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    Thread: Best "fast sports sedan, or 2+2 grand tourer, or 2+2 sports coupe with 4 seats around $50k-$60k

    1. Member firstorbit84's Avatar
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      04-29-2012 03:27 PM #1
      Hey guys, I'm looking to see what TCL says is the best sports car with 4 seats for around $50-$60k?

      Other criteria besides price and seating capacity: comfortable, reliable, and fun daily driver; excellent performer at weekend auto-x, track day or drag strip visit, 4-doors not necessary, but would be a plus....

      Basically, I'm thinking about my next car that will be 4-5 years down the road. So, I'm figuring that cars in the $50-$60k range now will have solid examples that are easily be attainable in the $20-$30k range in another 4-5 years.

      My initial thoughts go to Nissan GT-R, Porsche 911, M3 (coupe or sedan), CTS-V (coupe or sedan), C63, Audi S4 or S5.... what are your thoughts on these, or is there anything else I'm forgetting or overlooking???
      "If your car 'feels like it's on rails,' then you're going too slow."

    2. Member vespoli's Avatar
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      04-29-2012 03:36 PM #2
      Do you plan on actually using the back seats to transport anyone other than double amputees for any appreciable distance? Because that would be a prime decider for some of the cars with token backseats.

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      04-29-2012 03:40 PM #3
      Quote Originally Posted by firstorbit84 View Post
      Hey guys, I'm looking to see what TCL says is the best sports car with 4 seats for around $50-$60k?

      Other criteria besides price and seating capacity: comfortable, reliable, and fun daily driver; excellent performer at weekend auto-x, track day or drag strip visit, 4-doors not necessary, but would be a plus....

      Basically, I'm thinking about my next car that will be 4-5 years down the road. So, I'm figuring that cars in the $50-$60k range now will have solid examples that are easily be attainable in the $20-$30k range in another 4-5 years.

      My initial thoughts go to Nissan GT-R, Porsche 911, M3 (coupe or sedan), CTS-V (coupe or sedan), C63, Audi S4 or S5.... what are your thoughts on these, or is there anything else I'm forgetting or overlooking???
      So, is the next four to five years not enough time to do your own research?

      Planning on resurrecting this thread in five years time to remind yourself what your decision was all those years ago?

    4. Member vasillalov's Avatar
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      04-29-2012 03:40 PM #4
      E90 m3

    5. Member firstorbit84's Avatar
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      04-29-2012 04:12 PM #5
      Quote Originally Posted by vespoli View Post
      Do you plan on actually using the back seats to transport anyone other than double amputees for any appreciable distance? Because that would be a prime decider for some of the cars with token backseats.
      Backseat will be for small children only.



      Quote Originally Posted by CBJ View Post
      So, is the next four to five years not enough time to do your own research?

      Planning on resurrecting this thread in five years time to remind yourself what your decision was all those years ago?
      There is plenty of time. I just want a clearer vision of what my future will look like.

      And yes I may dig up this thread 5 years from now
      "If your car 'feels like it's on rails,' then you're going too slow."

    6. 04-29-2012 04:23 PM #6
      IS-F

    7. 04-29-2012 04:41 PM #7
      C63 AMG or E92 M3
      @WhiteOnRice25

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      04-29-2012 04:47 PM #8
      False. Sports cars only have 2 seats.

    9. Member 71DubBugBug's Avatar
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      04-29-2012 04:49 PM #9
      do people really consider the 911 a 4 seater?

      probably going to be looking at s4s, m3s, and mercedes amg, maybe the e63 will drop to that point by then?

    10. Member BRZ's Avatar
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      04-29-2012 04:54 PM #10


    11. Member Internal Combustion's Avatar
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      04-29-2012 05:05 PM #11
      2013 GT500 hands down
      Quote Originally Posted by Doug Butabi View Post
      Moderators: lock it up. TCL is not worthy of this thread.

      Lock it or ban me, because one of us has to go.

      335- 12.2@115

    12. Member firstorbit84's Avatar
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      04-29-2012 05:22 PM #12
      Would consider the GT500 for sure, but not the Camaro.

      I guess the 911 back seat is kind of a joke.

      I showed my wife the list and she's partial to the GTR (because she loved her Sentra). Anyone know how usable the rear seat is on it?

