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    Thread: Raw Deal from VW

    1. Member strausj22's Avatar
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      04-28-2012 10:50 AM #26
      Quote Originally Posted by centauro97 View Post
      Rarely does a company as big as VW bow to the court of public opinion when there is only one victim. Just a basic premise.

      Does VW or the dealership have any legal responsibility is the question. VW provide a warranty that is reasonable. Can failures occur outside the warrant? Yep. Is VW liable when that happens? Only if it's such a widespread problem that a recall is ordered.

      Would VW be interested in this failure as the first of a widespread problem? With less than 5000 of these units in the USA it won't ever be "widespread".

      The dealership could have made a difference. Were they negligent in their diagnosis of the problem? That's the question for an arbitrator, if that's even an option. Prior to spending $9K on repairs it might be worth $1K to contact a lawyer to see if there's a legal option. Of course they'll tell you it'll cost you $10K to answer that question by taking it to court, but a letter from "your" lawyer to the dealership using a few good legal phrases will make the dealership negotiate in good faith.

      Bottom line, you need to use effective means to negotiate this local issue. It's not a VW issue unless the dealership, once committed to helping you, will state that the factory failed to install the bolts properly resulting in their inevitable failure.

      Good luck. It sucks when you lose confidence in the folks who are supposed to help.

      C97
      I agree with you on this, but I do think that we're in an age of accountability. Social media and forums like these force larger business to make ammends, even with individual issues like these.
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      04-28-2012 10:51 AM #27
      First I would like to say that if the initial failed part was not touched by the owner...then the "pay to play" comments appear to have no validity. If the initial part that failed was not influenced by the modifications the owner made…then VW would be responsible if under warranty. A bolt backing out is crazy…that is wrong…VERY WRONG. If the correct type of bolt is being used in the application it was designed for and is installed properly it should NEVER back out. Two exceptions... unless specifically designed to do so or something is wrong. I have the feeling the flywheel bolts are not designed to back out...so I am going to go with something is wrong...final answer. Something has caused this and that is what the dealership needs to identify. The failure of other parts and/or systems after the bolt backed out is secondary at this point. Those failures were caused by the bolt. I would hate for anyone to pay $9k and have the same problem later due to the real problem not being resolved.

      So if we are getting the complete story from the owner...I would think VW and the VW dealership needs to resolve the issue.

      It appears to me that the owner attempted to get this issue resolved. He went to the dealer and also spoke with the manufacture for the software upgrade. I am not really sure what other measures could have been taken that would have yielded different results. The dealership is responsible for diagnostics of the car, no? So if the issue was not diagnosed properly by the very entity who exist to do just that...makes me think the dealer is at fault (just my opinion).

      Hopefully this will be resolved in a manner where VW and the owner will be happy.

    3. Member 10Ten's Avatar
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      04-28-2012 10:51 AM #28
      wow Beta, i haven't been keeping up with most posts on our forum... sorry to hear about this.

      i agree that VW should take no less than half the responsibility. no less. more is better for continued healthy consumer relations.
      function/form

    4. Member Uncle Wiggley's Avatar
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      04-28-2012 12:12 PM #29
      Quote Originally Posted by BlixaBargeld View Post
      Not so much VW problem but the dealerships
      Disagree, agree, but in a friendly way. It is a VW problem, VW needs to watch and hold themselves just as accountable as the dealerships/service centers that sell and maintain the product.

      VW service is just terrible, and the fact I hear stuff from my neighbors who own VW's and suffer the same issues similar to Beta and others on the Tex is ridiculous, these people are not even close to the modification market and still getting the shaft.

    5. 04-28-2012 01:20 PM #30
      VW would only be liable through negligence or through malice.

      Not sure if that's the case here, but from this rather lengthy Google search it seems that they have a bit of a problem with their dual mass flywheels.

      There's even numerous YouTube videos of failing/failed flywheels on DSG and manual tranny cars.



