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    Thread: Central locking failure

    1. Junior Member
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      05-04-2012 03:19 PM #1
      First my keyless access failed (doors not unlocking when touching any handle or boot VW button). Now both keys are unable to operate the central locking and disarm the alarm. Even if I use the drivers key manually the central locking isn't working and the alarm is still active. Any troubleshooting I could try?
      I don't have a VAG-Com unfortunately.

    2. Moderator Paximus's Avatar
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      05-04-2012 03:48 PM #2
      Hi,

      It's worth looking to see if any of the large oval rubber bungs are missing under the car, there are occasional reports of the vacant hole picking up water splash and soaking the KESSY unit under the carpet. There are other sources of water ingress that can do this too, suggest you search the forum for "water carpet" using the search link on the Phaeton index page. The top surface of the carpet remains dry.

      If you are unlucky enough to have this problem, get it fixed pronto as there are much worse symptoms possible.

      There's another thread relating to the repair of a small fault in the KESSY unit, where a power regulator transistor fails.

      An aged left battery is capable of giving this (and many more) symptoms.

      It's unlikely to be as simple as the fob batteries because the 2nd part of the security system that releases the door locks uses a passive (non-battery) chip.

      Manually unlocking the door with the key will sound the alarm after a short delay if the engine isn't started, so that might not be a fault symptom.

      Hopefully someone else will chime in. But a VCDS or dealer scan would be really (really) useful.

      Cheers,
      Chris

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      05-06-2012 06:03 PM #3
      Hi Chris,

      Thanks for the advice. Its due a service so I'll ask my dealer to check those bungs. I've not had any water or moisture in the footwells so I'm hoping its not that.

      One thing that came to mind was when I was tring to get my keyless working, I got my spare fob to test. I got into the car (not using keyless, but using the fob), but did not start it. I will try and use my original key and manually open the door and then start the engine (within 15 seconds), to see if that helps. Perhaps its this key sync issue.

      I'm also ordering a VCDS PLX Kiwi for iPhone

      This should help me diagnose where the fault is!

      Thanks to the forum for all the help on troubleshooting these types of problems

    4. Moderator Paximus's Avatar
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      05-06-2012 07:59 PM #4
      Good luck with the investigations...

      BTW, a regular OBD-II port reader won't give you the detailed diagnostics required for the Phaeton, it pretty much has to be the one from Ross-Tech (or a VW one at ten or twenty times the price!).

      Cheers,
      Chris

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      05-06-2012 08:42 PM #5
      Something to try.... Get into the car , start it with the main key ( the one not working with the un-lock command) and with the engine running, press the "lock" button on the fob. (yes the key in the ignition) This should reset the remote fob to the car. Turn the car off and that fob should be reset.

      Mike

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      05-07-2012 08:47 AM #6
      Hi Mike,

      When I get into the car manually and insert the key, turning either left (emergency start) or right the car won't start and the alarm goes off after a few seconds. I've also tried the Start ignition and that won't work. I've tried both keys, which show a green light when pressed so I assume the battery in the fobs are ok. I think I've ruled out flat batteries as the infotainment works, it won't let you do anything security related though, like disable the interior or tilt sensors. The emergency start procedure uses the same battery as the infotainment system I think.
      I will try and remove the fuses related to the kessy system for keyless, just to see if its that.
      My brother recommended disconnecting both batteries for 30 mins, but I'm not keen on doing that.
      Thanks for any tips.

      Allister

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      05-07-2012 08:50 AM #7
      Hi Chris,

      Yes, I've borrowed a VAG-COM and used it with a laptop. The only reason I like the PLX Kiwi is that it works with my iPhone and iPad which are usually in the car when I travel, my laptop is not.
      I wonder if you or anyone knows if the Kiwi can be used for Diagnosis?
      Thanks again.

      Allister

    8. Moderator Paximus's Avatar
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      05-07-2012 10:40 AM #8
      Hi Allister,

      I can see the immediate appeal of the Kiwi OBD-II reader/smartphone combination. But (as far as I can see) it will only display the basic vehicle PID data required in the OBD spec which is sourced from the engine Controller, primarily intended for emissions management.

      The data required for Phaeton diagnosis from the likes of the security Controller or the seat Controllers is a considerable extension of that spec. Maybe Ross-Tech will port their software to Android one day!

      Chris

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      05-07-2012 11:34 AM #9
      I just checked the passenger footwell, its soaking wet :-(
      I've tried connecting my Superchips Blufin, which has DTC. However since the key is not disabling the alarm, I cannot turn the ignition on and it cannot read the fault codes.
      I guess I'm better off just getting it recovered to my dealer.
      I'm dissapointed that I've had this car serviced by one dealer and they haven't dealt with the rubber bungs falling off, if its a common problem, The cost of replacing the Kessy and whatever else has been waterlogged will probably be very expensive now I'm out of warranty. Might be time to move on from my Phaeton :-(

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      05-07-2012 12:13 PM #10
      WOW, hope for the best!!

