Took the TTRS to the Nürburgring yesterday

[- Jeremy -]

First time on the track with the TTRS. Learned a lot about its strengths and weaknesses. It's a great car and very stable but there are definitely a few things that I need to fix. I left the car stock (except for cat delete pipes) so I could judge any upgrades from there. I ran 8 medium speed laps and captured some videos. The videos didn't turn out great as I was also experimenting with my camera mount. I didn't push it very hard as I'm still getting used to the car. I was running 8:30 laps in my R32 and I was keeping it around a minute slower with the TTRS. The TTRS can easily crank out some 8 minute laps, but I need a lot more seat time to get as comfortable with it as I was with the R32.

So, what needs changing?

1. Brakes: I didn't really believe all of the complaints about the brakes from the Brits, but it's true. The brakes simply do not inspire confidence on the track. I had to brake very early to scrub speed because the pedal becomes a bit mushy when they heat up. I will definitely be changing out the fluid, lines and pads. I will eventually increase the size of the rear rotors. I'm pretty sure I might've warped the rear rotors.

2. Tires: The Toyo's are simply mediocre and they don't inspire confidence. They don't get greasy, but they push wide and understeer at the limit. I'm used to running very aggressive compounds so I'll be putting on some RE-11's or some PSS's.

3. Steering: Steering is actually pretty good and the car tracks well but I want it a little more stable and rotatable so I'm going to install some F&R sway bars and some beefy end links.

4. Seats/Belts: I'll definitely be installing some Schroth Quick Fit harnesses.

5. Downforce: I really wish the car had more downforce at speed, but I don't think this is something that can be fixed without some serious modifications to the car. I don't want to make it ugly, so I'll just live with it.

6. Passengers: Ditch the passenger. They just slow you down

7. Power/Heatsoak: Oil temps ran around 120C on the track and it was a fairly cool day in the mid 60's. The car was quick but not brutal like it normally is. I'm thinking a new intercooler and a tune would help a lot. Especially on hot days.

I forgot to take pics of my car, so here's an old one. A few other TTRS's but I didn't run across any on the track. I did, however, meet the Mclaren on the track. That's one nasty mofo

EDIT: Forgot to mention the tires rubbing the fender liner. I'm on a totally stock setup and was in sport mode every lap and the tires would rub on the fender liner in severe corners with dips and bumps. It was most noticeable on the Karussell.

EDIT: Also forgot to mention fuel. The tank was nearly empty by the end of my 8th lap. That's 103 miles of track driving on 14 gallons; about 8 mpg . I actually ran the last 1/2 of the lap pretty slowly to prevent fuel starvation.











- Jeremy -

[Black BeauTTy]

Not much traffic that day, I'm so jealous! Thanks for sharing it.

[jibbed]

*jealous*

Did the Nurburgring last year with a Sirocco from RentRaceCar... Would have loved to do it in my TTRS though.

Funnily enough - the day I went there, McLaren were actually testing their car (trying to beat the lap record)... They stacked it trying.... Stopped us from getting onto the track by an hour!

RE: Oil Temps.... How many laps did you do in a row (ie - go in and straight back out)? I found when out on the track my temps would pretty quickly rise to 115-118 and then hold steady... Even a blast out through the hills last night saw my temps rise to 113 (and it was 3deg C here).

Don't know about the toyo's - but the PS2's my car came with are excellent. Would definitely buy again.

Cheers,
matt

[- Jeremy -]

Not much traffic that day, I'm so jealous! Thanks for sharing it.

It was actually a pretty busy day but the traffic on the track was never horrendous. A few bad crashes kept it closed for an hour here and there. There was a lot of stuff I didn't catch on camera like a French Ferrari club, a couple of MP4-12C's, 2.7 million Porsche GT3 RS's and the ubiquitous Nissan GT-R's.

Probably going back up on the evening of the 9th because the F1 track will be connected with the Nordschleife for a few hours. I flew my wife's mom out to Germany on that day just so I could go up there for it They only do it 2-3 days per year and only a couple of hours at a time. 25 km of track. Mmmm...