      Even if VW doesn't consider it a recall-worthy problem, it's hard to believe VW mechanics don't know about it and aren't aware of the symptoms.
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    6. Member oldracer's Avatar
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      04-28-2012 01:43 PM #31
      Fact : 7 out of 10 flywheel bolts sheared of after a dealer checked the car and claimed everything was normal.

      VW's biggest roadblock to success and atgaining #1 in the world is it's mostly shiity dealer network.....
      My dealer is exceptional, however, far from the norm for most people.

      I am a former Service manger and shopowner and treating customers well is th key to success.

      I have dealt with Shawn and he is a true enthusiast and VW lover, maybe not after this though.....
      He maintains his car exceptionally ell and deeply cares about keeping it pristine.......

      In my 50 years of fabricating, building cars from scratch, (Street Rods & racecars), none of the mods to Shawn's car would cause a defect like flywheel bolts back out and then shear off.
      It's a defect plain and simple - VW like other Mfrs don't want to spend the $$ or even admit it's their fault because with todays propensity to sue it would leave then exposed for every issue that ever happens.

      Some of you morons took an accusatory tone towards Shawn, as if he could cause defective flywheels bolts, without them ever being touched.
      When ignorant of the facts and apparently mechanical problems it's best to just not comment until you know the situation fully.

      I personally think VW bears some responsibility here and it would be a great public relations move to assist Shawn, their actions could solidify their customer's loyalty and do them world of good.

      My family bought a 1957 VW Kombi new as our first VW, We presently have 5 in the family and in 55 years our experience has been almost always positive, not a bad record.
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    7. Member VWNDAHS's Avatar
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      04-28-2012 02:22 PM #32
      Quote Originally Posted by oldracer View Post

      I have dealt with Shawn and he is a true enthusiast and VW lover, maybe not after this though.....
      He maintains his car exceptionally ell and deeply cares about keeping it pristine.......

      In my 50 years of fabricating, building cars from scratch, (Street Rods & racecars), none of the mods to Shawn's car would cause a defect like flywheel bolts back out and then shear off.
      It's a defect plain and simple - VW like other Mfrs don't want to spend the $$ or even admit it's their fault because with todays propensity to sue it would leave then exposed for every issue that ever happens.

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      04-28-2012 03:08 PM #33
      Quote Originally Posted by nobodylikesmilhouse View Post
      VW would only be liable through negligence or through malice.

      Not sure if that's the case here, but from this rather lengthy Google search it seems that they have a bit of a problem with their dual mass flywheels.

      There's even numerous YouTube videos of failing/failed flywheels on DSG and manual tranny cars.



      Even if VW doesn't consider it a recall-worthy problem, it's hard to believe VW mechanics don't know about it and aren't aware of the symptoms.
      Funny you should mention that because I read another thread right after I posted here with a FLYWHEEL problem. Now I hear of more...this is starting to make me wonder. My car will be out of warranty soon. I thinking I should check into the extended warranty.

    9. Member Sarpedon's Avatar
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      04-28-2012 03:24 PM #34
      Quote Originally Posted by oldracer View Post
      Fact : 7 out of 10 flywheel bolts sheared of after a dealer checked the car and claimed everything was normal.

      VW's biggest roadblock to success and atgaining #1 in the world is it's mostly shiity dealer network.....
      My dealer is exceptional, however, far from the norm for most people.

      I am a former Service manger and shopowner and treating customers well is th key to success.

      I have dealt with Shawn and he is a true enthusiast and VW lover, maybe not after this though.....
      He maintains his car exceptionally ell and deeply cares about keeping it pristine.......
      No argument whatsoever with any of the above.

