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    VWVortex


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    Thread: extremly new! and need some experts oppions on a engine purchase

    1. 05-03-2012 02:57 PM #1
      Ok so this is my first post ever and 3 days ago was the first time I have ever taken any interest in a water cooled vw motor. I am a rock crawler guy and a desert racer so 8v vw motor isn't somthing that's common in my world. But I have come accross a 1.8 8v motor for sale with all the adapters and wirring to bolt into my samurai based rock buggy. I will list the spec sheet on the motor and I would like some oppions on the good or bad parts used to build it and how easy or hard it will be to dial in and keep in tune. Also if you guys could give me estimated hp and rpm range I would really appreceaite it.

      1.8 8v german cast block
      Forged crank
      Forged rods
      Lightend flywheel
      Lightend cam gears
      168 grind cam solid lifters big valves
      10.5 to 1 with crommolly rings
      A2 throtle body and intake
      Cis injection
      Duaul outlet exhaust manifold

      Thanks in advance if I left out needed info or I sound stupid keep in mind this is the first time the words vw have left my mouth.

    2. Member AnAgentOrange's Avatar
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      05-03-2012 04:28 PM #2
      I'm going to need a little correction I'm sure, but by my eye, I see around 115-120 crank hp. Maybe a hair more.

      Curious as to the price range of what he's trying to get from it? Info on miles this motor has?

      Oh, pics of the Sammy!!!
      Quote Originally Posted by under the radar View Post
      if you're not into chicks, a dude can hold your cup too.
      Quote Originally Posted by BattleRabbit View Post
      How do you kill a Mk.ii? Run it with low oil, at redline for a few hours while jumping it off things. Fill the engine with sticks and dirt. Repeat.

    3. 05-03-2012 04:37 PM #3
      Quote Originally Posted by AnAgentOrange View Post
      I'm going to need a little correction I'm sure, but by my eye, I see around 115-120 crank hp. Maybe a hair more.

      Curious as to the price range of what he's trying to get from it? Info on miles this motor has?

      Oh, pics of the Sammy!!!
      Wikkipedia said these motors are 105hp stock so seems like there should be more than a 10 horse gain. The motor is supposed to be pretty fresh seller claims it only has 2 seasons of rock crawling on it. Price is 500 plus 300 to ship it. But the adapters to my bell housing motor mounts and all plumbing and wiring are included.

    4. 05-03-2012 04:43 PM #4
      120 hp is pretty dissapointing news seller claims 170 and I'm not sure that 120 would be worth the effort. And since its 10.5 to 1 boost is out of the question

    5. Member AnAgentOrange's Avatar
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      05-03-2012 04:51 PM #5
      Rereading things and seeing it's SOLID lifter, that's fine. Just wondering where he's getting these numbers. When he built it was anything punched out? Any other headwork besides the mild cam?
      Quote Originally Posted by under the radar View Post
      if you're not into chicks, a dude can hold your cup too.
      Quote Originally Posted by BattleRabbit View Post
      How do you kill a Mk.ii? Run it with low oil, at redline for a few hours while jumping it off things. Fill the engine with sticks and dirt. Repeat.

    6. 05-03-2012 05:03 PM #6
      He Says port matched and bigger valves installed guy doesn't. Seem to know exact details I think he had the motor built and is just reading off the build sheet he claims 10.5 to 1 and 30 over. The guy seems really honest and has been super friendly to deal with but I wonder if he is a lil missimformed. he said he was told 170 at the crank. Thanks for the responseand keep it comming.

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      05-03-2012 07:17 PM #7
      Quote Originally Posted by JOECOCHRANE View Post
      He Says port matched and bigger valves installed guy doesn't. Seem to know exact details I think he had the motor built and is just reading off the build sheet he claims 10.5 to 1 and 30 over. The guy seems really honest and has been super friendly to deal with but I wonder if he is a lil missimformed. he said he was told 170 at the crank. Thanks for the responseand keep it comming.
      its still not 170hp tho.. not a possible chance.. im leaning towards ~120hp, like everyone else..

      10.5:1 compression is just stock compression, with a slightly decked head.. thats not enough to make 170hp.

      that engine would need to be REALLY BUILT.. like not streetable, and it would need more than a 268* cam..

      a small cam, slight bump in compression, dual outlet manifold, and over size valves are not going to boost the power by 60hp.. sorry, the guy had smoke blown up his @$$.

      if it were a modified 1.8L 16v engine, then the 170hp would be MORE believable, but still a LONG shot..

    8. 05-03-2012 07:33 PM #8
      No need to be sorry thanks for the info couple more quick questions any idea what the torque would be? How hard is the cis to deal with tune and keep tuned? And if 10.5 is close to stock compersion could I throw a lil boost at it with out droping compersion?

