VW begins Amarok production in Germany

[Schümey]

The man bucket truck is def a photoshop. And not a very good one at that

It's missing the control unit/base at the bottom, which is what gave it away for me.

Here's a pic of an actual man bucket unit on a Tacoma:

Check Background

[x_GTI_x]

Living in new england, and considering getting a larger daily driver/all season hauler more and more everyday... I can honestly say if they brought this over here, itd been in my driveway in a heart beat.

As long as it was 4x4 and diesel, Id take it.

Vw should know the US loves its pick up trucks, I find it interesting they havent brought this here yet

[Fritz27]

Living in new england, and considering getting a larger daily driver/all season hauler more and more everyday... I can honestly say if they brought this over here, itd been in my driveway in a heart beat.

As long as it was 4x4 and diesel, Id take it.

Vw should know the US loves its pick up trucks, I find it interesting they havent brought this here yet

Because real truck buyers are loyal to the domestics. That's why the Toyota Tundra, which is a really awesome pickup truck can barely make any headway and Toyota's experience with pickups curb stomps VW's.

I just think it's hard for VW to make a business case for the Amarok as a "truck that only Dubbers would buy" as a very profitable niche. Especially considering it'd cost a fortune with the chicken tax and diesel powertrain.

[x_GTI_x]

Because real truck buyers are loyal to the domestics. That's why the Toyota Tundra, which is a really awesome pickup truck can barely make any headway and Toyota's experience with pickups curb stomps VW's.

I just think it's hard for VW to make a business case for the Amarok as a "truck that only Dubbers would buy" as a very profitable niche. Especially considering it'd cost a fortune with the chicken tax and diesel powertrain.

at this point, the taco would be my second choice honestly. I love the looks of the amarok and id love to have a bigger car with a diesel motor for great mileage.

plus its easy and relatively cheap to squeeze a decent amount of power and torque out of a turbo-diesel motor.

[emmettlodge]

Vw should know the US loves its pick up trucks, I find it interesting they havent brought this here yet

Obviously, this hasn't been explained enough, so I'll explain it again.

VW is a business, their job is to make money and make their shareholders profitable. Bringing the Amarok to the US will not be profitable because nobody will buy it. Ergo, VW will not bring the Amarok to the US.

[x_GTI_x]

Obviously, this hasn't been explained enough, so I'll explain it again.

VW is a business, their job is to make money and make their shareholders profitable. Bringing the Amarok to the US will not be profitable because nobody will buy it. Ergo, VW will not bring the Amarok to the US.

I think theyd be surprised how many they would actually sell to be honest.. might take a bit for sales to really take hold... but once people realize the mileage benefits and the fact its a new style/design being brought into this segment of trucks, it might actually catch on.

I think the biggest customer would be those looking for an alternative to the tacoma/dakota, which would be my first choice in this class of trucks, as it currently stands.

[pwm]

I think theyd be surprised how many they would actually sell to be honest.. might take a bit for sales to really take hold... but once people realize the mileage benefits and the fact its a new style/design being brought into this segment of trucks, it might actually catch on.

I think the biggest customer would be those looking for an alternative to the tacoma/dakota, which would be my first choice in this class of trucks, as it currently stands.

I'd say the fact we haven't seen any midsizer offer diesels is pretty telling about the size of the potential market.

The Taco absolutely dominates the midsize market at this point. Toyota offers diesel Taco/Hilux elsewhere...if there were a sizeable market here I suspect we'd already see it. They'd be able to possibly break the 30mpg barrier and would cause waves. Hell, it'd be cheaper for them as they already build them here, AND they have an established presence...and they still don't offer them. Its still the midsize category which is small potatoes compared to the bread and butter full sized. No point incurring addedcosts for a relatively small piece of the pie.


Tacos, bread, butter, potatoes, pie...this post made me hungry.

[CannuckCorradoVR6T]

I think the public perception at large is that gas is not so high to warrant buying a diesel truck that could cost as much as a comparable full sizer. The manufacturers probably see it the same way.

