Mechatronics swap/DSG fluid change - comments from a VW shop foreman

[helement2003]

I know there has been a lot of previous discussion on the fluid change with a mechatronics swap and the related DSG service. I wanted to share a little something with you guys and get your thoughts.

I took the car in a few days ago to have the passenger side seat looked at, as well as to have them check over the functioning of the DSG. I could hear a very slight click when going from 1st-2nd, mainly in manual mode. Shop foreman wanted to take the car out for a drive to see if he could hear it. Sure enough, the car makes the sound occasionally as he shifts, to which he declares it is operating normal. Besides this slight click, the DSG does in fact upshift and downshift extremely smooth.

He looked at the mileage on the car (~33k) and said "Well, you're due for the DSG service soon. Don't skip that, it's important."

I kindly told him that "I know the mechatronics was swapped on this car right about 24k miles, and that I know the fluid is changed at that point. I plan to change the filter here before 40k, and then change the fluid/filter again at 64k (following the 40k intervals).

He said in doing this, I will be voiding my warranty extension on the DSG box due to not following the maintenance procedure. I must change the fluid and filter at 40k in order to maintain the warranty.

I have emailed VW corporate to get clarification on the situation, as the fluid/filter changes would all be done within mileage guidelines.

TL;DR cliffs: Was told by VW shop foreman that if I don't change the DSG fluid/filter at 40k, voids warranty extension on DSG box...even though fluid was swapped at 24k with mechatronics and filter will be done before 40k.

UPDATE: ANSWER from VWOA here: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...1#post77186539

[skaven-R32]

I didn't talk to the foreman at my dealer, but my service adviser said that the recall and filter replacement (payed extra for the filter/install labor) done at 30k means I can now wait until 70k for the next full service.

Maybe it's the fact you didn't replace the filter at the same time as your fluid.

[helement2003]

Well, it wasn't my car when the mechatronics was replaced, so I have to assume no filter change was done.

[helement2003]

Just got an email back from VW. They are escalating the question up to a Regional Case Manager.

I'm curious for the outcome. I don't see why waiting would matter, as everything is kept within mileage limits.

Original fluid changed at 24k
Filter changed at or before 40k
Next fluid AND filter at 64k (to get them back on track).

If the argument is that the filter wasn't changed, what is the harm? New fluid at 24k went onto a used filter with 16k life left on it. It then receives a fresh filter at or before 40k is up...so it's not like the filter was overused.

[10Ten]

this is probably one of those slippery things if lawyers get involved on a warranty claim. i do my DSG at less than 40k intervals. i'm at 66k and have done it twice. but, hey, i didn't do it at exactly 40k, so i'm sure there's a lawyer somewhere who would use that as leverage against me in a claim.

so i guess we'll all have to plan our lives and driving so that on the day we have our DSG service scheduled, we pull up to the service advisor bay and the odo magically rolls over to 40,000.0 miles. makes sense to me.

[skaven-R32]

Well, it wasn't my car when the mechatronics was replaced, so I have to assume no filter change was done.

If the mech replacement was done at the dealer I would imagine that the filter replacement (if done at that time) would be on record. I think that dealers can search records by VIN, so they may be able to look that up system wide as well.

Regardless I hope your call to VW validates your claim over the foremans.

[Ripdubski]

I didn't talk to the foreman at my dealer, but my service adviser said that the recall and filter replacement (payed extra for the filter/install labor) done at 30k means I can now wait until 70k for the next full service.

Maybe it's the fact you didn't replace the filter at the same time as your fluid.

I was told simlar. Mine was replaced at 24k, i had the filter changed as well. I was told i was good until 64k and my warranty would still be in tact.

[helement2003]

Wait.. You can just swap the filter out on the top of the box and have no fluid loss...? I may do this, as I know my recall was done @ 25k and my filter wasn't replaced...

Yes, you can just swap the filter. It's top mounted, and if you remove it slowly, there will be no fluid loss.

See the first step here:

http://www.mkv-gti.net/wiki/index.ph...ansmission_oil

[helement2003]

My dudddddde!!!!! I'm doing this before sowo.