- Jeremy -

[- Jeremy -]

*jealous*

Did the Nurburgring last year with a Sirocco from RentRaceCar... Would have loved to do it in my TTRS though.

Funnily enough - the day I went there, McLaren were actually testing their car (trying to beat the lap record)... They stacked it trying.... Stopped us from getting onto the track by an hour!

RE: Oil Temps.... How many laps did you do in a row (ie - go in and straight back out)? I found when out on the track my temps would pretty quickly rise to 115-118 and then hold steady... Even a blast out through the hills last night saw my temps rise to 113 (and it was 3deg C here).

Don't know about the toyo's - but the PS2's my car came with are excellent. Would definitely buy again.

Cheers,
matt

I did 3 laps back to back, but the track is so long that it only takes 1/2 a lap to get up to 120. They would flux between 115 and 120. Never saw it get higher than that. But I'm curious to see how high it gets when it's 20+ degrees warmer outside.

- Jeremy -

[mtbscoTT]

Man, they sure like their brightly colored and decorated cars there don't they.

[pal]

For brakes, I would def bleed with Brembo LCF 600+ or Motul RBF 600 and use a real track oriented pad like a Hawk HT-10 or DTC-60 before writing the brakes off. Also, consider stainless lines to prevent rubber line expansion from heat.

As for engine temps, I dont think raising boost before puttig additional cooling aids into place is the best idea.

And I am sure you already know this, more power does not equal better lap times The RS already has a ton of power, Ii would work on the cooling (brakes, engine) and optimizing the lap times before adding more power.

Thanks for sharing - I am very jealous.

[Dr. Bill]

Sounds like fun!

Love that X-Bow - too bad they are so hard to get here in the US.

[- Jeremy -]

Man, they sure like their brightly colored and decorated cars there don't they.

Actually, it's pretty much like the States where EVERYONE drives a silver, black or white car. The Autobahns are nothing but boring colored cars. Track junkies, however, really do like bright cars Some are really out there. I love it!

- Jeremy -

[- Jeremy -]

For brakes, I would def bleed with Brembo LCF 600+ or Motul RBF 600 and use a real track oriented pad like a Hawk HT-10 or DTC-60 before writing the brakes off. Also, consider stainless lines to prevent rubber line expansion from heat.

As for engine temps, I dont think raising boost before puttig additional cooling aids into place is the best idea.

And I am sure you already know this, more power does not equal better lap times The RS already has a ton of power, Ii would work on the cooling (brakes, engine) and optimizing the lap times before adding more power.

Thanks for sharing - I am very jealous.

Yep, I already have some RBF 600 in my garage. I actually bought it before I received the car. I just ordered some Goodridge lines and I'll order the pads right now. Just need to see what's available and what I can get the quickest.

- Jeremy -

[- Jeremy -]

For brakes, I would def bleed with Brembo LCF 600+ or Motul RBF 600 and use a real track oriented pad like a Hawk HT-10 or DTC-60 before writing the brakes off. Also, consider stainless lines to prevent rubber line expansion from heat.

As for engine temps, I dont think raising boost before puttig additional cooling aids into place is the best idea.

And I am sure you already know this, more power does not equal better lap times The RS already has a ton of power, Ii would work on the cooling (brakes, engine) and optimizing the lap times before adding more power.

Thanks for sharing - I am very jealous.

Regarding the pads, I'm pretty sure I've read that the front brakes are the same as a 2010 WRX STI. Is that right? I'm leaning toward the DTC-60's as they're a newer compound with better rotor wear characteristics.

Also, what are the rear pads? The same as the MKV R32, I think?

- Jeremy -

[pal]

Jeremy- I am not sure of the pad shape, but can attest that DTC-60 is an excellent pad- great bite and excellent modulation. I use DTC-60 up front and HT-10 out back on my 4 wheel StopTech BBK (same size rotors at all 4 corners) with the Z4M Coupe to get a little less rear bias and find the setup excellent.