I would buy the diesel Amarok in a heartbeat, and I couldn't fault VW if they became the first to market with this arrangement. Maybe Canada should be the test market.

[.LSinLV.]

A reasonably well-equipped Taco crew cab hits $33-35k effortlessly. As I said above, then add $2000-2500 on to that if you want a diesel, which in the US would require AdBlue. If their strategy with the Q7, Touareg, and JSW TDI models is any guide, a diesel would only be available in a well-equipped trim line, not on base models.

So...I'd be astonished if you could obtain a diesel Amarok for any less than $33k. Now, I'd be willing to pay that, but I've bought $33k SUVs a couple of times.

yet I paid $45K for my T3 Touareg TDi which has LESS cargo capacity. I see this canablizing Touareg sales if anything, but in the end I think if the price was low to mid $30's, it would sell well in the US.

[emmettlodge]

The higher price of diesel is a huge turn-off for many people. People hate $100 fill ups, even if they're actually getting higher MPG's to offset it.

[Shomegrown]

I'd say the fact we haven't seen any midsizer offer diesels is pretty telling about the size of the potential market.

The Taco absolutely dominates the midsize market at this point. Toyota offers diesel Taco/Hilux elsewhere...if there were a sizeable market here I suspect we'd already see it. They'd be able to possibly break the 30mpg barrier and would cause waves. Hell, it'd be cheaper for them as they already build them here, AND they have an established presence...and they still don't offer them. Its still the midsize category which is small potatoes compared to the bread and butter full sized. No point incurring addedcosts for a relatively small piece of the pie.


Tacos, bread, butter, potatoes, pie...this post made me hungry.

Except none of Toyota's diesels have the technology to meet US emissions standards. VW has this.

That's the biggest factor.

[pwm]

Neither does VW in a vehicle this size without the use of adblue. Why couldn't Toyota use something similar?

[Shomegrown]

Neither does VW in a vehicle this size without the use of adblue. Why couldn't Toyota use something similar?

They could, but it would require significant investment and development for one single market.

VW can spread those costs further as they use the SCR/AdBlue systems across multiple brands in North America and in Europe.

It's not just a matter of slapping that stuff on and calling it a day. It takes a ton of development work.

[feels_road]

The higher price of diesel is a huge turn-off for many people. People hate $100 fill ups, even if they're actually getting higher MPG's to offset it.

That depends on where you are. Here in the East Bay, currently, Diesel and regular are about the same. At the station where I fuel up, Diesel is actually a couple of pennies cheaper.

[Ernie McCracken]

Don't ever change, TCL.

"I'd buy one tomorrow! Ok, not really, but I'd make that claim on the internet!"
"They'd sell based on mega raging diesel torques boners, alone! People just don't know about the torqs and the mpg's!"
"VW can't even build commuter crapboxes with consistent quality, but I'm sure they've got it all sorted out in this brand new model in a brand new segment for them."
"$40k for a tiny niche pseudo-utility vehicle? No problem. SHOULD PUT AN AUDI BADGE ON IT AND SELL IT FOR $60k ALL DAY LONG."
"GM, Dodge, Ford, and Toyota just don't know the truck market in the US. Someone should tell them that according to TCL, they are clearly missing out."

[Uk in NY]

while I agree that the US crowd will unlikely ever desert the domestics in the pick up market....
I do have o ask this question.
As someone travelling in Australia at the moment... and who has just seen their Ford Ranger..



is WHEN DO WE GET THIS???? I see them everywhere over here! and they are gorgeous.

so much for the US being their #1 market

[Shomegrown]

Don't ever change, TCL.

"I'd buy one tomorrow! Ok, not really, but I'd make that claim on the internet!"
"They'd sell based on mega raging diesel torques boners, alone! People just don't know about the torqs and the mpg's!"
"VW can't even build commuter crapboxes with consistent quality, but I'm sure they've got it all sorted out in this brand new model in a brand new segment for them."
"$40k for a tiny niche pseudo-utility vehicle? No problem. SHOULD PUT AN AUDI BADGE ON IT AND SELL IT FOR $60k ALL DAY LONG."
"GM, Dodge, Ford, and Toyota just don't know the truck market in the US. Someone should tell them that according to TCL, they are clearly missing out."

