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    Thread: Now that the CR-Z is basically a failure how would you have designed it?

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      04-27-2012 07:16 PM #1
      I'm just taking a guess here that Honda's CR-Z is below Honda's sales expectations now. One of the main reasons I believe this is because I was around back in the days of the CRX, even bought one and back in the day you couldn't go anywhere without spotting one, unlike the CR-Z I can't even remember the last time I spotted one on the roads. My guess is they must be all over California So anyhow let's say Honda appointed one of us to design a new car inspired by the CRX, I'm wondering what would you do differently than Honda did this time around? I was thinking about making this a poll but I don't want that to get in the way of any creativity here that wouldn't cover my choices in the poll.

      Anyhow, my idea for the new CRZ would be something similar to the original CRX's.

      - My entry level model would include a small engine, possibly something around 1300cc and like all my CRZ's would have a choice of stick or automatic trannies.

      - Mid level would use the same 1300cc and a hybrid power train or whatever it takes to beat Prius MPG, keeping the weight down is one plan of attack.

      -While upper level could use the 1500cc + some kind of forced induction, even if I can't picture Honda using a supercharger.

    2. Member TetsuoShima's Avatar
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      04-27-2012 07:17 PM #2
      I thought they were going to make an "SI" or whatever version of it with a completely petrol engine pushing ~200hp or was this some sort of dream I had?

    3. 04-27-2012 07:25 PM #3
      I would have ignored the entire hybrid thing and went with a K20a and decent suspension.

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      04-27-2012 07:27 PM #4
      Quote Originally Posted by TetsuoShima View Post
      I thought they were going to make an "SI" or whatever version of it with a completely petrol engine pushing ~200hp or was this some sort of dream every honda enthusiast ever had?
      FTFY. And seriously.

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      04-27-2012 07:28 PM #5
      I'd make it mod/race ready. Provide an option to order it as a stripper, and with composite body panel portfolio that's not just hood/rockers/bumpers. Make it a dream platform for modders and ricers.
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      never thought once to use my lefty for the brake. sorry in my opinion it is dumb.

    6. 04-27-2012 07:30 PM #6
      That's 2 strikes in a row; the Insight and this CR-Z.

      Some heads have to roll.
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    7. Moderator EPilot's Avatar
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      04-27-2012 07:30 PM #7
      A backseat would have sold that car for me. It would have been perfect for me and my 4 year old.

    8. Member Arju's Avatar
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      04-27-2012 07:41 PM #8
      Separate trim levels:

      - base model 6spd/auto, no hybrid drivetrain
      - hybrid model 6spd/auto
      - SI model 6spd/LSD/K20

      I would stay away from force induction, most potential customers who want a performance variant probably prefer N/A throttle response.
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    9. 04-27-2012 07:45 PM #9
      This:
      Quote Originally Posted by Arju View Post
      Separate trim levels:

      - base model 6spd/auto, no hybrid drivetrain
      - hybrid model 6spd/auto
      - SI model 6spd/LSD/K20

      I would stay away from force induction, most potential customers who want a performance variant probably prefer N/A throttle response.


      But especially this:

      Quote Originally Posted by Arju View Post
      - SI model 6spd/LSD/K20

    10. 04-27-2012 07:45 PM #10
      Skip the hybrid nonsense except for a modern variant of the CRX HF. Hybrid in that model and that model only.

      So then it's dead simple:
      Base - Standard Civic engine and transmission
      SI - Civic SI engine and transmission
      HF - Civic Hybrid engine and transmission

      And this is almost exactly how it was in the old days, too. No, there was no hybrid, but the original HF's lean-burn engine doesn't play nice with today's emission standards, so the hybrid will do.

      And I would have put in the back seats and seat belts. It's sold in other markets with those seats, why not here? Sure they're not good for adults, but this way the car is not a complete non-starter for a young family with small kids (which it is now).

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      04-27-2012 07:46 PM #11
      Interesting graph I found:


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      04-27-2012 07:47 PM #12
      I think everyone here is in agreement. Make a 200+ hp SI version without the hybrid drivetrain. It's basically the same reason the Insight was such an epic failure. If people wanted crappy 2 passenger hybrid, Toyota would've already made it for the American market.
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      04-27-2012 07:50 PM #13
      Sporty hybrid just didn't sing well enough with customers I think? Personally I think a sport version of one would of had some promise for enthusiast. As far as mainstream customers I think the lack of a backseat and subpar in class fuel milage was really the main blame.
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      04-27-2012 07:52 PM #14
      Honda is retarded. In Canada, the base model can be had in either white or red. If you get the Premium Package, it can only be had in black. WTF?

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      04-27-2012 07:54 PM #15
      Quote Originally Posted by EPilot View Post
      A backseat would have sold that car for me. It would have been perfect for me and my 4 year old.
      Me and my 5yo agree with you. So, I went the other way and got 2+2 that isn't fuel efficient.
      zoom-zoom

    16. Member Khyron's Avatar
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      04-27-2012 07:56 PM #16
      Same formula as the FRS/BRZ - give it a backseat for a pinch/kids, a hatch, and some 180-200 hp motor, and NO HONDA REV-HANG.

    17. Member VertigoGTI's Avatar
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      04-27-2012 08:10 PM #17
      Hybrids are usually for practical people.

      2 seaters usually aren't.