I found the Carbotech XP-10s very grabby and hard to modulate so will not go back to them.

I also found the Brembo LCF-600+ superior to RBF 600 in terms of pedal feel and consistency so have been using that for the last 2 years.

[JohnLZ7W]

Great review and sounds like you had an awesome time. The suspension and steering does seem like it might be more suited to a track than on the back roads. When you've got mostly smooth surface and runoff area it matters less how much detail can be perceived through the wheel. The front end is certainly responsive enough to change direction quickly and the stock haldex controller does get enough power to the back to rotate through tighter turns.

I've also had a bit of rubbing on totally stock suspension and tires/wheels. I'm really surprised that folks running et45 or lower claim they don't get any rubbing.

For cooling you might consider adding an oil cooler. An FMIC is not going to do much to influence the engine operating temperature. There's a ton of space and I think INA engineering has a kit that will work, pretty sure that is what's on Istook's TTRS race car seen here.

[mageus]

JEALOUS!!!

Some thoughts:

- Brakes - Any 2010 STI front pad will work (standard Brembo F40 caliper). Stock pads can't take the heat (literally). I'm sure you didn't warp the rotors - you probably glazed the pads. pal, I actually like the Carbotech's feel. They don't have quite the grabbing power of the stock pads but they also don't fade/glaze as easily. The high end Hawks are supposed to be good pads, but be careful - I hear the dust can etch your wheels if wet.
Any fluid change will do. I use the ATE blue/yellow and it hasn't faded. Lines are optional. I find brake feel fine without them, and they don't do anything to reduce fade.

- Tires - RS-3's FTW! But if you need a combined commuter/track tire, just about any change will be an upgrade.
After about 1/2 wear, the Toyo's get greasy very quickly and are well nigh useless.

- Steering - H&R 22mm works great. Stock end links working fine for me.

- Seats/Belts - Schroth FTW!

- heat - Did you remove the engine bay gasket? Since doing that my temps never go too high.

- tire rub - Was it the front or rear? I trimmed the plastic nub over the rear fender joint. Haven't had rubbing, but I also have smaller track tires. No rubbing with the larger diameter street tires, but I don't drive aggressively while commuting.

- fuel - I'm getting ~8mpg on track days. Nice to know you get the same mileage as an SUV when flat out.


Keep us posted on your outings.

[- Jeremy -]

Photographers everywhere on the track. Maybe I'll actually buy a pic one day...

This is coming up over Flugplatz (airfield) so the suspension is really extended. I always brake hard before it, but if you full throttle up to it, you'll leave the ground. Call me old, but I'd rather not...



- Jeremy -

[LongviewTx]

Old!



and kidding of course.

[R5T]

Yeah saw that.

[R5T]

First time on the track with the TTRS. Learned a lot about its strengths and weaknesses. It's a great car and very stable but there are definitely a few things that I need to fix. I left the car stock (except for cat delete pipes) so I could judge any upgrades from there. I ran 8 medium speed laps and captured some videos. The videos didn't turn out great as I was also experimenting with my camera mount. I didn't push it very hard as I'm still getting used to the car. I was running 8:30 laps in my R32 and I was keeping it around a minute slower with the TTRS. The TTRS can easily crank out some 8 minute laps, but I need a lot more seat time to get as comfortable with it as I was with the R32.

So, what needs changing?

1. Brakes: I didn't really believe all of the complaints about the brakes from the Brits, but it's true. The brakes simply do not inspire confidence on the track. I had to brake very early to scrub speed because the pedal becomes a bit mushy when they heat up. I will definitely be changing out the fluid, lines and pads. I will eventually increase the size of the rear rotors. I'm pretty sure I might've warped the rear rotors.

2. Tires: The Toyo's are simply mediocre and they don't inspire confidence. They don't get greasy, but they push wide and understeer at the limit. I'm used to running very aggressive compounds so I'll be putting on some RE-11's or some PSS's.

