Is it Totaled? air bag deployment inside

[SVTDanny]

Would you really want to buy a car back that randomly explodes it's airbags at you?

[Son]

VW

More like the airbag manufacturer.

[Stereodude]

More like the airbag manufacturer.

Right, so at least two different airbags simultaneously failed.

No, the car decided it was involved in a side impact and fired the airbags. IE: Not the airbag maker(s) fault.

[24vowner]

Is the car on coils? Or super low?

you should know, you've seen this car before (like 5 years ago)

To the OP: Is the car on stock suspension?

The car is on eibach sport springs bought through and installed by VW when the car had less than
10k miles. This was done in 2002. Shocks on the front are stock, rear are koni strt. It has a rear sway bar.

[Rowayton]

The average wholesale value for this car (the maximum cash value an insurance company will pay out to a customer if the car is 'totaled') is a great deal less than what it will cost to have everything repaired and re certified. Insurance companies don't like to spend a dime more than they need to. I think you'll end up with a total. If either VW or your insurance company can prove that you have compromised the air bag system of the car by you modifying or adding something electrical or mechanical to the car your settlement could take quite some time. The real issue in this situation will be seeing who pays for the settlement - your insurance company or VW. You'll likely be stuck on the side lines, watching and waiting, while VW, your insurance company and perhaps a lawyer you might need to hire spend enough money to buy you and yours brand new GTI's as they battle to determine who gets to pay the wholesale value (not a pile of money ) of the car to you . Make sure your deductible and all legal fees are added to your total payout if you end up going to court. You were an accident victim and had nothing to do with what happened. Don't give up that deductible . Hope you come out of this mess with a fair settlement and quickly

[dub01]

Right, so at least two different airbags simultaneously failed.

No, the car decided it was involved in a side impact and fired the airbags. IE: Not the airbag maker(s) fault.

How about the sensor malfunctioned?

(I'm also positive that VW doesn't manufacture the airbag sensors they use.)

[02GTIFREESKIER]

you should know, you've seen this car before (like 5 years ago)

Ooooohhhhh reeeaaalllly? Were you a utahnian?

[Stereodude]

How about the sensor malfunctioned?

(I'm also positive that VW doesn't manufacture the airbag sensors they use.)

Facepalm all you want. These systems are designed so that you don't have a single point failure. A malfunctioning sensor should not cause the airbags to deploy. The ECU in the car that controls the airbags looked at all the available data provided to it and decided to deploy the passenger side airbags. That would be the car deciding to deploy the airbags.

You make it sound like there's a sensor connected directly to the airbag and the sensor went on the fritz and deployed the airbags. That's just not how it works.

[dub01]

Facepalm all you want. These systems are designed so that you don't have a single point failure. A malfunctioning sensor should not cause the airbags to deploy. The ECU in the car that controls the airbags looked at all the available data provided to it and decided to deploy the passenger side airbags. That would be the AIRBAG ECU deciding to deploy the airbags.

You make it sound like there's a sensor connected directly to the airbag and the sensor went on the fritz and deployed the airbags. That's just not how it works.

FTFY

I'm positive VW buys them from an outside supplier too.

[Peloton25]

FTFY

I'm positive VW buys them from an outside supplier too.

Great - so the parts Volkswagen chose to install in their vehicle seem to suck (in this case). Now what's your point?

>8^)
ER

[24vowner]

Ooooohhhhh reeeaaalllly? Were you a utahnian?

Yeah from 06-09. I believe we met at RMR, you had a black GTI and were testing out your water/meth system.

[Son]

You make it sound like there's a sensor connected directly to the airbag and the sensor went on the fritz and deployed the airbags. That's just not how it works.

Do you know for sure? For speedier deployment, at least I'd let the sensor to independently decide when to deploy the bags. At least the side bags which need to be extra fast.

[VW1.8Tsunami]

That sucks man, hope you get it worked out. But I can't help but say.....


Lol VW.

Must be a German thing.

VW

yeah, no. The same thing happens to other brands. Honda immediately comes to mind.

[Sir UNBANNED_GERBIL M.B.]

VW

[speed51133!]

update??

[lagunaroone]

The car is on eibach sport springs bought through and installed by VW when the car had less than
10k miles. This was done in 2002. Shocks on the front are stock, rear are koni strt. It has a rear sway bar.

I don't know how strict VW and other manufacturers are with aftermarket shocks and springs when it comes to covering the damage or accepting fault. I'm sure this has happened with cars that had both factory and aftermarket suspensions.

You would still think that the ride quality/harshness should not affect an impact sensor.

[mhjett]

Like someone else said, when all is said and done you can probably keep the car. The question is whether the insurance company or VW will cover it. If insurance does and they total it, you can probably work a deal to get the car back. If you're handy you can probably source a used airbag and trim parts and fix it up. But hopefully you won't have to and it'll be paid for.

[dub01]

Great - so the parts Volkswagen chose to install in their vehicle seem to suck (in this case). Now what's your point?

>8^)
ER

Point is Stereodude keeps misstating that the car decided to deploy the airbag. The car isn't a single entity. It's made up of many subsystems that do specific tasks. Yes, they communicate, but I find it very improbable something outside the airbag system told the curtain bag to deploy.

I'm not denying that the suppliers VW used for Mk4s were incredibly questionable, that's why I refuse to own a Mk4. You people can keep bashing VW, but they aren't the only car company that has had supplier issues.

I'm done

[Ben.Reilly]

yeah, no. The same thing happens to other brands. Honda immediately comes to mind.

No it doesn't. All other car manufacturers never have problems. EVER!

[TurboMinivan]

^So basically nobody died and thus no recall is issued.

"Now, should we initiate a recall? Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one."

[24vowner]

update??