VW's commercial truck division (who is responsible for the Amarok) has been making everything from pickups to full sized semi trucks for many years. They're pretty popular on a global scale. Trucks aren't new to them at all.

And I've had two Routans, so I'll be happy to put my money where my mouth is.

(But I'd take that Ranger above too if that was an option)

[Turbio!]

Don't ever change, TCL.

"I'd buy one tomorrow! Ok, not really, but I'd make that claim on the internet!"
"They'd sell based on mega raging diesel torques boners, alone! People just don't know about the torqs and the mpg's!"
"VW can't even build commuter crapboxes with consistent quality, but I'm sure they've got it all sorted out in this brand new model in a brand new segment for them."
"$40k for a tiny niche pseudo-utility vehicle? No problem. SHOULD PUT AN AUDI BADGE ON IT AND SELL IT FOR $60k ALL DAY LONG."
"GM, Dodge, Ford, and Toyota just don't know the truck market in the US. Someone should tell them that according to TCL, they are clearly missing out."

[Turbio!]

is WHEN DO WE GET THIS???? I see them everywhere over here! and they are gorgeous.

so much for the US being their #1 market

The US is their number 1 market. We get the F-150, -250, and -350. We get the most diverse truck and SUV lineup Ford sells. Yeah, we don't get something that's 8/10ths the size of an F-150 but otherwise the same except for fewer configurations, but aside from the diesel (which is coming in the Transit van!) what are we really missing out on?

[emmettlodge]

but aside from the diesel (which is coming in the Transit van!) what are we really missing out on?

the euroness! We're missing out on all of the euroness!

[robr2]

while I agree that the US crowd will unlikely ever desert the domestics in the pick up market....
I do have o ask this question.
As someone travelling in Australia at the moment... and who has just seen their Ford Ranger..



is WHEN DO WE GET THIS???? I see them everywhere over here! and they are gorgeous.

so much for the US being their #1 market

We don't because the price of it would be so close to the F150 without much benefit to the consumer.

[x_GTI_x]

The US is their number 1 market. We get the F-150, -250, and -350. We get the most diverse truck and SUV lineup Ford sells. Yeah, we don't get something that's 8/10ths the size of an F-150 but otherwise the same except for fewer configurations, but aside from the diesel (which is coming in the Transit van!) what are we really missing out on?

I wouldnt exactly dismiss it as - "well the only thing were missing is the diesel"

That would be a huge pro / purchase point for alot of people looking at this class of trucks... those motors are a couple small upgrades away from putting down some very good torque/power numbers while getting awesome mileage in a pick up.

I really dont see how VW would lose massive amounts of money shipping a few of these stateside to see what happens... say what you will about the "demand not being great enough" and people being stuck in their ways. these things would go like hot cakes to the people serious about buying one - myself being one of them.

not to mention this thing just looks nicer than all the others on the market.. its modern but not overly technical and busy... its a great looking truck - and all the reviews for it have been awesome.

The biggest thing for me would have to be the 4x2 - 4x4 thing...

[pwm]

I wouldnt exactly dismiss it as - "well the only thing were missing is the diesel"

That would be a huge pro / purchase point for alot of people looking at this class of trucks... those motors are a couple small upgrades away from putting down some very good torque/power numbers while getting awesome mileage in a pick up.

I really dont see how VW would lose massive amounts of money shipping a few of these stateside to see what happens... say what you will about the "demand not being great enough" and people being stuck in their ways. these things would go like hot cakes to the people serious about buying one - myself being one of them.

not to mention this thing just looks nicer than all the others on the market.. its modern but not overly technical and busy... its a great looking truck - and all the reviews for it have been awesome.

The biggest thing for me would have to be the 4x2 - 4x4 thing...