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      05-03-2012 07:39 PM #9
      Quote Originally Posted by JOECOCHRANE View Post
      No need to be sorry thanks for the info couple more quick questions any idea what the torque would be? How hard is the cis to deal with tune and keep tuned? And if 10.5 is close to stock compersion could I throw a lil boost at it with out droping compersion?
      10.5:1 is too high for boost, unless you had megasquirt, and it was tuned PERFECT for boost and compression.. CIS really doesnt EASILY lend its self to boost, unless its basic, or lambda.

      there were 8.5:1 compression engines, and 10:1 compression engines. the 8.5:1 compression engine lends its self to boost quite nicely, where as the 10:1 compression is DEFINITELY more picky about fuel mix, and timing..

      torque will probably be around the same as HP, with how the engine is built..

      CIS really isnt hard to tune at all, or set up.. you shouldnt need to tune it. as long as you set it up as it should be, it should still be factory tuned.. but if you DO feel the need to tune it, its not hard, and once you tune it, you should never need to tune it again, unless you radically modify the engine..

    10. 05-03-2012 07:47 PM #10
      So know boost with out swaping pistons and engine managment. Where abouts the power curve and the redline gonna be with this cam? I searched but couldn't find much info on it. And 120 hp is terrible my rig weighs about1800lbs and with my gearing combo I hit about 7500 rpm at 70mph in 5th
      Last edited by JOECOCHRANE; 05-03-2012 at 07:52 PM.

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      05-03-2012 10:26 PM #11
      Quote Originally Posted by JOECOCHRANE View Post
      So know boost with out swaping pistons and engine managment. Where abouts the power curve and the redline gonna be with this cam? I searched but couldn't find much info on it. And 120 hp is terrible my rig weighs about1800lbs and with my gearing combo I hit about 7500 rpm at 70mph in 5th
      jesus christ, whats wrong, do you drive around with your marlin crawler 4.7:1 low range engaged all the time?

      how is that even possible?!

      7500 revs @ 70mph?!?!

      you had to have mis-typed that..

      the 1.8 VW wont build power much past 6000...

      the engine you are looking at, is basically identical to the engine in my GTI.. pulls to 6000, maybe a little more..

      and uh, your sami came stock with like 58hp, so 120hp is a HUGE jump. 120hp in an 1800# 4x4 will be FAST AS HELL.. it should wheel like a mofo.

      one thing i would worry about, is BREAKING the stock sami trans, they are only good for about 80-100 ft lbs torque..

      ever had a sami trans apart? the internal shafts are on par with heavy duty TOOTH PICKS..

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      05-03-2012 10:31 PM #12
      wow, i just did some calcs on scirocco.org

      to be turning 7500 @ 70mph, with 31" tires, you would need roughly 9:1 rear end gears for your numbers to be accurate..

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      05-03-2012 10:33 PM #13
      By 168 cam, maybe you mean 268 cam? If it has a 268 cam, that's a cam for a hydro head, not a solid lifter head.

      Based on the specs, I'd say you're looking at about 115hp at the crank. But it should be a nice, reliable (if it was assembled properly), flexible motor.

    14. 05-03-2012 10:39 PM #14
      I have 1.7 to 1 hi range and 5.12s in the diffs with 31s I know my way through every part of a sami a yota and 4x4 chevys its vw that I'm clueless about my rig is not really a sami more a sami based buggy built for dual purpose crawlin and runing wide open across the desert. The trannys are super weak but I have three and yet to brake one. My current motor setup probaly has about 80hp at the crank.

    15. 05-03-2012 10:49 PM #15
      Quote Originally Posted by Glegor View Post
      wow, i just did some calcs on scirocco.org

      to be turning 7500 @ 70mph, with 31" tires, you would need roughly 9:1 rear end gears for your numbers to be accurate..
      1.7 hi range x 5.12 gears my msd box has 7500 rpm red line and I hit it mph is based on my cheesy cell phone gps so I don't really trust it

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      05-04-2012 12:24 AM #16
      I like this project. Keep us up to date. I've been thinking of a Samurai too.

      You have other options, like sourcing a local 2.0 ABA with an 8V head.

    17. 05-04-2012 12:36 AM #17
      I belong to a couple sami forums and pirate 4x4 I have built a few samis into hard core crawlers my stuff get dented beat and destroyed then rebuilt stronger. If I do install this motor then I will keep you posted for sure I have a lot to learn about these motors how to build them and how to tune them. Thanks again for the input and info

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      06-06-2012 01:01 AM #18
      This thread kind of caught my attention... I also agree that that motor is not pushing anywhere near 170hp. Maybe ~120 like previously stated.

      I will also add that tuning the CIS system is very easy to tune. If it's a CIS-E engine, you basically need a multimeter that can read milliamps, tuning harness, and a long 3mm allen bit. You don't really even "tune" it, you just tweak it to have the correct air-fuel ratio so that your not running too rich or too lean.

      Keep us updated on the swap if you decide to do it and DON"T COME BACK WITHOUT PICS!!! Just kidding.... but seriously, it's cool to see a different swap going on here every once in a while.

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