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    Thread: Wiring HELP

    1. Junior Member
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      05-04-2012 11:33 PM #26
      The wiring schematic seem quite in depth and I get the positive and negative parts on the diagrams but none of them seem to match whats in my car!? That's what's confusing me!

      And yes only one spark. When the key is turned to the "on" position it sparks then it sparks once more when the engine starts to crank over but then nothing.? I can't figure out what's going on!

    2. Member briano1234's Avatar
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      05-05-2012 10:52 AM #27
      Do you have an after market alarm? Is it Automatic?
      Last edited by briano1234; 05-05-2012 at 11:14 AM.
      Grounds, Grounds, Grounds Replace them things.
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      Another Useless Ground Thread
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      HAVE YOU CHECKED THE FAQ's ABOVE..PAGE 3 Thread 75?

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      05-05-2012 03:44 PM #28
      There was some after market wiring in the car not sure if it's alarm wires or remote start wires. There was a ground wire connected and then the was an LED light on the right had side that im assuming was a flashing alarm light

      Those are the wires that came out!

      The cars a standard transmission.

    4. Junior Member
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      05-05-2012 04:21 PM #29
      Would the O2 sensor have anything to do with the spark issue? Because there is a O2 sensor at the "header" and the wires are gone out of the back of it. Would this prevent spark or just make te car run like crap because I can't read rich or lean?

    5. Member riotbeast's Avatar
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      05-05-2012 04:50 PM #30
      Quote Originally Posted by Hoppy92 View Post
      Would the O2 sensor have anything to do with the spark issue? Because there is a O2 sensor at the "header" and the wires are gone out of the back of it. Would this prevent spark or just make te car run like crap because I can't read rich or lean?
      Most it will cause is a slight run issue ... I have no o2 working at the moment on my swap and she runs okish but ut definetly wouldnt prevent spark

    6. Member briano1234's Avatar
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      05-05-2012 04:55 PM #31
      Sounds as if you remove the after market wires, but still have a issue the wiring that they ran to it.
      Grounds, Grounds, Grounds Replace them things.
      Divorces, Great Coffee, and Electrics, all start with GOOD Grounds.

      Another Useless Ground Thread
      I am a Commodian. I tell really Crappy jokes.
      HAVE YOU CHECKED THE FAQ's ABOVE..PAGE 3 Thread 75?

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      05-05-2012 08:44 PM #32
      The aftermarket wires were sliced into the cars wirning harness with something like this

      But they have a connector on then for a flat connector to go into

    8. Member briano1234's Avatar
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      05-05-2012 08:52 PM #33
      Those have been known to cut the wires they are splicing.
      Grounds, Grounds, Grounds Replace them things.
      Divorces, Great Coffee, and Electrics, all start with GOOD Grounds.

      Another Useless Ground Thread
      I am a Commodian. I tell really Crappy jokes.
      HAVE YOU CHECKED THE FAQ's ABOVE..PAGE 3 Thread 75?

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      05-05-2012 08:59 PM #34


      It's exactly like this but idk what wires they are attached to??

    10. Member briano1234's Avatar
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      05-05-2012 09:04 PM #35
      Them too.
      When they are applied, they cut through the insulation. That Cut if you apply a too small of one to the wrong size wire can cut it.

      If pig tails exists then you may be grounding out voltages.
      Grounds, Grounds, Grounds Replace them things.
      Divorces, Great Coffee, and Electrics, all start with GOOD Grounds.

      Another Useless Ground Thread
      I am a Commodian. I tell really Crappy jokes.
      HAVE YOU CHECKED THE FAQ's ABOVE..PAGE 3 Thread 75?

    11. Junior Member
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      05-05-2012 09:55 PM #36
      Well there are nothing connected to the pigtails anymore they are just attached to the wire with nothing connected to them.

    12. Junior Member
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      05-06-2012 04:41 PM #37
      So I've been thinking about how sick i am of not being able to drive my damn car so I have been thinking about PLAN B.... I have a 98 jetta wolfsburg edition 2.0 with a blown tranny. How complex would the motor&electrical swap be from my 92 electrical system to the OBD II Electrical system in the 98?

    13. Member tolusina's Avatar
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      05-06-2012 05:14 PM #38
      Are you still getting a single spark when switching on the key?
      That single spark indicates power through the coil and that the power stage pulls the negative to ground so the coil windings saturate, then the negaitive releases making the single spark.
      That single spark says lots of stuff is working, narrows possibilities quite a bit.
      Re-read post #17 back on page 1, never mind (for now) the pics and comments.
      Quote Originally Posted by kamzcab86
      I hate reading: "But I bought this car for $500 and don't want to put another dime into it."
      ____(hey, it's VW AND it's electrical, what's not to fail?) neoBentley+



    14. Junior Member
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      05-06-2012 10:02 PM #39
      So reading post #17 and checking out the link to the other thread and I did the whole middle connector of the distributer "pick up?" and jumped it to ground and the coil sparked every time I took the jumper off the ground.
      I'm not sure what this determains?