3. Steering: Steering is actually pretty good and the car tracks well but I want it a little more stable and rotatable so I'm going to install some F&R sway bars and some beefy end links.

4. Seats/Belts: I'll definitely be installing some Schroth Quick Fit harnesses.

5. Downforce: I really wish the car had more downforce at speed, but I don't think this is something that can be fixed without some serious modifications to the car. I don't want to make it ugly, so I'll just live with it.

6. Passengers: Ditch the passenger. They just slow you down

7. Power/Heatsoak: Oil temps ran around 120C on the track and it was a fairly cool day in the mid 60's. The car was quick but not brutal like it normally is. I'm thinking a new intercooler and a tune would help a lot. Especially on hot days.

- Jeremy -

You don't need bigger rear brakes, but you need much better front brakes for the Nordschleife.
The best and most expensive is the 380mm MOV'IT Ceramics, they fit without any adjustment in/behind the 19" rotor 5 wheel.




The best intercooler upgrade is (with the crash-bar in place) the AWE:
http://www.awe-tuning.com/products/a...tercooler.html

The best is the biggest possible, but that means removing the crashbar.

Another heat problem is the first cat right behind the turbo, remove that and the exhaust temp drops 100º Celsius.

Two other recommended changes are the ARB's:
http://www.carnoisseurdirect.com/hr-...ar-33231-p.asp

and a lower motor mount upgrade with a SuperPro insert



Or



and SuperPro full bush kit.

[R5T]

Another picture.

[R5T]

[joshsmith]

AWESOME!! Very jealous!!

[- Jeremy -]

Yeah saw that.

Thanks, R5T!!! Maybe I'll see you there one day.

- Jeremy -

[YYC Dubber]

5. Downforce: I really wish the car had more downforce at speed, but I don't think this is something that can be fixed without some serious modifications to the car. I don't want to make it ugly, so I'll just live with it.

CarbonWurks is coming out with CF Dive Planes soon.... remains to be seen how tasteful they will look.

R5T:

Which dogbone mount do you recommend?

HPA seems to state the 904-90 is best...hardest compound available, any comment?

Really want to improve shift feel so I think this is a good step along with Dieselgeeks shift kit.

How do you find it helps on the track?

[- Jeremy -]

5. Downforce: I really wish the car had more downforce at speed, but I don't think this is something that can be fixed without some serious modifications to the car. I don't want to make it ugly, so I'll just live with it.

CarbonWurks is coming out with CF Dive Planes soon.... remains to be seen how tasteful they will look.

R5T:

Which dogbone mount do you recommend?

HPA seems to state the 904-80 is best... any comment?

Really want to improve shift feel so I think this is a good step along with Dieselgeeks shift kit.

How do you find it helps on the track?

I'm interested in seeing how the dive planes look, but I really don't want to have to permanently adhere anything to the body work. I wouldn't mind a simple bolt-on splitter or a small aero element under the front of the car. For those that don't know, our cars have 80 lbs. of lift on the front axle and 5 lbs. of lift on the rear axle at 120 mph. That's not much, but I would like to have some positive downforce at speed or at least 0 lift.

I want a dogbone mount as I've done this with my last three cars, but I can't find anything that guarantees me that the standard MKV / MK6 mount will work on the TTRS. Does anyone know for sure? I don't want to do the HPA thing. That looks like a pain in the ass and probably not significantly better.

I've contacted Carbotech regarding suggestions for me. The Hawks look great, but I don't want eat through my rotors quickly as they're super expensive. I'm thinking I'll only need some XP8's or 10's.

I also haven't ordered the H&R sway bars yet because there is so much confusion regarding fitment on the TTRS. H&R's website says "Not for TTRS". It seems like it works for some people but not for others.

By the way, Racingbrake is now offering front and rear two-piece rotors for the stock calipers. They're expensive, but they're nice. http://www.racingbrake.com/category_s/5882.htm

One last thing: I've heard that fitting an Anti-Lift Kit helps significantly and increases the steering feedback that so many people are complaining about. It looks like an easy install and might be worth trying out. EDIT: Hmm. Nevermind. I just read Whiteline's tech paper on the ALK and it really just makes the front end significantly softer.