      The E63 would be baller, but definitely won't be good at an auto-x.
      "If your car 'feels like it's on rails,' then you're going too slow."

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      04-29-2012 05:31 PM #13
      Quote Originally Posted by firstorbit84 View Post
      I showed my wife the list and she's partial to the GTR (because she loved her Sentra). Anyone know how usable the rear seat is on it?

    14. 04-29-2012 05:35 PM #14
      Do people really buy $50-60k sports sedans based on their auto-x ability? Seems to me that would rank just slightly above whether the rear windows had auto-up.
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    15. 04-29-2012 05:37 PM #15
      Quote Originally Posted by firstorbit84 View Post

      I showed my wife the list and she's partial to the GTR (because she loved her Sentra).
      Lol.....sometimes you can't make this place up.

      That was good for a chuckle.

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      04-29-2012 05:44 PM #16
      Quote Originally Posted by C4 A6 View Post
      False. Sports cars only have 2 seats.

      If you want to go old school, they don't have fixed roofs, either.

      In terms of real-world usable rear seats and driving dynamics, the answer is BMW M3. Not that there aren't other good cars, but there's a reason it's the car to beat in this segment.
      "Motorcycles - the cigarettes of transportation." Seth Meyers

    17. Member firstorbit84's Avatar
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      04-29-2012 06:06 PM #17
      Quote Originally Posted by epbrown View Post
      In terms of real-world usable rear seats and driving dynamics, the answer is BMW M3. Not that there aren't other good cars, but there's a reason it's the car to beat in this segment.
      Yeah, i think the m3 may come out on top just because of real-world everyday practicality...

      Although, It seems like the torque on the M3 is kinda low, and peak HP RPM is nose-bleed high... these kinda make me want to lean towards the GT500... but then I go and read reviews of how harsh the suspension is, how the quality of the interior could be better, and how the steering wheel doesn't even telescope! come on ford, seriously?
      "If your car 'feels like it's on rails,' then you're going too slow."

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      04-29-2012 10:00 PM #18
      Quote Originally Posted by firstorbit84 View Post
      Yeah, i think the m3 may come out on top just because of real-world everyday practicality...

      Although, It seems like the torque on the M3 is kinda low, and peak HP RPM is nose-bleed high... these kinda make me want to lean towards the GT500... but then I go and read reviews of how harsh the suspension is, how the quality of the interior could be better, and how the steering wheel doesn't even telescope! come on ford, seriously?
      M3 is geared aggressive, so it makes up for lack of torque. Get it with DCT and you won't be caught with your pants down when you need acceleration.

    19. 04-29-2012 10:04 PM #19
      [QUOTE=firstorbit84;77148063]Backseat will be for small children only.

      so you're gonna waste $50k for a car you'll use for only a few yrs ?

      sports sedan for you

    20. 04-29-2012 10:05 PM #20
      Lotus Evora

      Most of the cars mentioned on this thread so far may be fast cars, but they are not sports cars.


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      04-29-2012 10:06 PM #21
      I think my first choice would be the CTS-V. Evora close behind. Trailing behind that, mostly because it's unknown territory, is the new Mustang that's due to arrive in 2014. If Ford keeps it up, I just see that car getting even better. And with what we've heard about it so far, I can't really imagine it being a disappointment.

    22. Member compy222's Avatar
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      04-29-2012 10:08 PM #22
      CTS-V. Get the wagon!
      Quote Originally Posted by capsaicin View Post
      AP1 S2000? I can not in good conscience talk you out of that. May your slip angle be great and your bed not be the couch!

    23. 04-29-2012 10:09 PM #23
      A B8 Audi S4 would be a good choice. It can fit 5 people and is one of the fastest sport sedans you can buy under 60k. I have driven one and it has to be one of the best handling cars I have driven. It has so much grip that you can push the car hard through turns without having to worry about losing traction.

