GFCI wiring question

[Chris Stack]

Probably a stupid question, but I'm having trouble with this. I have a dedicated circuit from my box to my garage, one GFCI outlet with a secondary outlet added on in the same box. I tried to add a third outlet today on the other side of my wall (in the basement) by wiring I as shown below. The existing wiring is the first two boxes, g and r. The new box is the second r (for regular.). They are all 20 A and on a 20A breaker. When I turned it back on, it immediately tripped.

Thoughts?

[rimtrim]

I'm going to guess you just have a short somewhere. Are the outlets in metal boxes? If the boxes are too narrow, the screws that hold the wires down can short against the side of the box. I've seen that done before.

-Andrew L

[barry2952]

You have to pay attention to Line and Load on the GFCI outlet. Line is the incoming pair. Load is the outgoing pair. You can't mix up the neutrals, or it will trip.

I would disconnect the third outlet at the second box and see if the GFCI resets. If it does that narrows it down.

Look for device screws that nick a neutral. That will trip a GFCI, too.

Boxes can be real tight. You can press through the insulation pretty easily jamming all that in a single-gang box. Try pulling all three out of the box and see if it resets.

[rimtrim]

You have to pay attention to Line and Load on the GFCI outlet. Line is the incoming pair. Load is the outgoing pair. You can't mix up the neutrals, or it will trip.

I would disconnect the third outlet at the second box and see if the GFCI resets. If it does that narrows it down.

Look for device screws that nick a neutral. That will trip a GFCI, too.

Boxes can be real tight. You can press through the insulation pretty easily jamming all that in a single-gang box. Try pulling all three out of the box and see if it resets.

I was thinking the OP meant the breaker immediately trips. That's why I wasn't thinking it was a simple mis-wiring of the GFCI circuit. If it's the GFCI that trips, forget my post and read Barry's.

-Andrew L

[barry2952]

I reread what he wrote and it could easily mean the breaker tripped, not the GFCI, like i assumed. If the breaker tripped there probably a pinched wire in the first box, as you said. If it was a pinched wire in the subsequent boxes just the GFCI would trip.

[Chris Stack]

Breaker, in the main box is what tripped. In fact, it tripped as soon as I threw it, and I thought it just slipped out of my hand, so I threw it back and I think it blew. I'll recheck my wiring for shorts and accuracy; I wanted to make sure the general wiring theory was sound.

[barry2952]

It's likely that the bare ground made contact with the hot when you were pushing everything back in the box. If it's a metal box you might have the wire clamped too tight.

[Mk1Racer]

If I read the original post correctly, you have a 2-gang box w/ a GFCI outlet, and a non-GFCI outlet in it. The non-GFCI outlet is wired to the load side of the GFCI outlet. You then pulled an additional wire out of the 2-gang box to another single box that had a non-GFCI outlet.

Prior to adding the 3rd outlet, there were no problems w/ the original 2-gang box w/ the two outlets in it.

Now, you've got a short that trips the main breaker, but not the GCFI outlet.

If that's the case, you created a short of the feed (line side) to the GFCI when you were working in the box.

Can you take a pic of the 2-gang box w/ the plate off?

Honestly though, if you're not sure how to diagnose this problem, maybe you should have a professional do the work for you. Last thing you want to do is burn your house down.

[barry2952]

Update?

[lojasmo]

Update?

Could have dead.

[Chris Stack]

Been busy with work, haven't had time to take it apart again. I'll try it this weekend.

[NYCgolf]

Just to reiterate what others have said. Pull the devices out of the boxes and see if it still trips. Could be the screws touching the box or a ground wire. The last time i did an electrical project i was using exposed work covers and when i when screwing it in place i was pushing the back of one of the screws into the pig tails. The symptom was exactly as you described.

[Chris Stack]

I=idiot, one of the wires had come out of the back of the outlet. All is fixed now.

[barry2952]

Sh!t happens.

[robr2]

I=idiot, one of the wires had come out of the back of the outlet. All is fixed now.

In the future, skip the stab connectors on the back and use the screw terminals. Much better connection for the long term.

[barry2952]

Yes, and always wrap the wire clockwise around the screw.

[Mk1Racer]

In the future, skip the stab connectors on the back and use the screw terminals. Much better connection for the long term.

Yep. Surprised they actually still allow these.

Yes, and always wrap the wire clockwise around the screw.

If you wrap it CCW, it can 'unwind' when you tighten the screw.

Also, it's a good idea to wrap the device w/ electrical tape to cover the terminals.

[barry2952]

Yep. Surprised they actually still allow these.

Only for 14 gauge wire.

I will use the speed wires on switches when I know there's a reasonable load. However. If there's a feed-through to the next device the stab-lock becomes the weak link. Wherever you have a feed through I recommend pig tailing the wire to take the device connections out of the circuit. For the price of a wire nut and 6 inches of wire you're assured a good connection.

[JsnVR6Corrado]

Only for 14 gauge wire.

I will use the speed wires on switches when I know there's a reasonable load. However. If there's a feed-through to the next device the stab-lock becomes the weak link. Wherever you have a feed through I recommend pig tailing the wire to take the device connections out of the circuit. For the price of a wire nut and 6 inches of wire you're assured a good connection.

My opinion is that the wire nut connections and pig tailing is a worse connection than the screw on the side of the receptacle. They are made with 4 connections for the purpose of feeding power down the line.

[barry2952]

You're wrong, but that's OK. It's all about opinions on the internet.

[JsnVR6Corrado]

You're wrong, but that's OK. It's all about opinions on the internet.

Allow me to back to you. Seems I stepped on the godfathers toes. I am usually impressed with your conduct over the internet.

Code only requires pigtails on the grounded conductor (neutral) (2005 NEC 300.13) so it remains uninterrupted down the line. Also why we pigtail the ground (bare coper) wire.

Show me a code reference to requiring pigtails on the "hot". You may be right, but I do not see it in the code which is why I am asking you to point it out.

Edit:...forgot to add this

[barry2952]

It doesn't have to be in the code to be common sense. :roll eyes:

Please reread before you start up again. I never said it was required, but 40 years as a service electrician I've seen hundreds of screw connections fail, but only a handful or wire nut splices go bad. So, if in your mind a few words in a book trump 40 years in the field, keep arguing.

[JsnVR6Corrado]

Here is a photo from a decently reputable site.

[barry2952]

Here is a photo from a decently reputable site.

Whatever. I'll let others point out what a tool you are. Thanks.

[Egilbe]

Be nice, Barry.

[barry2952]

Whatever. I'll let others point out how cool you are. Thanks.

FTFM

[JsnVR6Corrado]

Whatever. I'll let others point out what a tool you are. Thanks.

Thank you for not pointing out the type of tool I am, I will go on with my opinion I am a tool of God...


Back to the OP. Obviously there are multiple ways to wire your receptacle. Glad you got it figured out. Beautiful MS Paint work also.

[Mk1Racer]

Whatever. I'll let others point out what a tool you are. Thanks.