You gotta realize though that you aren't indicative of the potential market at all. Going just by this post and the cars you have listed under your name...are you in any way representative of the truck buying consumer? You have a bagged VW, a cabriolet, and other than the diesel aspect, the only thing you mentioned about the Amarok is the looks.

When I hear my buddy who owns a super duty Ram talk trucks, I've never once heard him mention the looks. Its always powertrain, towing, payload. That's it.

Dubbers aren't a business case. Yes you may buy one if available, but you are an outlier. If you needed a truck in any way, you'd already have one. The fact you make it work with a hatchback and a convertible doesn't indicate you would likely buy the antithesis of your two current vehicles.

[Turbio!]

I think theyd be surprised how many they would actually sell to be honest.. might take a bit for sales to really take hold... but once people realize the mileage benefits and the fact its a new style/design being brought into this segment of trucks, it might actually catch on.
.

What's the gamble worth? That's what it really boils down to. How much profit can they make so it's worthwhile for them to go to the horrendous expense of federalization?

[x_GTI_x]

You gotta realize though that you aren't indicative of the potential market at all. Going just by this post and the cars you have listed under your name...are you in any way representative of the truck buying consumer? You have a bagged VW, a cabriolet, and other than the diesel aspect, the only thing you mentioned about the Amarok is the looks.

When I hear my buddy who owns a super duty Ram talk trucks, I've never once heard him mention the looks. Its always powertrain, towing, payload. That's it.

Dubbers aren't a business case. Yes you may buy one if available, but you are an outlier. If you needed a truck in any way, you'd already have one. The fact you make it work with a hatchback and a convertible doesn't indicate you would likely buy the antithesis of your two current vehicles.

I had a ranger in my driveway for 4 years prior, Im pretty sure i just mentioned how easy it would be to make power in one of these, and I also mentioned I wouldnt be excited for a stritctly 4x2 platform. so i touched on more than just looks and diesel, but ill say it again, diesel would be one of the main selling points for me on this truck. I dont care that your friend insist on talking numbers and payload of his hemi - i dont need to compensate.

if i wanted to talk numbers itd be about my car, not how far i can push the payload of my pickup truck to look like a dbag with a bunch of random **** stuffed in the back just to say i did.

Im about to start a turbo build on my car and will be getting the thing completely resprayed, so thats one vehicle down and my cabby is driven by my girlfriend 75% of the time. which would call for another car.

living in new england, and always hauling car parts/wood/etc.. in the back of a hatchback gets a little old. why wouldnt i get a work horse that can pretty much get what i need done and still not drain the wallet if i decide to drive it to the office?

and unless you have some sort of sway in bringing this truck here, i could give a **** less what you think or what your opinion is if i need a truck or not. you know nothing about me or my lifestyle to even make that sort of judgement call.

[Turbio!]

I wouldnt exactly dismiss it as - "well the only thing were missing is the diesel"

That would be a huge pro / purchase point for alot of people looking at this class of trucks... those motors are a couple small upgrades away from putting down some very good torque/power numbers while getting awesome mileage in a pick up.

Then why has almost every major manufacturer studied the business case for bringing a diesel here, in Ford's case to the point of having a 4.5L V8 TDCi ready for the F-150, and then shelved the idea?

I just don't think truck buyers, at this point, care about awesome mileage. Either they drive one as a DD and deal with the cost, or, like me, they have an efficient daily driver and a utility vehicle for when they need it.

I really dont see how VW would lose massive amounts of money shipping a few of these stateside to see what happens...

Stop right there. They'd hemorrhage money doing that. It costs tens of millions of dollars to certify a car for sale with EPA and DOT. They'd have to pass crash tests, certify emissions, develop emissions control equipment, and certify everything...regardless of whether they planned to sell 5000 or 50,000. Add in the insane cost of the Chicken Tax, and they'd have to be doing final assembly here, and they have plans already for Chattanooga. I can't see VW going to that expense for an experiment. It's balls out or nothing.

say what you will about the "demand not being great enough" and people being stuck in their ways. these things would go like hot cakes to the people serious about buying one - myself being one of them.