      Mike

    11. Moderator Paximus's Avatar
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      05-07-2012 01:07 PM #11
      Bummer. But at least your car hasn't started cranking the engine uncontrollably when unattended yet...

      There's a description and a photo of getting at the unit in post #16 here, although it's a LHD car. The other side trim has one screw to be removed behind the carpet and a few push-in fixings to be pulled out, starting at the rear.

      It's worth trying to dry it out, and if electrolytic action hasn't eaten out the PCB's copper tracks then leaving the open unit a few days in a warm dry place might yet do the trick. And drying the connectors, of course.

      The modules are available second-hand for about £75 (they're £400 from VW), but you need the dealer to reprogram it, and it probably needs to be the exact type number as your existing unit.

      Best,
      Chris
      Last edited by Paximus; 05-07-2012 at 03:04 PM.

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      05-07-2012 03:21 PM #12
      I think I asked about this before and Powerdubs responded that bagging the Kessy was ok. My only concern is ventilation and the potential for the unit to overheat. Are there any other opinions; just thinking of preventative measures?

      Damon

    13. Moderator Paximus's Avatar
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      05-07-2012 03:33 PM #13
      The unit itself has a silicone rubber seal on its lid... I would have thought that meant it was supposed to be waterproof. But I don't know about the plugs, and in any case every tiny pinhole will allow capillary seepage.

      Cheers,
      Chris



      Photo of Willem's repeated from the thread referred to above (I hope that's OK)


    14. Member WillemBal's Avatar
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      05-07-2012 04:12 PM #14
      Hi Chris,

      Yes, this is exactly how it looks like. Pretty clever designed and manufactured though. The socket housing is completely moulded around the pins, so it should be pretty watertight. The one I repaired didn't have water damage. I suspect that Allister's KESSY failed because of water ingress via the silicone seal or via the connectors on the outside. IF the PCB got wet, then probably those power Mosfets are fried. If you lived nearby, I would suggest to drop it by or simply send it to me, so I can give it a try and possibly fix it.

      The dealer will, most likely, replace the KESSY and reprogram the keys. Looking at other forum members who had identical problems with drowned Kessy's, I guess it will take at least 2 to 3 weeks before the dealer has fully repaired the car, including drying the interior and checking for other faults.

      Willem

    15. Member WillemBal's Avatar
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      05-07-2012 04:23 PM #15
      Quote Originally Posted by Bladerunnertm View Post
      The only reason I like the PLX Kiwi is that it works with my iPhone and iPad which are usually in the car when I travel, my laptop is not.
      I wonder if you or anyone knows if the Kiwi can be used for Diagnosis?
      Hi Allister,

      I've got one and I can confirm that you can only check your ECM with it. The only useful thing I've done with it was checking by battery voltage as reported by the ECM. In my W12, with two engine control modules, it is probably not even possible to reset the CEL, for which it primarily is advertised. It is true that you can check about a zillion things of your ECM, but it is simply not capable of scanning all of your 30+ controllers. For the purpose of diagnosing faulty controllers, you really need a VCDS (formerly VAG-COM) from Ross-Tech.
      The KIWI is a nice gimmick, with a lot of fancy dials and logging capabilities, but for this job, it isn't suitable.

      Willem

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      05-08-2012 08:54 AM #16
      Hi Chris,

      Do you know how I get the Kessy out of the wet footwell to dry it out?

      Regards,

      Allister

    17. Moderator Paximus's Avatar
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      05-08-2012 01:55 PM #17
      Hi Allister,

      Sure, see my post #11 above. My only doubt is which side of the car it is on a RHD car, the manual shows it on the left.

      Assuming that's true on a RHD car, you pull back the carpet to get access to the nut (1 in the drawing) on the back of the passenger (left side) footwell side trim panel, remove that, then pull up the rest of the trim piece out of its 'grab' lugs, starting at the back.

      When that's off, you can get a friend to hold up the carpet at the base of the door entry while you dive in and remove the two bolts holding the unit. Unplug the connectors and voila, you have it. That's a good time to start to dry out the floorpan too.

      Hope that helps.

      Cheers,
      Chris



      Passenger side trim removal (LHD shown, reverse image for RHD)




      Kessy Controller location


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      05-16-2012 05:07 AM #18
      I decided to take it for diagnosis at my local dealer. They showed me the Kessy which was in the passenger footwell. Although it has a seal it was corroded. I've asked to keep it and will add some photos. The technician on day 2 of the diagnosis could not find how water had entered the vehicle. I mentioned the bungs under, but he says water doesn't usually travel upwards and there is a double skin, so the holes don't enter the footwell anyway. The bungs are covers for when the chassis is bolted to the jig in the production process he says. He is investigating the air intake area near the windscreen wipers. The have agreed £700 to diagnose the cause and repair the leak and replace the Kessy. They have a 2 year warranty which covers everything in relation to the repair, including consequential damage. I had considered saving a bit by ordering the £90 Kessy. However a few points made me think twice.
      1) VW will not fit any part not ordered through them.
      2) They are having trouble reprogramming the new Kessy to accept my keys.
      3) Unsure of the warranty with the £90 Kessy, if any.

