Best "fast sports sedan, or 2+2 grand tourer, or 2+2 sports coupe with 4 seats around $50k-$60k

[Beltfed]

M3 gets surprisingly bad gas mileage,

I ended up with an S5 and love it.

S5 - 14/22
M3 - 14/20

Wouldn't exactly say they're worlds apart, considering the M3 performance wise is in a different category.

[HCsmokey]

Ask again in 4-5 years....will be an interesting new topic.

[speedworks1]

LOL x 2

[UFO007]

S5 - 14/22
M3 - 14/20

Wouldn't exactly say they're worlds apart, considering the M3 performance wise is in a different category.

I'm talking about real world numbers; I see 25 on the highway in the S5. The EPA numbers are similar but if you look at what drivers get there's a difference. Not a huge difference, I admit, but I spend 2 hours a day driving. The cabin, where I also spend 2 hours a day, Is also so much nicer. I just don't like the BMW interiors, as snobbish as that sounds. But, yeah, if I wanted all out performance then it would have been M3 all the way.

[firstorbit84]

I still feel like the s4/s5 would be somewhat underpowered compared to the rest of the considerations, and I really don't see why there's any reason to go with a supercharged 6-cyl when I could get same power from a (tuned k04) turbo 4? (Plus much better fuel economy) especially since i'd already be missing out on the V8 sounds

This same logic would lead me to consider a 335i in addition to the M3.

[Dave Zero]

Sports car = 2 seats, open top, RWD.

A 2+2 might be the closest thing to a sports car you can get if you need 4 seats.

For 50-60K, I can't think of any new.

Used, 911 droptop.

[firstorbit84]

Ok folks, for all of you that have corrected me on the "true" definition of "sports car", I meant "fast sports sedan, or 2+2 grand tourer, or 2+2 sports coupe"

Also, doesn't have to be new.

[Dave Zero]

New

GT500 is the most horsepower you will get for that money.
Challenger SRT-8

Used:

GT-R
997 Carrera
CTS-V Coupe
Lotus Evora

[firstorbit84]

No one has had a chance to review the '13 GT500 yet, tho. I have to imagine that it will have a hard time putting all that power down... at that point I might as well consider the Boss 302 if track times are similar.

[Aseras]

Ok folks, for all of you that have corrected me on the "true" definition of "sports car", I meant "fast sports sedan, or 2+2 grand tourer, or 2+2 sports coupe"

Also, doesn't have to be new.

How about a used Lotus Evora? It's a 2+2.

[[spoon]]

I still feel like the s4/s5 would be somewhat underpowered compared to the rest of the considerations, and I really don't see why there's any reason to go with a supercharged 6-cyl when I could get same power from a (tuned k04) turbo 4? (Plus much better fuel economy) especially since i'd already be missing out on the V8 sounds

This same logic would lead me to consider a 335i in addition to the M3.

A tuned k04 is gonna be like $3000+. A pulley and chip for the S4 will put you over 400hp and set you back about $1000. I also doubt the k04 car would get better mileage but I could be wrong there.

The 335 has the fuel pump issues but is otherwise a nice car.

My top picks would be...
S4, TT-RS, C4S, ZL1, CTS-V (Coupe), M3(coupe), 335is, and AMG63 (C or E).

The GT500 will not be able to put down the power. The old GT500 couldn't, it was actually slower than the 302 Boss Laguna Seca in the C&D Lightning Lap. Ford definitely wins the numbers game but in terms of usability I don't see that happening. This is even more an issue if the weather isn't totally ideal.

[JustinCSVT]

The GT500 will not be able to put down the power. The old GT500 couldn't, it was actually slower than the 302 Boss Laguna Seca in the C&D Lightning Lap. Ford definitely wins the numbers game but in terms of usability I don't see that happening. This is even more an issue if the weather isn't totally ideal.

You want to bet? I think it will acquit itself juuuuust fine.

[zane!]

I love the idea of a Lotus Evora S, but definitely not a 5 or 6 year old car... I'd definitely drive one if it was new or a year old with light use.