Do you already own a truck? Like right now, do you have a beater pickup for hauling crap, or an SUV for offroading, or something like that?

[x_GTI_x]

Then why has almost every major manufacturer studied

I just don't think truck buyers, at this point, care about awesome mileage. Either they drive one as a DD and deal with the cost, or, like me, they have an efficient daily driver and a utility vehicle for when they need it.



Stop right there. They'd hemorrhage money doing that. It costs tens of millions of dollars to certify a car for sale with EPA and DOT. They'd have to pass crash tests, certify emissions, develop emissions control equipment, and certify everything...regardless of whether they planned to sell 5000 or 50,000. Add in the insane cost of the Chicken Tax, and they'd have to be doing final assembly here.



Do you already own a truck? Like right now, do you have a beater pickup for hauling crap, or an SUV for offroading, or something like that?

see above... couldnt care less.

[Turbio!]

see above... couldnt care less.

You're insisting there's a market for this and that you are a perfect example of it. If you don't want to engage in discussion about that, if you are unwilling to hear any point of view that isn't unbridled optimism about this thing, then why are you even responding to people? If you're gonna insist that VW can just sell a few to see how it goes, you should be prepared to understand why that's not going to happen, or you should bow out and enjoy your fantasy without us naysayers raining on your parade. But whether you like it or not, or want to hear it or not, there are certain realities to entering the US car market with a diesel pickup.

And, really, are you truly a serious truck buyer? Really? Do you really need a pickup enough that you'd spend $35-40k on a brand new one, but not enough that you don't already own one? I don't really mean to make it confrontational, but unless you need a truck enough to have an old beater pickup or an SUV parked next to your DD, I don't think you're a committed enough buyer for VW to gamble on. I don't think I'm a committed enough buyer for VW to gamble on.

[keithR32]

Before buying the F-150 . I emailed VW about even the slightest possibility of the Amarok coming to the states and they said "no plans or future plans"
with that I went and got my 2nd choice 2012 F150 FX4 Eco-Boost.
Even though the gas mileage is not as good as Ford claims, My Eco-Boost is starting to grow on me.
the twin turbos have some lag there which annoys me but when they kick in the truck is quick and pulls hard.

[pwm]

I had a ranger in my driveway for 4 years prior, Im pretty sure i just mentioned how easy it would be to make power in one of these, and I also mentioned I wouldnt be excited for a stritctly 4x2 platform. so i touched on more than just looks and diesel, but ill say it again, diesel would be one of the main selling points for me on this truck. I dont care that your friend insist on talking numbers and payload of his hemi - i dont need to compensate.

if i wanted to talk numbers itd be about my car, not how far i can push the payload of my pickup truck to look like a dbag with a bunch of random **** stuffed in the back just to say i did.

Im about to start a turbo build on my car and will be getting the thing completely resprayed, so thats one vehicle down and my cabby is driven by my girlfriend 75% of the time. which would call for another car.

living in new england, and always hauling car parts/wood/etc.. in the back of a hatchback gets a little old. why wouldnt i get a work horse that can pretty much get what i need done and still not drain the wallet if i decide to drive it to the office?

and unless you have some sort of sway in bringing this truck here, i could give a **** less what you think or what your opinion is if i need a truck or not. you know nothing about me or my lifestyle to even make that sort of judgement call.

My post wasn't an indictment on you, so relax. I was saying (as I mentioned earlier in this thread) that, your anecdotal evidence aside, I don't see a huge market for it so I'm not surprised they haven't brought it here. When an entrenched competitor (Toyota) with the resources to bring a diesel powertrain, won't do it for a product with an insanely loyal following, I don't see the business case.

I like to think I'd buy one, but realistically I wouldn't. I don't see myself needing one anymore than I do now, and I make do without one so why would I sacrifice aspects I like in cars for a vehicle I don't really need? When it finally comes down to signing the check, I would guess a lot of potential buyers would feel the same way.