No problem! Have fun, and hopefully your warranty will be in tact (as is should be)!

[SFCL]

Dealer should have advised you if you wanted to swap filer at time of recall.Just add 40k miles from whem mech recall was done and warranty should be good.Filter will have tobe replaced at 40k miles and there is a minimal loss of fluid.About a lawyer...I dont know why people was bring lawyers up but VOA has plenty of lawyers but due to "how the system works"some times is cheaper just to settle.Dealers are not as bad or monsters as sometimes stated.If you have a problem is always easier to talk with manager and try to solve problem then to start with lawyers,TV,etc

[gottiR32]

Don't really get the big deal about this, vwoa shouldn't be making a big deal about it. There is nothing to disprove that you didn't do the work yourself. They can't deny you warranty issues just because you did the work. Get what I'm trying to say...

[helement2003]

Don't really get the big deal about this, vwoa shouldn't be making a big deal about it. There is nothing to disprove that you didn't do the work yourself. They can't deny you warranty issues just because you did the work. Get what I'm trying to say...

They aren't giving me trouble due to self performing the work. The shop foreman said I risk my warranty if I don't change the filter and fluid together at 40k, even though he himself said the fluid is changed with the mech swap...done at 24k miles on my car.

So like I've said, swapping the filter at or before 40k is within the guidelines, and I don't see why letting the same fluid go to it's full 40k limit is a problem.

[helement2003]

Dealer should have advised you if you wanted to swap filer at time of recall.Just add 40k miles from whem mech recall was done and warranty should be good.Filter will have tobe replaced at 40k miles and there is a minimal loss of fluid.About a lawyer...I dont know why people was bring lawyers up but VOA has plenty of lawyers but due to "how the system works"some times is cheaper just to settle.Dealers are not as bad or monsters as sometimes stated.If you have a problem is always easier to talk with manager and try to solve problem then to start with lawyers,TV,etc

Again, the car wasn't mine when the mech was swapped. I bought the car with 30k miles on it, and had VW look up the service history on the vin to let me know if the mech had been swapped or not. They said it had been done at 24k miles.

And no lawyers at this point. My warranty isn't "gone." The shop foreman brought the issue up when I mentioned the fluid being done with the mech swap.

Supposed to hear back from VWOA tomorrow. I'll keep you all posted.

[helement2003]

Update: Got a call from VWOA with an answer

So long story short, the final answer is that I need to do a full 40k mile DSG service or I lose the warranty on the gearbox due to "improper service."

The guy I talked to was very nice, said he actually didn't know the filters weren't changed with the mech swap. He talked to various dealer service people to get opinions, as well as to higher up warranty administrators. He said he completely understood where I was coming from, as my argument makes sense by the numbers of it.

Their reasoning is that they fear you could contaminate the fluid in doing a filter only swap. That's what it comes down to. If you had the filter changed at the time of your mech swap, all is well. If you did not, you'd better to the FULL DSG change at 40k intervals or else you could be in trouble.

So, I'll be shelling out for a full change at 40k, as in no way am I going to risk my warranty for a few hundred dollars.

[RRRRR32]

This thread has caused me to call to confirm the situation on my car. The invoice I have shows fluid and filter change when the mechatronics unit was replaced at 24,000 all under warranty. The invoice also says that next DSG service is at 64,000 miles. So it looks like I am good. I did call the dealership to confirm all of this and they agree the warranty will still be good.

Thanks for bring this up, as I too am just getting to 40,000. Sorry to hear your filter wasn't changed. It's too bad VW dealers had inconsistent practice for that recall.

[Stylist07]

Update: Got a call from VWOA with an answer

So long story short, the final answer is that I need to do a full 40k mile DSG service or I lose the warranty on the gearbox due to "improper service."

The guy I talked to was very nice, said he actually didn't know the filters weren't changed with the mech swap. He talked to various dealer service people to get opinions, as well as to higher up warranty administrators. He said he completely understood where I was coming from, as my argument makes sense by the numbers of it.