Talked with VWoA today, I have to take the car to Whicita (130 miles away as the crow flies) and drop it off saturday. They will look the car over monday and then contact me tuesday. I'm sure they will be looking for every reason not to fix it.
The insurance appraiser will be looking at the car thursday.

[AndyG86]

Talked with VWoA today, I have to take the car to Whicita (130 miles away as the crow flies) and drop it off saturday. They will look the car over monday and then contact me tuesday. I'm sure they will be looking for every reason not to fix it.
The insurance appraiser will be looking at the car thursday.

They don't have a local dealership that can look at it? I would be looking to get paid for mileage and time.

[24vowner]

They don't have a local dealership that can look at it? I would be looking to get paid for mileage and time.

That is my LOCAL dealership, country living does have its downsides.

But you did bring up some good points, I should see if they will cover any of the costs of getting there.

[mhjett]

That is my LOCAL dealership, country living does have its downsides.

But you did bring up some good points, I should see if they will cover any of the costs of getting there.

The NHTSA investigation gives you a little negotiation leverage with VWoA. Not to mention it's in VWoA's best interest to be proactive about randomly exploding airbags - think of potential liability, etc. Plus, I would reiterate with VWoA that you are the original owner - if anything, it shows they have the chance to gain favor with a loyal owner.

[xnoitaNx]

Today I learned that MKIV's have side-impact airbags.
didn't realize that...

[spockcat]

Do you know for sure? For speedier deployment, at least I'd let the sensor to independently decide when to deploy the bags. At least the side bags which need to be extra fast.

In the Touareg (2003 and up), there are 6 crash sensors that are connected to the airbag control module, which then sends the signal out to the various airbags and seatbelt pre-tensioners. I would imagine that this car has a similar arrangement.

Whether it was a sensor, airbag control module, chaffed/shorted wiring, or even a severe bump in the road that caused the airbags to deploy is something for an engineer to determine. I doubt this is something that can be determined by users on this forum without seeing the vehicle.

PS: Certainly other manufactures have similar issues. I recall my father telling me years ago of a Porsche that had its airbags deploy at a PCA track event. There wasn't a crash, just hard braking.

[Peloton25]

Here's another interesting link:

http://www.safetyissues.com/magazine...t_airbags2.htm

From the article:

He says the airbags work properly and the 117 complaints represent a fraction of the cars manufactured. "And is it absolutely 100% perfect? No, it's not. But is it going to save lives? Absolutely," Fouladpour said. He says the only mistake Volkswagen made was a customer service one for refusing to pay for some airbag repairs. "When that rare occurrence happens and it wasn't the intention of the airbag than yes we need to reimburse those people absolutely," Fouladpour said.

Story is about 7 years old but at least at one point VW's official policy seems to have been that they should cover the cost of the repairs.

>8^)
ER

[phil123]

Talked with VWoA today, I have to take the car to Whicita (130 miles away as the crow flies) and drop it off saturday. They will look the car over monday and then contact me tuesday. I'm sure they will be looking for every reason not to fix it.
The insurance appraiser will be looking at the car thursday.

VWoA is actually VERY receptive, the ****ing dealers on the other hand WILL try and get every cent from you.

Short story. When my heatercore went in my MK3 about 9ish years ago, VWoA good willed it, but the dealer said the foam kit was going to be $150 bucks. Asked them if the blown heatercore caused it and they said yes, VWoA covered the foam kit also.

[c0r3y.af]

This happened to a friend's Jetta years ago. She drove over a bumpy railroad crossing and suddenly the side curtains deployed. I believe it was fully covered and fixed for free, but at the time the car was fairly new so that may have had something to do with it. Good luck man

[vasillalov]

I don't think the car is totalled. You will need 1 airbag and 1 new seat, and possibly headliner. You can get most of that for cheap.

[feels_road]

This is worth repeating:

ODI also obtained counts of alleged inadvertent side-airbag deployments from peer manufacturers. The data shows that the subject vehicles are not unique in being subject to such allegations. The complaint rate for non-subject individual model vehicles varies widely. The rate for the subject vehicles is comparable to three peer models, each with compact chassis/wheelbases.

[ADeHelian]

^So basically nobody died and thus no recall is issued.

havent you seen fightclub?

Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one.

[Live-Wire]

Can't hurt to have some new air bags in a 12 year old car

I actually asked Volvo this question when I had my 960 (and once before when my dad owned the car). The door jamb sticker indicated airbag and pyrotechnic system inspection/replacement after 10 years. Bring it in, Volvo extended the life another 5 years. Brought it in again after 5 years (when I owned it at 15 years old), and they said good for another 5. Seems that Volvo had been studying their own long term test fleet of sample cars (or buying cars back after 10+ years old when coming in on a dealer trade) and stored airbags and safety systems and randomly testing them.

Apparently they had no failures of the systems, so they gave them a clean bill of health and told dealers to not bother with a replacement unless demanded by an owner. Apparently the airbag/safety system is the best made system in an entire car.

Of course, doesn't mean the VW system is going to be the same - but they most likely are made by the same supplier (there aren't that many). VW and other brand do extensive testing to make sure this type of situation does not happen - but nothing is perfect.

Call VW and see... if not it is repairable. Might be a couple thousand dollars tho. Should not be a write off tho. Usually the car is a write off because it is the damage plus the cost of airbag replacement... You have minimal damage to repair (headliner and inspection of the failed sensor/computer that triggered the malfunction).

[tjl]

The average wholesale value for this car (the maximum cash value an insurance company will pay out to a customer if the car is 'totaled')

Total loss payout is more like retail plus local sales/use tax and pro-rated license ("retail" being actual selling price, not asking price, at local dealers), from what I have seen.

[Spray Junkie]

Not totaled, and I'll bet VWoA will pick up the tab