[Stereodude]

so i will definitely consider the S4, but I was looking at the power numbers of the supercharged 3.0 and when tuned it doesn't seem to make any more power than a K04'ed 2.0T, am I right?

What numbers are you looking at?

APR's K04 2.0T numbers are imaginary / fictitious crank figures whereas their 3.0T numbers are at the wheels. So, no they don't have the same amount of power.

[rsj0714]

No one has had a chance to review the '13 GT500 yet, tho. I have to imagine that it will have a hard time putting all that power down... at that point I might as well consider the Boss 302 if track times are similar.

The boss is a great car from what I've read, no back seat though if you still care about that.

[firstorbit84]

What numbers are you looking at?

APR's K04 2.0T numbers are imaginary / fictitious crank figures whereas their 3.0T numbers are at the wheels. So, no they don't have the same amount of power.

Sorry, I didn't see that the 3.0T numbers were at the wheels. What do K04 2.0T numbers look like at the wheels??

Didn't the '12 Boss have a rear seat?

[[spoon]]

Sorry, I didn't see that the 3.0T numbers were at the wheels. What do K04 2.0T numbers look like at the wheels??

Didn't the '12 Boss have a rear seat?

I think with a K04 you're looking at around 250 or so tops. Far cry from a chipped 3.0T.

Boss 302 has rear seats, the Laguna Seca edition deletes them...

[deagle]

after watching Mega Factories episode on the the panamera

after 5-6 yrs, it might drop to within your range


got the looks (grew on me after awhile), speed, and 4 (real ) seats for occupants

same performance, but just in a longer wheelbase really

MB, BMW, AUDI are more known for their "luxury", and only enthusiasts know about the performance potential and trims

but one look at the panamera, and you know its a sports car....even w/ 4 doors

[firstorbit84]

I think with a K04 you're looking at around 250 or so tops. Far cry from a chipped 3.0T.

Boss 302 has rear seats, the Laguna Seca edition deletes them...

how does an advertised 366hp/380tq translate to 250whp?

[Stereodude]

What do K04 2.0T numbers look like at the wheels??

I have no idea. APR doesn't disclose the scaling factor they used to arrive at their mystical crank figures.

[[spoon]]

how does an advertised 366hp/380tq translate to 250whp?

I was looking at a different K04 kit. That one has youtube videos and dyno plots showing 300hp with all this done.....
- APR K04 Tune
- APR 3' Downpipe
- Eurojet .:R32 Catback
- K04
- S3 IC
- S3 Injectors
- A.W.E. HPFP
- A.W.E Mechanical DV w/ relocate kit
- Neuspeed CAI
= 313whp



The dealership here will chip and pulley an S4 and still do warranty work. GIAC plot... = 404whp. Stock the car is making about 306.

[deagle]

http://www.ridelust.com/the-best-new...r-50k-or-less/

subaru has 4 seats too

or for slightly more :

http://www.ridelust.com/2012-infinit...delust-review/

[Stereodude]

The dealership here will chip and pulley an S4 and still do warranty work. GIAC plot... = 404whp. Stock the car is making about 306.

That GIAC dyno is suspect. Other people haven't come close to gaining ~30% with the GIAC tune.

[terrabit2001]

The GT500 will not be able to put down the power. The old GT500 couldn't, it was actually slower than the 302 Boss Laguna Seca in the C&D Lightning Lap.

Maybe so, but look what happens when you get someone behind the wheel who knows how to drive it....

Streets of Willow lap records:

1.Nissan GT-R 1:20.25 Randy Pobst
2.Chevrolet Corvette Z06 Z07 Package 1:20.43 Randy Pobst
3.Ferrari 458 Italia 1:22.30
4.Ford Mustang Shelby GT500 1:23.48 Randy Pobst
5.Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 1:23.87

http://www.fastestlaps.com/tracks/wi...of_willow.html

[firstorbit84]

I think the infiniti M56 is going to be just a tad too big, and not as nimble as I'd like... nice car though...

Thanks for posting the track times... shows how great the GT-R really is too..