The point of my response to you can be boiled down to this: Truck buyers already have trucks and they are typically pretty loyal to their brands. The people I see claiming they'd buy an Amarok are typically dubbers who don't already own trucks, and likely don't really need a truck. If they did, they'd already have one. What little market is unserved by the current offerings isn't big enough to incur the expense.

[Turbio!]

I like to think I'd buy one, but realistically I wouldn't. I don't see myself needing one anymore than I do now, and I make do without one so why would I sacrifice aspects I like in cars for a vehicle I don't really need? When it finally comes down to signing the check, I would guess a lot of potential buyers would feel the same way.

And I think I'd like to buy one too...but honestly, my $8000, minty fresh ten year old 4Runner offroads like a champion, tows well, hauls five dudes and their field gear over some seriously awful gas field roads with aplomb, returns 22mpg highway, is comfortable and quiet in all circumstances, and will require replacement of basic wear items until Clthulhu returns. With the sporty, fuel-efficient DD I'm currently mulling over parked next to it...would I really opt to spend the same money on a jack of all trades? Really? Once you go with two cars, it's hard to go back.

[Shomegrown]

Then why has almost every major manufacturer studied the business case for bringing a diesel here, in Ford's case to the point of having a 4.5L V8 TDCi ready for the F-150, and then shelved the idea?

I was involved with Ford on that project. I can tell you (IMO), the decision is profit based, not demand based. I have little doubt any of the domestics could sell such a truck.

The issue is half tons fall into a stricter emissions class. They also fall into a lower price class. An emissions compliant diesel erodes much of the profit potential - and we all know half ton pickups are the profit kings of the car world. Not to mention it would be new technology, and given the financial instability of the big 3 five years back, they were scared and pulled the plug.

I've heard rumblings of one of the domestics getting serious about putting a small diesel V6 in a pickup. We'll see if that plays out.

[pwm]

I was involved with Ford on that project. I can tell you (IMO), the decision is profit based, not demand based. I have little doubt any of the domestics could sell such a truck.

The issue is half tons fall into a stricter emissions class. They also fall into a lower price class. An emissions compliant diesel erodes much of the profit potential - and we all know half ton pickups are the profit kings of the car world. Not to mention it would be new technology, and given the financial instability of the big 3 five years back, they were scared and pulled the plug.

I've heard rumblings of one of the domestics getting serious about putting a small diesel V6 in a pickup. We'll see if that plays out.

If there was sufficient demand, wouldn't the scale offset the added costs and meet the profit requirements? Ergo, there was no business case for Ford, let alone VW.

That's the point we've been trying to make. It sounds great, but when the entrenched majors aren't biting why should we expect VW to know something they don't?

[Shomegrown]

If there was sufficient demand, wouldn't the scale offset the added costs and meet the profit requirements? Ergo, there was no business case for Ford, let alone VW.

That's the point we've been trying to make. It sounds great, but when the entrenched majors aren't biting why should we expect VW to know something they don't?

Not if the profit differs by a factor of 5-10x which is what I imagine it would.

VW's situation is different because they already sell the diesel product in many other markets making investment costs easier to manage. VW's "break even point" in terms of sales volume would be far far lower than Ford's as they sell thousands upon thousands of the Amarok's engine all over the place.

[Fritz27]

If there was sufficient demand, wouldn't the scale offset the added costs and meet the profit requirements? Ergo, there was no business case for Ford, let alone VW.

That's the point we've been trying to make. It sounds great, but when the entrenched majors aren't biting why should we expect VW to know something they don't?

Maybe VW is used to earning tighter margins so they can better stomach it, whereas the domestics won't on their pickups.

I can't say I blame them if the domestics don't want to go diesel. I could see them being pretty popular especially as people move up the equipment ladder on their half tons. Then again, I think most people buying pickups that cost $35-40k or more can accept them getting 20 MPG as opposed to spending $40-45k and getting 25 MPG.