      Taking into account I'm keen to get my car back quickly and not have to rent one, I've accepted the £700. Considering how much time they have taken in dissembling the car, it's ok I guess.

      I think in future I will look into the extended warranties available after the VW 4 years is up.
      Though it's possible this part would not have been covered anyway.

      I think this will be the last major item I'll replace, it's done a 120k so I'm ready to get a new one now :-)

      Thanks to all who gave advice.

    19. Moderator Paximus's Avatar
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      05-16-2012 07:24 AM #19
      Hi Allister,

      Thanks for the update. It sounds like you have a good plan, and the Phaeton Tech seems to know what he is talking about, and the price is reasonable considering the car and the cost of the component.

      It will be interesting to see the photos, and also find out where he thinks the water is coming in. Obviously there are a lot of reports in the forum on this (Fuse Box cover in the Plenum chamber, sunroof drain tubes, plenum chamber drains blocked and so on).

      Good luck.
      Chris

    20. 05-16-2012 11:13 AM #20
      If they're dismantling the area around the wipers, you might want to get them to lubricate the wiper mechanism while they're in there, if it's not too late.

    21. Junior Member
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      05-16-2012 11:20 AM #21
      Thanks for the tip. Is this not covered in my Interim 40k service?

    22. 05-16-2012 11:40 AM #22
      No. There's a thread on it somewhere. The inside of the wiper mechanism is prone to corrosion, causing squeaking and eventually failure. The difficult part is getting the plenum and surroundings off, if they've done that already it's not a big deal to dismantle the wiper mechanism, clean it & grease it.

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      05-18-2012 01:54 PM #23
      My dealer still has my car (since Monday) and has spent 3 days trying to get the Kessy online. It's not looking good for getting it back for the weekend :-(

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      07-01-2012 04:11 PM #24
      Well my dealer still has the car. Its being 'diagnosed'. I'm now been assisted by VW Luxury Care UK, so we'll see if they can resolve it quicker.
      I've been without a car for 2 months, with no courtesy car. I've spent around £1500 a month getting trains to London. I've purchased an Audi A8 now. I couldn't risk this type of issue not reoccuring on a new Phaeton. I see the design is the same.
      I just need the car back working now for the garage to accept mine in part-ex and let me have my new car.

      My current options as I know it are.
      1) Abandon diagnosis, pay the dealer £1500 and scrap the car
      2) Continue diagnosis, pay the dealer £1500+ part ex the car
      3) Contact insurer and claim write-off due to water damaged.
      4) Fix it myself :-) with some help from the forum.
      5) Build a garage and preserve it in carbonite for future generations to marvel at.

      I just wished VW had taken more care of their customers with these 'design flaws'. No car should be a write-off (unable to be used as a car) due to a security device coding issue.

      The new Audi is quite a bit better than the revised Phaeton, so I don't feel too bad. Makes me wonder how long VW will keep the Phaeton going. It was a great car.

      Allister

    25. Member EnglishPhaeton's Avatar
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      07-01-2012 06:08 PM #25
      Quote Originally Posted by Bladerunnertm View Post
      Well my dealer still has the car. Its being 'diagnosed'. I'm now been assisted by VW Luxury Care UK, so we'll see if they can resolve it quicker.
      I've been without a car for 2 months, with no courtesy car. I've spent around £1500 a month getting trains to London. I've purchased an Audi A8 now. I couldn't risk this type of issue not reoccuring on a new Phaeton. I see the design is the same.
      I just need the car back working now for the garage to accept mine in part-ex and let me have my new car.

      My current options as I know it are.
      1) Abandon diagnosis, pay the dealer £1500 and scrap the car
      2) Continue diagnosis, pay the dealer £1500+ part ex the car
      3) Contact insurer and claim write-off due to water damaged.
      4) Fix it myself :-) with some help from the forum.
      5) Build a garage and preserve it in carbonite for future generations to marvel at.

      I just wished VW had taken more care of their customers with these 'design flaws'. No car should be a write-off (unable to be used as a car) due to a security device coding issue.

      The new Audi is quite a bit better than the revised Phaeton, so I don't feel too bad. Makes me wonder how long VW will keep the Phaeton going. It was a great car.

      Allister
      Hi Allister,

      I'd go down the route of 3-4-5

      Get the car written off, buy it from the insurers, fix it, and preserve it for special occasions!

      Stu
      Member of Le Club 2P

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