    15. Member tolusina's Avatar
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      05-07-2012 12:37 AM #40
      It means that you just determined that the car doesn't spark because the ECU isn't getting a Hall signal.
      You know this because you just simulated the Hall signal.

      Don't throw a Hall generator in it just yet, first you must verify the the Hall generator is getting voltage and ground.
      Power is on the red/black wire, ground is the brown/yellow.
      Quote Originally Posted by kamzcab86
      I hate reading: "But I bought this car for $500 and don't want to put another dime into it."
      ____(hey, it's VW AND it's electrical, what's not to fail?) neoBentley+



    16. Junior Member
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      05-07-2012 08:37 AM #41
      so there is power going to the ground not sure if my battery is a little low on power but there was 11.09 volts to the red and black wire using a multimeter but i didn't get anything when i tested for ground with my test light. hooked the alligator clip on the positive post of the battery and then test light end on the brow and yellow terminal and got nothing what other way is the to test for ground?

    17. Member tolusina's Avatar
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      05-07-2012 10:59 AM #42
      Quote Originally Posted by Hoppy92 View Post
      ...... i didn't get anything when i tested for ground with my test light. hooked the alligator clip on the positive post of the battery and then test light end on the brow and yellow terminal and got nothing what other way is the to test for ground?
      This is diagnostic progress.
      Yes, there are other ways to test grounds, no mater at this time though, since this circuit has failed the test light ground test, it has FAILED, let's keep moving.

      ---
      Bentley, >Main Wiring Diagram - Cabriolet from 1991> pages 2 and 3 of 10, on page 3, right hand half page, about in the center you should see 'G40 Hall Gen'. On it's right pin marked 1/- is the brown/yellow ground wire of our current interest. brown/yellow goes up and connects to a thin horizontal line, that thin line represents a connection. That connection is shown being common to the throttle switches, pin 6 of the ECU, pin 2 of the Coolant Temp Sender, pin 4 of the Air Flow Sensor and the mysterious (circled) 94.
      Test light ground test all those other component points, I suspect you won't find ground on any of them, that (circled) 94 is likely open and THE fault common to all.

      Should you find any of these common components do have ground, there's a break in the harness you'll have to figure out on your own, then fix it or else kludge a work around.

      Back to Page 2 of 10, all we can find out there is that (circled) 94 is >in DigiFant wiring harness>, which helps us not at all (I already ranted in post 20 of this thread).

      So, back to your photo.........


      Those two cut wires that connect to ground at the cylinder head side coolant flange, are either of those brown/yellow? Regardless, can you find the other ends of the cuts?
      How about that twisted splice connection just below the coolant hose to the expansion tank, follow that both ways, where do those wires go?

      Your turn..........






      .
      Quote Originally Posted by kamzcab86
      I hate reading: "But I bought this car for $500 and don't want to put another dime into it."
      ____(hey, it's VW AND it's electrical, what's not to fail?) neoBentley+



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      05-07-2012 02:36 PM #43
      I took the wiring harness out of the car a little while ago and i took all the tape and what not off al the wires and i can see that someone has tried to repair the harness becasue there is 15 splices in the harness over all.... i dont know if this was dont right and i dont know what i should do about it...?
      fallowing what you said about the bently wiring diagram i found this

      these are some of the spices that are through out the wiring harness.....
      these are foregin and the colors of the wires dont correspond to anything becase they are just short pieces of wire put inline like a "patch". The image corresponds to the thin horizontal line in the bently. all the wires come together at one splice. the yellow wires slpices into the idle switch and the yellow wire splices into the ground wire for the Hall Generator...
      I didnt understand what you ment by "that (circled) 94 is likely open and THE fault common to all."
      what does this mean?

      And i have no idea where the two orange/black wires go to

      as for the black wire the from that splice it doesnt go anywhere but it goes into some srink wrap and then goes into the firewall. then i cant find it. stumped on that wire may go into the fuse pannel right next to a big red/black wire like the red/black wire is as big around as a pencil.

    19. Member tolusina's Avatar
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      05-07-2012 11:58 PM #44
      Sorry, I had some brain fade, what some call a brain tart, others call a senior moment, er, (circled) 94.

      (circled) 94 is what they've called in other schematics, a "Welded Connection". That cluster of components that are connected to it in common all ground through the ECU into Pin 6, through magic, mirrors, dragons and smoke until finally back out of the ECU on Pin 19 (brown/black) and grounded at (circled) 18 which Bentley says is on the engine block (but I think they really mean the side coolant flange on the head).
      ---
      Um, that spliced up harness on your knee, next thing to do with it is feel all those splices. Hopefully those splices are stiff from soldering. Generally guys that are sharp enough to use shrink tubing are sharp enough to solder, but you won't know for sure until you check. Wouldn't hurt to remove the shrink from one or more of those splices and have a 1st person look at what the guy did. You might want to post pics of the inside of those spices if you think they might be questionable.

      It does look like the car had some major wiring repairs. The car could have had a serious short, a fire, a collision or any combination.
      Aside from the guy's lack of matching colored wire (and possibly questionable splices) it looks like he did decent work, trying to duplicate the original as closely as possible with materials on hand. Unfortunately, it leaves you to sort out just what color should be what other colors.