      Do your homework, Honda.
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      04-27-2012 08:15 PM #18
      Personally, I would leave the current version as is, but add a performance version with 50 more hp. And redesign the taillights.



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    19. Member Arju's Avatar
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      04-27-2012 08:16 PM #19
      The CR-Z always came across as an engineer's awesome idea that died in the boardroom.

      I also agree with the lack of seating. Everything in the marketplace at the price-point has seating for 4!
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    20. Member bmann's Avatar
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      04-27-2012 08:19 PM #20
      Quote Originally Posted by Arju View Post
      The CR-Z always came across as an engineer's awesome idea that died in the boardroom.

      I also agree with the lack of seating. Everything in the marketplace at the price-point has seating for 4!
      Agreed. There's nothing wrong with the car itself, per se. There is just no market for 2-seaters now - as you can see by most of the posts in this thread.
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      04-27-2012 08:23 PM #21
      Quote Originally Posted by Inspector Detector View Post
      My guess is they must be all over California
      All over California they are not, at least not SoCal. While I don't drive around LA with a 100-mile commute, I've only seen one. Come to think of it, I don't think I've even seen a commercial for it...and Honda does a ton of car commercials. I bet they could sell a few more if they did some marketing for it.

    22. Member FiveAinOne's Avatar
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      04-27-2012 08:27 PM #22
      I do 75 miles commute in SoCal, up and down the 405. I've seen quite a few of them. Perhaps sometimes it's the same one, but I'd say I see one or two every week.

    23. Banned Chris Stack's Avatar
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      04-27-2012 08:36 PM #23
      There's nothing wrong with that car that a 200hp k20/6Mt +LSd wouldn't fix. If you need a backseat, buy a Civic Si coupe.

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      04-27-2012 08:37 PM #24
      Quote Originally Posted by EPilot View Post
      A backseat would have sold that car for me. It would have been perfect for me and my 4 year old.
      Yea, as long as your 4-year old has no legs.

      It desperately needed a proper sporting, non-hybrid version. That alone would have made it a worthwhile endeavour for me.

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      04-27-2012 08:46 PM #25
      It's a failure because it does nothing well. It's not sporty enough, Honda's hybrid tech fails. Many non-hybrids get better Mpg and more HP.

      The reason the new Prius C does well because it's a good hybrid with a touch of sportiness and it's cheap.

    26. Member dieselraver's Avatar
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      04-27-2012 08:52 PM #26
      usable back seat for kids.
      200hp engine from Si.

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      04-27-2012 08:52 PM #27
      Quote Originally Posted by Oliver@triplezoom View Post
      Honda is retarded. In Canada, the base model can be had in either white or red. If you get the Premium Package, it can only be had in black. WTF?
      Those were the only colors I could choose from when I purchased my CRX Si. I picked white at the time.

    28. Member nickthaskater's Avatar
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      04-27-2012 08:55 PM #28
      Quote Originally Posted by dieselraver View Post
      usable back seat for kids.
      200hp engine from Si.
      ...Just buy an Si? Nothing wrong with a 2-seater in my eyes.

    29. Member TetsuoShima's Avatar
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      04-27-2012 09:00 PM #29
      i always loved the backend of the concept version:


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      04-27-2012 09:03 PM #30
      Quote Originally Posted by phryxis View Post
      Interesting graph I found:

      It shows the sales collapse after the tsunami, and the very slow recovery. Civic inventories didn't recover until Sept/Oct -- and those were a priority.

      A non-hybrid version is the only fix I'd make.
      :gift:

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      04-27-2012 09:25 PM #31
      Quote Originally Posted by TetsuoShima View Post
      i always loved the backend of the concept version:

      The concept was beautiful. I remember when they first told me that it was going to be a hybrid 70 to 100 MPG flashed through my head at the time, since I thought it would beat the CRX HF at its game. Oh was I wrong

    32. Member someguy123's Avatar
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      04-27-2012 09:36 PM #32
      I'd be interested if they slashed $10k off the price with a 15-year hybrid battery warranty.

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      04-27-2012 09:38 PM #33
      Quote Originally Posted by Arju View Post
      Separate trim levels:

      - base model 6spd/auto, no hybrid drivetrain
      - hybrid model 6spd/auto
      - SI model 6spd/LSD/K20

    34. Member dieselraver's Avatar
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      04-27-2012 09:38 PM #34
      Quote Originally Posted by nickthaskater View Post
      ...Just buy an Si? Nothing wrong with a 2-seater in my eyes.

      either you need better glasses or you considered the Aztek to be a sexy machine


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      04-27-2012 09:41 PM #35
      The CR-Z would've been great if it had a more powerful motor.

      There are other things too though, like the lack of a back seat. Look, a 2 seater is fine, but the way they executed it is retarded. It looks like they originally planned to have 2 back seats, but at the last second said, you know what? **** it. I mean just look at it, it looks like they literally had cussions there and then just took them off.... There's even a back rest that folds down I am pretty sure in other countries it does have a back seat... so why not here? There's room for 2 people back there if the front passengers aren't all the way back. It's just stupid how they designed it. Or just don't have the back seat but make the whole area behind the front seats flat or something. I don't really know....



      here's the CR-Z from a different market. You could squeeze 2 people back there, it would suck, but it could be done.

      Last edited by mike02467; 04-27-2012 at 09:54 PM.

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