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      04-29-2012 10:11 PM #24

    25. Member Kandiru's Avatar
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      04-29-2012 10:19 PM #25
      Quote Originally Posted by 50fridge View Post
      A B8 Audi S4 would be a good choice. It can fit 5 people and is one of the fastest sport sedans you can buy under 60k. I have driven one and it has to be one of the best handling cars I have driven. It has so much grip that you can push the car hard through turns without having to worry about losing traction.
      Amen bro! Never before in the US could one spend 49k for a new 5 person car with 0-60 in 4.8s with AWD and eLSD(rear diff in Audi lingo) that will drive great in all season and be luxurious too. As my sig shows i have had them all, R32, V60R, Turbo X, and now this car, which makes the rest look diminutive by comparison. A real beast in sheep's clothing, love mine!!!

      A great cheaper alternative would be the 5 door Golf R, another finely appointed and fun to drive daily Haldex AWD car. Haldex IMHO with eLSD is a slightly better than Quattro, but the the added ponies in the S4 must be at least partly responsible.

      For Southern climates without rear winters the BMW M3 is still the machine.
      Last edited by Kandiru; 04-29-2012 at 10:22 PM.

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      04-29-2012 10:27 PM #26
      Quote Originally Posted by firstorbit84 View Post
      Yeah, i think the m3 may come out on top just because of real-world everyday practicality...

      Although, It seems like the torque on the M3 is kinda low, and peak HP RPM is nose-bleed high... these kinda make me want to lean towards the GT500... but then I go and read reviews of how harsh the suspension is, how the quality of the interior could be better, and how the steering wheel doesn't even telescope! come on ford, seriously?
      Are people serious with this stuff? So now the judge of buying a car is not having to rev it at all?

      I swear some people on a car forum sound like old ladies. Wah, I don't want to rev my engine. Wah. I don't want my V8 to sing to 8K RPM. Wah.

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      04-29-2012 10:29 PM #27
      Quote Originally Posted by Kandiru View Post
      Haldex IMHO with eLSD is a slightly better than Quattro. . .
      Would love to hear your thoughts on this! In comparison to Torsen, I think Haldex gets a bad rap due to all the internet bench racers who have driven neither.
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      04-29-2012 10:33 PM #28
      If the wife likes the GT-R, go check it out. It will positively WIPE the floor with any of the other cars listed here in really any aspect. You'll be at the very top end of your budget for an 09 with some miles, but they really are absolutely phenomenal cars. My favorite one to date, actually.
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      04-29-2012 10:34 PM #29
      No such thing as a sports car with 4 seats.
      The gloves are off, the wisdom teeth are out
      What you on about ?

    30. Banned Saintor's Avatar
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      04-29-2012 10:36 PM #30
      Quote Originally Posted by The Holy Molar View Post
      E90 M3 is already gone.

      Because 'Best sport car ' placed FUN first. In this regard, 60K$ four seaters-wise, there is none better than E9X with a 8000+ rpm V8.



      335is with its distinctive exhaust note is a close second.

      Last edited by Saintor; 04-29-2012 at 10:51 PM.

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      04-29-2012 10:45 PM #31
      Just went through pretty much the same dilemma. GT-R was out of my price range, M3 gets surprisingly bad gas mileage, CTS-V gets horrible gas mileage and the transmission irks me along with most of the ones I saw not having Recaros. It also just felt big as odd as that sounds. I just couldn't live with the C63's interior or the gas mileage, or the pretty dire handling; tires would probably last 5K at most in that car. The IMS bolt issue on the 911 scared me away (have already replaced the engine in a 996 I used to own) and you also get a lot less for your money with the 911 equipment wise. Didn't want a 4 door so the S4 was out.

      I ended up with an S5 and love it. But, you might as well forget about the back seats even for children, they're just not practical. The S5 has its issues like carbon buildup, numb steering, and suspension related woes so in a few years when CPO is out of the question it might not be such a good choice. I pretty much ended up with the best looking car out of the bunch IMO with an amazing interior and all the bells and whistles. I see 25MPG (I have an hour commute each way) driving normally on the freeway and it's fun to drive when you bury the throttle.

      I was also looking at the Jaguar XFR, BMW M5, Audi S6, and Aston Martin V8 vantage. The Vantage was more of a pipe dream and I really couldn't afford to run it, let alone buy it. I never managed to find a good example of the others locally so didn't get any opinion of them.