      Quote Originally Posted by oldracer
      Some of you morons took an accusatory tone towards Shawn, as if he could cause defective flywheels bolts, without them ever being touched.
      I don't think anyone said any such thing (at least I didn't).
      What I did say, based on what I've read in the different threads so far (summed up for the reading-comprehension impaired):

      1) Car has issues.
      2) Car is taken to dealer, dealer can't find anything wrong
      3) Beta notices the issue is still to some extent there even after blessing from dealer, doesn't take it to other mechanic/dealer/etc for a second opinion for whatever reason
      4) Hell breaks loose during trip

      I am not saying Beta did anything wrong or bad to his car. What I am saying is that from VW's perspective, he has a out-of-warranty car with modifications that (they could claim) could/would hinder the diagnostic process.
      I am *NOT* saying the mods did cause any issues or were the cause for the issue.
      I AM saying that a dealer will use this as an excuse for why they couldn't properly diagnose any issues, if needed.

      Quote Originally Posted by oldracer
      When ignorant of the facts and apparently mechanical problems it's best to just not comment until you know the situation fully.
      We were asked go and like/comment on the post on VW's FB page.
      Using this standard, why should anyone like/comment on the FB wall-post?

      Quote Originally Posted by oldracer
      I personally think VW bears some responsibility here and it would be a great public relations move to assist Shawn, their actions could solidify their customer's loyalty and do them world of good.
      Maybe the dealer should get some of the blame for not performing a more thorough check, sure, specially if they were negligent in doing a thorough check in any way. Maybe Beta should have taken the car to another dealer or a mechanic to have it checked again, since the problem was still there.
      Yes, maybe it would be good PR, but I don't think VW bears any responsibility. They haven't done anything wrong as far as I can tell from what I've read.

      It's a crappy situation, and I do hope it works out for Beta, but you can't expect a manufacturer to accept responsibility for products that are out-of-warranty or services that aren't provided directly by them.

    10. Member zevion's Avatar
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      04-28-2012 03:37 PM #35
      Reminds me of when the DSG mechatronic issue came up. Some people walked into their dealer and got a new mech no issue. Some walked in and were told everything was as normal, go away.

      I'm learning not to trust VW. I should check my flywheel bolts.
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      04-28-2012 04:02 PM #36
      Sarpendon,

      How is it that you come to the conclusion that the manufacture is not responsible given what has been posted. Again, bolts are meant to secure things...that being the case if a blolt backs out due to no fault of the owner why would the owner or dealership be at fault.

      I believe the dealer should have done a better inspection but if the bolt backed out...the dealer nor the owner would have anything to do with that. The warranty on this would be tricky in my eyes...because a bolt backing out should never happen. So based on the warranty stand point they can deny it but a bolt backing out...manufacture issue if you ask me. Either design or installation at factory...I do not think its design but more and more threads are showing up about flywheel issues.

      Just my thoughts...

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      04-28-2012 04:04 PM #37
      Quote Originally Posted by zevion View Post
      Reminds me of when the DSG mechatronic issue came up. Some people walked into their dealer and got a new mech no issue. Some walked in and were told everything was as normal, go away.

      I'm learning not to trust VW. I should check my flywheel bolts.
      This and the tensioner failing have me worried

    13. Member 10Ten's Avatar
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      04-28-2012 04:47 PM #38
      Quote Originally Posted by Im not Av. View Post
      This and the tensioner failing have me worried
      the tensioner is no big deal at all... it's really easy to diagnose and nip in the bud. but i will check my flywheel bolts as soon as possible whenever i can. i am indeed concerned about that.

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      function/form

    14. Banned BetaOp9's Avatar
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      04-28-2012 05:33 PM #39
      Quote Originally Posted by 10Ten View Post
      the tensioner is no big deal at all... it's really easy to diagnose and nip in the bud. but i will check my flywheel bolts as soon as possible whenever i can. i am indeed concerned about that.

      Sent from my SGH-I777 using Tapatalk 2
      There is a check port for the flywheel, its about an inch in diameter. You can use a flathead to check for play. A very small amount of play is normal, anything in excess of 5mm of play is cause to have it checked out.