- Jeremy -

[JohnLZ7W]

One last thing: I've heard that fitting an Anti-Lift Kit helps significantly and increases the steering feedback that so many people are complaining about. It looks like an easy install and might be worth trying out. EDIT: Hmm. Nevermind. I just read Whiteline's tech paper on the ALK and it really just makes the front end significantly softer.

- Jeremy -

Will let you know in a few weeks hopefully... I've got the Superpro bushing kit on order from the UK.

[- Jeremy -]

Does anyone know of a method to disable the brake wear sensor? I thought I saw some guy make a little module that you can plug into it. Maybe there's a VCDS mod?

EDIT: Simple. Cut the wear sensors off the old pads and splice the wires together. Heat shrink the ends to make a little pigtail. Yay.

- Jeremy -

[R5T]

5. Downforce: I really wish the car had more downforce at speed, but I don't think this is something that can be fixed without some serious modifications to the car. I don't want to make it ugly, so I'll just live with it.

CarbonWurks is coming out with CF Dive Planes soon.... remains to be seen how tasteful they will look.

R5T:

Which dogbone mount do you recommend?

HPA seems to state the 904-90 is best...hardest compound available, any comment?

Really want to improve shift feel so I think this is a good step along with Dieselgeeks shift kit.

How do you find it helps on the track?

Insert does his work, the engine got less movement based on throttle usage, and it's a simple install.

[mageus]

- brakes - I like the CT's. For dedicated track pads, I would get XP12s. The XP10s are great, but don't quite cut it for the high-speed braking that the RS is capable of. Also, you'll need a dedicated set of rotors. CT uses a special compound that's not compatible with other pads. And the CT's are really finicky with bedding. You basically have to bed them at the track - street conditions just won't generate enough heat.
For the wear sensor - if you haven't worn past the limit, just tape the ends and ziptie it back on itself (tie it to the brake line). That way, you can go back to stock pads with the sensor if you want.
Those RacingBrake 2-piece rotors look cool. Oh look, they're on sale. Only $1100! Stick with the $400 stockers, they work just fine.

- torque arm insert - I got the Neuspeed. A noticeable difference. Engine response is tighter. Shifts are crisper. Only downside is rougher idle at a stop light (BFD). Best $35 I spent on the car.

- ARB - The H&R 22mm rear has plenty of clearance. Domm complained about the larger Neuspeed bar. I'll try to post pics and a part # when I get home.

- downforce - Jeremy, please get the dive planes. I wish to live vicariously through you.

[R5T]

Dive planes. ???

You all mean Canards, right.

[R5T]

Took the TTRS to the Nürburgring yesterday - Jeremy -

This car is one to watch, Red TT RS in Karussell.

It has 9.5x18" ATS GTR wheels with 275/35R18" Dunlop Direzza DZ03 Semi slicks.
And a FMIC upgrade.

[- Jeremy -]

This car is one to watch, Red TT RS in Karussell.

It has 9.5x18" ATS GTR wheels with 275/35R18" Dunlop Direzza DZ03 Semi slicks.
And a FMIC upgrade.

Hah. That's you? Good looking car!

- Jeremy -

[R5T]

Hah. That's you? Good looking car!

- Jeremy -

Nope not mine, we have Yellow plates overhere.
But that car can give you an idea of wat is possible speed wise.
If you can follow that you on the right track.

[YYC Dubber]

Dive planes. ???

You all mean Canards, right.

I know ..... just quoting exactly how the product is described on the website since they have no pics of it up yet

[mageus]

H&R 22mm rear bar, #71102.

Plenty of clearance.


Installation write-up to come when I get the chance.

[jmofo]

This car is one to watch, Red TT RS in Karussell.

It has 9.5x18" ATS GTR wheels with 275/35R18" Dunlop Direzza DZ03 Semi slicks.
And a FMIC upgrade.

Is this TTRS stock height with stock suspension?