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      04-29-2012 11:45 PM #33
      Quote Originally Posted by UFO007 View Post
      Just went through pretty much the same dilemma. GT-R was out of my price range, M3 gets surprisingly bad gas mileage, CTS-V gets horrible gas mileage and the transmission irks me along with most of the ones I saw not having Recaros. It also just felt big as odd as that sounds. I just couldn't live with the C63's interior or the gas mileage, or the pretty dire handling; tires would probably last 5K at most in that car. The IMS bolt issue on the 911 scared me away (have already replaced the engine in a 996 I used to own) and you also get a lot less for your money with the 911 equipment wise. Didn't want a 4 door so the S4 was out.

      I ended up with an S5 and love it. But, you might as well forget about the back seats even for children, they're just not practical. The S5 has its issues like carbon buildup, numb steering, and suspension related woes so in a few years when CPO is out of the question it might not be such a good choice. I pretty much ended up with the best looking car out of the bunch IMO with an amazing interior and all the bells and whistles. I see 25MPG (I have an hour commute each way) driving normally on the freeway and it's fun to drive when you bury the throttle.

      I was also looking at the Jaguar XFR, BMW M5, Audi S6, and Aston Martin V8 vantage. The Vantage was more of a pipe dream and I really couldn't afford to run it, let alone buy it. I never managed to find a good example of the others locally so didn't get any opinion of them.


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    33. Member firstorbit84's Avatar
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      04-30-2012 12:23 AM #34
      thanks for all the feedback so far folks... I hadn't considered the lotus, and even though I know it will probably be the best track performer, I really don't think it will be comfortable or practical enough on a daily basis.

      I had an A6 4.2 quattro for a while and i really loved it and it stuck like glue... so i will definitely consider the S4, but I was looking at the power numbers of the supercharged 3.0 and when tuned it doesn't seem to make any more power than a K04'ed 2.0T, am I right?

      I thought the S5 was on the same chassis as the S4?

      Since I don't really need AWD, I think RWD will probably win out...

      the M3 is still looking the best... but I haven't totally checked out the CTS-V though...

      doesn't the M3's DCT have 7 gears?

      I wasn't knocking the fact that it revs to 8k, i am just a bigger fan of low end torque, and not really used to engines revving up that high... it's just something i'd have to get used to... i know it makes a wonderful noise...
      "If your car 'feels like it's on rails,' then you're going too slow."

    34. Member Charolastra's Avatar
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      04-30-2012 01:40 AM #35
      Quote Originally Posted by firstorbit84 View Post
      thanks for all the feedback so far folks... I hadn't considered the lotus, and even though I know it will probably be the best track performer, I really don't think it will be comfortable or practical enough on a daily basis.

      I had an A6 4.2 quattro for a while and i really loved it and it stuck like glue... so i will definitely consider the S4, but I was looking at the power numbers of the supercharged 3.0 and when tuned it doesn't seem to make any more power than a K04'ed 2.0T, am I right?

      I thought the S5 was on the same chassis as the S4?

      Since I don't really need AWD, I think RWD will probably win out...

      the M3 is still looking the best... but I haven't totally checked out the CTS-V though...

      doesn't the M3's DCT have 7 gears?

      I wasn't knocking the fact that it revs to 8k, i am just a bigger fan of low end torque, and not really used to engines revving up that high... it's just something i'd have to get used to... i know it makes a wonderful noise...
      OP: I love my C2S to death, but if you are serious about routine rear-seat usage, I'd probably pick an M3 (from the cars in your list). If the rear seats are only for the occasional young child rider (5 yr. old and below), you'd be hard pressed to find a more driver-engaging DD in a 997 C2S (something that would be in your 50-60k price range). I've gotten 25.5 mpgs on the highway (doing ~80 mph), averaging ~18.5 mpgs in 50/50 mixed driving. The E92 M3 should have worse MPGs, but then again, it does have launch control....

      The previously mentioned Carrera IMS issues are more widely prevalent in 2006 and older 997s, so don't let that scare you off* (*surveys on Rennlist indicate that failed IMS has only been an issue in >2% of hundreds of 997s surveyed). MY 2006.5 and up cars have upgraded IMS bearings, and are not as likely to fail. Your $50-60k can buy you a MY 2007+ car, which should make IMS virtually a non-issue.

      Were I in your position (which I was, 6 months ago), I would drive the E92 M3 and 997 back to back prior to making a final call. You can't go wrong with either car, frankly. My $0.02 only....

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