      Just think how well you will know these circuits once you do sort it all out.

      By the way, when I've posted Pin numbers and (circled) numbers, part of the reason is so that you could follow in Bentley, learn schematic reading, interpretation and diagnosis by doing. Have you found any of the references I've posted in your Bentley?
      Quote Originally Posted by kamzcab86
      I hate reading: "But I bought this car for $500 and don't want to put another dime into it."
      ____(hey, it's VW AND it's electrical, what's not to fail?) neoBentley+



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      05-08-2012 12:37 PM #45
      well this is quite frustrating to me!!!!!! just had a huge long past typed up and went to eat something acam tried to post it when i came back and it asked me to long back in and when it did it deleted what i had typed and now i need to retype/remember what i touched upon.....
      It is actually a good thing that it go deleted becaseu as i looked close at the digifant connector what i thought was pin 20 is really pin 6 on not sure of how i read it but this is what it says on the back of the connector!!

      this proves alot because ppin 6 is where all the grounds go to and if it isnt there then eveything isnt getting grounded..... but the connector is broke/crackes when pin 6 would go and cracked on the other side by where pin 16 is.. i think im going to need a new connector or a new wiring harness. if feel as though this is the problem!!!!!

      WERE GETTING SOME WHERE I LIKE IT

      i found this inder some of the shirk wrap

      its not the best looking solder job but at least there is some solder there.. it doesnt matter thought because all the wires that are spliced except for a few go to pin 6!!!

      You have been such a help and yes the references to bently is a great help with getting use to fallowing th diagrams and finding things!!! i really appreciate your help.

      Here is what the the connector looks like

      here is one crack near oin 16
      Here is pin 6... this is what im thinking the problem is and im not sure if its fixable....


      also there is a violet wires that comes out of pin 2 this would be to the O2 sensor and its goes into a bigger insulator with a black wire....... the black wire is cut... isn what that means. im not sure where it goes or where its suppose to go either. any ideas?

    21. Member CajunSpike's Avatar
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      05-08-2012 12:44 PM #46
      If it would be helpful, I have most of the wiring harness from a 91 in my garage. I cut a few wires off the ends..nothing removed close to the big plug...if you need it.

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      05-08-2012 12:51 PM #47
      what is pin 20 suppose to be because it has a solid brown wire going to it but in the bentley doesnt even show a pin 20 in the diagrams. its the brown wire that all the splices go into?. this isnt right!

      the wire my pointer finger is on..

      What am i to do?!

    23. Member tolusina's Avatar
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      05-08-2012 01:27 PM #48
      Bottom line on top, get a replacement harness, that one is just too boogered to mess with.
      I see no Pin 20 in Bentley either, no ideas what the last guy was up to there.

      The violet on Pin 2 with the mysterious black is normal. The oxygen sensor signal is both very low voltage and very low current, to keep random noise off the signal wire, it must be shielded, the black wire is the shield. That wire pair might be (probably is) coaxial, just like TV cable wire. See Current Track 34, violet passes through a dashed circle, the dashed circle connects to black on Track 33 to ground.
      To conform to the DIN convention, that black ground should have been brown, but hey, it's VW and it's electrical, VW techs need to be able to send their kids to college ya know.

      Speaking of the DIN standards, there's a wikipedia link to the topic on the page the link in my sig points to.
      ---
      In the two views of the connector showing wires, it looks like something burned in there, yikes.
      ---
      I'd suggest you take Cajun up on his harness offer.
      Whatever he's cut off, you've got plugs to splice on. You've also got examples of how to solder and shrink the splices, just solder better. Use an iron, not a torch.
      Cajun, it's a 25 pin ECU connector, right?





      .
      Quote Originally Posted by kamzcab86
      I hate reading: "But I bought this car for $500 and don't want to put another dime into it."
      ____(hey, it's VW AND it's electrical, what's not to fail?) neoBentley+



    24. Junior Member
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      05-08-2012 01:40 PM #49
      i can get a complete wiring harness from a junk yard near me for $120 but im not sure of that kind of shape its in.

      what do you mean by DIN? or DIN standards?

      and yes all through out the harness there is parts of the brown and yellow wire that would go to pin 6 this would be the ground what would cause it to burn up so bad?

      Having the grounds going into pin 20 would probably screw up the ECU huh? becasue that would out me out 60 bucks becasue the ECU'S i have are probably junk because of this pin 20?...

      what do you think?

    25. Member CajunSpike's Avatar
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      05-08-2012 01:54 PM #50
      The harness came out of the 91 Etienne I junked a while back, digi 2, 5 speed.
      It was removed by the previous owner before I bought the car.

      I remember cutting off door switch wires, and one or two connectors to specific devices...but the main body of the harness is untouched. At worst you could compare the two to replace what I took off, from his old harness.

      I'd let it go for $50, shipping included. More trying to help than get rich off his problems.
      Last edited by CajunSpike; 05-08-2012 at 02:04 PM.

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