's very helpful with your guides and howtos, and based on the FB comments, a 'stand-up guy' who's 'big in the FL VW scene'. That's pretty cool, and I have no reason to doubt any of that.
      However, I don't know you or dealt with you, you're just another forum poster, just like I am just another poster, that's all. And the post I quoted above is telling me that you want a 'partially-corporate-sponsored ride'.

      Does anyone else want to allude to my being dishonest and conniving while shirking my responsibility?
      No one is saying you're dishonest or conniving. What I am saying is that if you want help dealing with VW, then let's be clear about it rather than just have everyone on FB pile up like VW are the bad guys.

      1) Car develops strange issue a month or so ago
      2) You try to troubleshoot it, take it to a dealer, dealer tells you car is ok.
      3) You perform some repairs and maintenance as reported that improved the issue (athough it's still present to some extent)
      4) Car seems in decent shape for trip. Off you go, then *really bad things* happen.
      5) You try to get in touch with VW to see why the dealer you took it for a checkup missed original issue, resulting in a even bigger problem. VW are 'less-than-thrilled' to help.

      Is that about correct?

      Let's be fair here. You have a car out of warranty, with number of aftermarket modifications that may cause a (less-than-competent or helpful) dealer to have issues getting to the root cause of the issue (particularly the ECU/DSG tunes).
      Incidentally, you make no mention whether or not VW and the dealer are/were fully aware of the extent of the modifications.
      You continue to drive the car, and (as far as I can tell) opt not to take it to another mechanic/dealer/whatever because you may not have had the time, money, etc.

      Where exactly is VW at fault?

      I hope you get things sorted out one way or another, but IMHO, I don't think VW itself is doing anything wrong here.

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      04-28-2012 08:31 AM #19
      Who brought the douche?

      In al seriousness. Your looking at it too hard. Beta brought it a dealership to get a problem checked out. They said its good. He drives it and it breaks on him. How is VW not responsible for this? I dot understand your argument to Beta. He caught something wrong, brought it in, they told him it was fine, and so he drove his car like any other normal person would do. Car breaks and it's not VW's problem?

      The fact that he caught something wrong, dealership waived it off and then something breaks soon after he brought it to the dealership is too much of a coincidence of you ask me.

      Be real dude, look at the facts and stop trying to be a douchebag.

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      04-28-2012 08:43 AM #20
      Not so much VW problem but the dealerships

    21. Member OUG13's Avatar
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      04-28-2012 09:11 AM #21
      Quote Originally Posted by Sdubs View Post
      Who brought the douche?

      In al seriousness. Your looking at it too hard. Beta brought it a dealership to get a problem checked out. They said its good. He drives it and it breaks on him. How is VW not responsible for this? I dot understand your argument to Beta. He caught something wrong, brought it in, they told him it was fine, and so he drove his car like any other normal person would do. Car breaks and it's not VW's problem?

      The fact that he caught something wrong, dealership waived it off and then something breaks soon after he brought it to the dealership is too much of a coincidence of you ask me.

      Be real dude, look at the facts and stop trying to be a douchebag.
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    22. Member milk4brains's Avatar
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      04-28-2012 09:12 AM #22
      yeah i would say its more the dealer ships problem all dealerships work flat rate and sometimes things get over looked they jump to standard problems. I had had a problem with a local dealer ship with another car myself. it is always a good idea to take it to a few different shops the more oppions you can get onthe issue. you should look for some other shops that work on vw audi often. i think at this point you might be stuck paying it unless you get a hole in your oil pan and call it an insurance job


      good luck with your situation are they replacing the engine? what is the $9,000 for i may have missed it i am reading from a cell phone

    23. Member
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      04-28-2012 10:31 AM #23
      Quote Originally Posted by webcrawlr View Post
      So it's their fault because they couldn't diagnose the issue correctly and the part failed? Did you go to another shop for a second opinion? Did you stop driving the car and ask that they dig in to the issue further at your cost? I'm guessing no. And even if you did a repair shop isn't any more responsible for not being able to diagnose a problem than a doctor is. It's your car and your responsibility to make sure it's taken care of to your satisfaction. Take some responsibility. This is a prime example why our country is in the crapper.
      Really!? Your comments are foolish at best...

    24. 04-28-2012 10:47 AM #24
      Rarely does a company as big as VW bow to the court of public opinion when there is only one victim. Just a basic premise.

      Does VW or the dealership have any legal responsibility is the question. VW provide a warranty that is reasonable. Can failures occur outside the warrant? Yep. Is VW liable when that happens? Only if it's such a widespread problem that a recall is ordered.

      Would VW be interested in this failure as the first of a widespread problem? With less than 5000 of these units in the USA it won't ever be "widespread".

      The dealership could have made a difference. Were they negligent in their diagnosis of the problem? That's the question for an arbitrator, if that's even an option. Prior to spending $9K on repairs it might be worth $1K to contact a lawyer to see if there's a legal option. Of course they'll tell you it'll cost you $10K to answer that question by taking it to court, but a letter from "your" lawyer to the dealership using a few good legal phrases will make the dealership negotiate in good faith.

      Bottom line, you need to use effective means to negotiate this local issue. It's not a VW issue unless the dealership, once committed to helping you, will state that the factory failed to install the bolts properly resulting in their inevitable failure.

      Good luck. It sucks when you lose confidence in the folks who are supposed to help.

      C97

    25. Member strausj22's Avatar
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      04-28-2012 10:48 AM #25
      Quote Originally Posted by kidplatinum View Post
      Really!? Your comments are foolish at best...
      2nd that...

      Chimed in on the facebook post. I think VWoA needs to pay more attention to the face of their business, these lousy dealerships. It's terrible that the service portion of these businesses are so brutal. I could go on for days on how much I dread bringing my car to a dealership for any type of work. It's almost a guarantee that my car comes back with a new issue or with the original issue ("we could not recreate the issue...") ... I think VWoA should do a "secret shopper" survey of some of their notoriously bad dealerships. Although, by the sounds of it, that may prove to be rediculously expensive as these issues are so common.

      I've even heard of some dealerships using the workshop mop to clean the cars!?!?! WHATT!?!?!
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