    15. Member Sarpedon's Avatar
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      04-28-2012 07:58 PM #40
      Quote Originally Posted by kidplatinum View Post
      Sarpendon,

      How is it that you come to the conclusion that the manufacture is not responsible given what has been posted. Again, bolts are meant to secure things...that being the case if a blolt backs out due to no fault of the owner why would the owner or dealership be at fault.
      VW had the following warranties for the R32:

      Bumper-to-Bumper - 48k/4yr
      Drivetrain - 60k/5yr
      DSG - 100k/10yr

      Beta unfortunately is somewhere north of 83k miles (as he mentioned in his other thread), hence the drivetrain warranty no longer applies.
      Outside of warranty, if things break (for whatever reason), I'd imagine we're pretty much on our own (unless I'm mistaken on how warranties work).


      I believe the dealer should have done a better inspection but if the bolt backed out...the dealer nor the owner would have anything to do with that. The warranty on this would be tricky in my eyes...because a bolt backing out should never happen. So based on the warranty stand point they can deny it but a bolt backing out...manufacture issue if you ask me. Either design or installation at factory...I do not think its design but more and more threads are showing up about flywheel issues.

      Just my thoughts...
      I agree with you saying the dealer should have done a better inspection, which maybe could have prevented all of this.

      But like I said above, the car is ~20k miles over the warranty on the drivetrain. At what point would we agree that mechanical parts can start to fail? 100k miles? 200k? Never?
      When is a manufacturer no longer 'on the hook' when things break?

      What happened to Beta sucks, and I hope his issue gets resolved soon, but I don't think it's fair to demand or expect VW to 'fix' this (like some of the comments on FB seem to be asking), when as far as I can tell have done nothing wrong.

    16. Member baconfenders's Avatar
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      04-28-2012 08:33 PM #41
      Quote Originally Posted by Sarpedon View Post
      When is a manufacturer no longer 'on the hook' when things break?
      How many cars have you heard of that are tango-uniform as a direct result of flywheel bolt failure?


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      04-28-2012 11:19 PM #42
      UNLESS it is proven that the issue was due to the MOD directly then warranty stands good. Technically they can say a small mod voids all the warranty. At least that was my understanding...
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      04-29-2012 12:29 AM #43
      Quote Originally Posted by Adam's .:R32 View Post
      UNLESS it is proven that the issue was due to the MOD directly then warranty stands good. Technically they can say a small mod voids all the warranty. At least that was my understanding...
      What warranty?


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      04-29-2012 08:42 AM #44
      Quote Originally Posted by RU1NED View Post
      What warranty?


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      I see he is out of it... :/ this make the situation stickier. Good luck Shawn



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    20. Member SFCL's Avatar
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      04-30-2012 02:35 PM #45
      VOA does do secret shopping on dealerships.Warranties are not forever and unfortunately you are out of it.I would try to reach for the Service MAnager or owner and see what kind of help you can get

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      04-30-2012 05:04 PM #46
      Quote Originally Posted by BetaOp9 View Post
      There is a check port for the flywheel, its about an inch in diameter. You can use a flathead to check for play. A very small amount of play is normal, anything in excess of 5mm of play is cause to have it checked out.
      Shawn, hope this works out for you. This tidbit is interesting. Where is the inspection port located?

    22. Junior Member JayUG's Avatar
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      04-30-2012 09:21 PM #47
      Wow. After reading all this I'm glad I bought an extended warranty when I got my car. **** sucks.
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    23. Member KurtCav's Avatar
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      04-30-2012 11:56 PM #48
      Quote Originally Posted by ryeboy View Post
      Shawn, hope this works out for you. This tidbit is interesting. Where is the inspection port located?
      Also interested.
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    24. Banned BetaOp9's Avatar
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      05-01-2012 02:32 PM #49
      After being approached by 3 individuals on this forum and now finding this...I'm going to do my best to get this KNOWN by the dealership network and possibly addressed. Read on, sounds like a similar situation as mine.

      http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=110711

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      05-01-2012 04:24 PM #50
      Hey Shawn, did you get that email I sent you regarding my flywheel paper work?
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