Their reasoning is that they fear you could contaminate the fluid in doing a filter only swap. That's what it comes down to. If you had the filter changed at the time of your mech swap, all is well. If you did not, you'd better to the FULL DSG change at 40k intervals or else you could be in trouble.

So, I'll be shelling out for a full change at 40k, as in no way am I going to risk my warranty for a few hundred dollars.

Sounds like the Dealer messed up since they should have replaced the filter when they did the Mech. replacement, so maybe u can talk into the Dealer to do the next DSG service filter and fluid for free since they forgot to replace the filter while they where replacing the Mech.

Maybe thats why ur DSG has a Clicking sound, Maybe a piece of debris fell in the DSG trans. since they left a dirty filter on the DSG trans when they should have replaced it.

I always Replace any type of flters when changing the fluids that run threw them. Just common sense really, but sounds like they where being a bunch cheap azzes

[helement2003]

Maybe thats why ur DSG has a Clicking sound, Maybe a piece of debris fell in the DSG trans. since they left a dirty filter on the DSG trans when they should have replaced it.

Except that nothing could have fallen in, since the filter wasn't removed.

Also, the filter still had 16k miles of life left on it when the fluid was swapped. Not like it was a dirty, overused filter.

[helement2003]

Sounds like the Dealer messed up since they should have replaced the filter when they did the Mech. replacement, so maybe u can talk into the Dealer to do the next DSG service filter and fluid for free since they forgot to replace the filter while they where replacing the Mech.

Per the guy I talked to at VWOA - he says the procedure for the replacement of the mechatronics DOES NOT include replacing the filter (and he was surprised by this). He said some dealers were replacing the filters out of their own dollars, due to feeling like it should be done with the fluid swap.

[petef]

Don't shed a tear for the VW dealers - many of us paid good money to have the DSG filter replaced when the recall work was done since VWoA didn't specify this should be done at the same time.

This forum has saved my butt so many time from VW and dealer stupidity I can't count.

If this continues I'm going to say to h#ll with Volkswagen and trade for something Japanese or American...or maybe something from Korea. Anything for an even break...

[helement2003]

Don't shed a tear for the VW dealers - many of us paid good money to have the DSG filter replaced when the recall work was done since VWoA didn't specify this should be done at the same time.

Oh I don't feel bad for them. Had this been my car when the mech was swapped, I would have gladly paid for the filter.

[Slave IV]

Don't shed a tear for the VW dealers - many of us paid good money to have the DSG filter replaced when the recall work was done since VWoA didn't specify this should be done at the same time.

This forum has saved my butt so many time from VW and dealer stupidity I can't count.

If this continues I'm going to say to h#ll with Volkswagen and trade for something Japanese or American...or maybe something from Korea. Anything for an even break...

Just wanted to reiterate how great this community has been and you guys definitely gave me a great tip about having my filter replaced when I had my Mech recall work done...Thanks!

Also, why would you punish yourself by going with an American or Japanese car just because the VW dealerships suck? Sure there are some good American and Japanese cars out but they really don't compare in overall package of quality, safety and technology. People here always joke around or get upset when I mention it but there is a reason why I keep mentioning that you really shouldn't be going to dealerships for service unless you have to. And when you do, make sure you do your own research first (easy, with the great community here) and keep a close eye on them. I've been driving German cars for over 20 years and issues like these are unfathomable to me.

[petef]

If we all had access to German mechanics this wouldn't be a topic. German mechanics are unique in all the world.

They're educated in a formal system that runs in parallel with traditional universities and is highly regulated by the government and industry. So far Germany hasn't abandoned the concept of apprenticeship with a master technician after leaving school. Technical trades are highly respected and very well paid in Germany - moreso than in most places - so more of the best and brightest candidates end up there. And last but not least - VW tech manuals are written in Germany by Germans for Germans. Ja!

Then there's cultural bias - German engineers can't help but design cars that require an 'average' German skill level for repairs and maintenance. They're immersed in the German way of doing things and think in those terms.