TT-RS is one of my favorites now too.... love the styling, and seems like it has a little more rear room than the GT-R... i know it has less power than some of the others, but a shorter wheelbase and awd which will be great for auto-x... plus better fuel economy 18/25.... they seem to be pretty exclusive right now though... what do you guys think the chances are of a TT-RS being under $30k in 5 years??

[[spoon]]

Maybe so, but look what happens when you get someone behind the wheel who knows how to drive it....

Streets of Willow lap records:

1.Nissan GT-R 1:20.25 Randy Pobst
2.Chevrolet Corvette Z06 Z07 Package 1:20.43 Randy Pobst
3.Ferrari 458 Italia 1:22.30
4.Ford Mustang Shelby GT500 1:23.48 Randy Pobst
5.Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 1:23.87

http://www.fastestlaps.com/tracks/wi...of_willow.html

And you put the ZR1 with some unknown. Without the same drivers or at least someone with some experience it's not a great comparison. About the only car accessible to the majority of people here would be the GTR. The ZR1, GT500, ZL1, etc etc aren't turn key blisteringly fast cars.

[someguy123]

@ that guy that bought a S5 because the M3 gets "bad gas mileage".

[chrisyoon]

C63. But I'm a little bit biased of course. I thought the lack of a LSD would for sure ruin the handling but I can attest that it really isn't a factor until you really Really push it. Rear tires are an issue with the stock pirellis but my PS2's are actaully holding up very well for 5000 miles on them. Gas mileage is dismal but can you say over 400 ft lbs of torque? Drivability is why I love it as my DD, aka torque. No matter what gear or speed you're churning at, there is INSTANT power. Nothing else I have driven comes close to **** eating grin status including the few secs of cold starts in the morning.

Now. Having cross shopped the others, the M3 was obvious but unless you've spent the seat time in it or even the M5, high revving engines need to be revved... I spent a long time in both the M3 and M5, both manual, and the lack of torque IS noticeable in every day "sports car" driving. They were beautiful sounding motors, esp m5, but putting around at 5 grand just didn't feel natural.

Didn't spend much time in the others (had 2 weeks solid with the m5 and one with the m3) but the isf was way too stiff for me, the e63 was too much monies, and the cts while fun just still didn't have the xfactor.... Maybe it was the damn gm bong bong noise that killed it... The S4 is a fantastic all around car, but really wanted rwd. Also, that car desperatley needed an exhaust. Cant say anything bad about the 335i but like the s4 its almost in a different segment IMO. Never got to touch a mustang bc the wife wouldn't have any of it, and honestly, she loves driving the merc. She states "I feel safer in it bc I can pass and get away from anyone. Anyone."

They're all marvelous cars, they all make beautiful noises, and I went with the biggest baddest engine bc as clarkson put it best, we are approaching the end of an era. Cars like these with no replacement for displacement WILL disappear. I'm just glad I can support the thirstyness of the car now and still enjoy driving the piss out of it.

[Nateblizzy]

How can you plan what car you will own in 5 years? I don't even know what car I will end up with at the end of this year.... So many things can happen in 5 years- I can't imagine planning on owning a car by any certain time, unless I become a billionaire this year and I'm saving for a 760RS.

Do people really plan that far ahead?

[VR6boi65]

IS-F

Even for kids, the rear seats are useless due to the front seats being so big. It's a problem in my mom's 250, and it's even worse in the F with the huge sport seats.

[E34M50]

the XRS version. they are pretty quick and fits your criteria.

[MrKevkevL]

the XRS version. they are pretty quick and fits your criteria.

Really?

[c0mmon]

Pontiac g8 GxP? Dont know if thats a track car though

[c0mmon]

the XRS version. they are pretty quick and fits your criteria.

a BMW driver recommending a toyota economy car. You sir must have some horror stories that totally changed your values in an automobile

[E34M50]

a BMW driver recommending a toyota economy car. You sir must have some horror stories that totally changed your values in an automobile

yea i'm not really into cars.i absolutely hate BMWs and especially MKIV