I really don't want a different car - I want a German mechanic.

[Slave IV]

If we all had access to German mechanics this wouldn't be a topic. German mechanics are unique in all the world.

They're educated in a formal system that runs in parallel with traditional universities and is highly regulated by the government and industry. So far Germany hasn't abandoned the concept of apprenticeship with a master technician after leaving school. Technical trades are highly respected and very well paid in Germany - moreso than in most places - so more of the best and brightest candidates end up there. And last but not least - VW tech manuals are written in Germany by Germans for Germans. Ja!

Then there's cultural bias - German engineers can't help but design cars that require an 'average' German skill level for repairs and maintenance. They're immersed in the German way of doing things and think in those terms.

I really don't want a different car - I want a German mechanic.

Haha, great post and points...These are some of the reasons why I think it's so important to find a good mechanic who at least understands the differences in German design if you can't find a genuine German mechanic. The typical dumbass (using a term that has been brought up here recently) that the dealerships hire fresh out of school for as low as they can get away paying them, has no idea what they are really getting into and are far from "qualified" to be working on anyone's German car. Even seasoned veterans who might be masters at fixing American or Japanese cars might not do so well when it comes to German engineering. Too bad so many people just don't seem to get this fact and let their cars and their wallets suffer because of it.

[petef]

Too bad so many people just don't seem to get this fact and let their cars and their wallets suffer because of it.

I disagree - on some level most German car owners know they need excellent mechanics. The problem is on the supply side...

If you surf other forums it's obvious its damn hard to find a good German car mechanic for any make - Audi, Porsche, Mercedes - you name it. There's typically 'one guy' in the entire city who can make the cars run right and he's booked 3 months out.

Totally unacceptable for the dealers/manufacturers to drop the ball on such a large scale, esp. with the prices they charge.

Here's a true story:

A 'long' time ago I went on a field trip to the local Porsche dealer in Denver as part of "Career Week" at my school. In addition to checking out the kick-ass vehicles we got to talk with the mechanics. Almost every one of them spoke with a heavy German accent, ja?

Try finding that today...

[VWNDAHS]

odd, when i contacted VWoA they informed me it was at the mechanics discretion depending on the quality of the fluid...

[Slave IV]

I am on other forums and I haven't seen as many people with service issues as I have here. Like I said, I've been driving German cars for over 20 years and I've always been able to find a competent mechanic for VW, Audi and Benz (I've never owned a BMW and probably never will and Porsches will come later and I already have several good mechanics to choose from for those). I guess I'm lucky being in LA because I have several choices and scheduling has never been an issue for me at the one shop I choose to go to either. I know of great shops in several other areas as well but I agree that some people might be out of luck if they just don't have anyone. In that case, it would be smart to do some research before spending $30k+ on a car that you might not be able to get reliable service for. In the end, it's all about making informed decisions and I can't have too much sympathy for those who do things blindly, get screwed because of it later and whine about it like it was someone else's fault for the decision they made. This might not be the case for some people here and I'm not directing that towards anyone but it definitely happens all the time. Anyways, good discussion, thanks.

I disagree - on some level most German car owners know they need excellent mechanics. The problem is on the supply side...

If you surf other forums it's obvious its damn hard to find a good German car mechanic for any make - Audi, Porsche, Mercedes - you name it. There's typically 'one guy' in the entire city who can make the cars run right and he's booked 3 months out.

Totally unacceptable for the dealers/manufacturers to drop the ball on such a large scale, esp. with the prices they charge.

Here's a true story:

A 'long' time ago I went on a field trip to the local Porsche dealer in Denver as part of "Career Week" at my school. In addition to checking out the kick-ass vehicles we got to talk with the mechanics. Almost every one of them spoke with a heavy German accent, ja?

Try finding that today...

[Ripdubski]

Sounds like the Dealer messed up since they should have replaced the filter when they did the Mech. replacement,

filter is not part of mech replacement. Many of us opted to pay the additional cost to have it done while the mech was being replaced with new fluid anyway.