how much with n/a

[teejaybee]

Im just trying to widen my knowledge on the 2.5L but what can be done to the engine and how much power can you expect with out a turbo or Supercharger,

-CAI
-exhaust
-SRI
-clearly a flash

but what else is there?

[gabe@bwperformance]

That is pretty much the full list of mods that will give you a decent improvement and with a manual car you can expect around 210whp.

[teejaybee]

lol whys everything cost so much =[

But 210 is the most youll get with out Forced induction ?

[Cherb32]

Not too much aftermarket support for our engines....sucks.

I wish there was cams available for our cars. i heard C2 was testing some but didnt hear of any updates

[teejaybee]

yeah im not planing on doing it to my mk5 i want to get a mk2 gli and put a 2.5 in it and build that as a sleeper but seems that turbo may be the only way

[nickbeezy]

well the mkv chassis is much heavier compared to the mk2. josh at NLS swapped a 2.5 into his rabbit.
a built 2.5l in a mk2 would be a screamer.

id love to swap a 2.5 in to an older vw. i would personally be content with swapping the new motor in and putting a short runner manifold and cams(one day) then leave it at that.

[Teknojnky]

That is pretty much the full list of mods that will give you a decent improvement and with a manual car you can expect around 210whp.

I keep seeing 200+ whp but nothing for torque. What's the average tq numbers with the same mods?

Sent with the information provided from an electronic device.

[teejaybee]

and which say CAI would be suggested ive been leaning to the BSH but with being as low as i am my friend suggets doing a short ram intake instead but can i still get the same power from a short ram ? and say what exhaust exhaust me be personal due to sound but ive heard the TT exhaust and love the sound but its like 600-700$ lol

[mldouthi]

Not too much aftermarket support for our engines....sucks.

I wish there was cams available for our cars. i heard C2 was testing some but didnt hear of any updates

C2 is no longer working on cams.

[teejaybee]

daaa fukk whyyyy

[mldouthi]

daaa fukk whyyyy

To expensive.

I think there are some other companies working on them though. I think IE might be.

[Cherb32]

To expensive.

I think there are some other companies working on them though. I think IE might be.

I hear DSR has a few cams..but I havnt called them yet to see if they have anything for 2.5.

http://www.dynospotracing.com/

[mldouthi]

I hear DSR has a few cams..but I havnt called them yet to see if they have anything for 2.5.

http://www.dynospotracing.com/

That would be awesome, but the 2.5 doesnt get much love from companies outside the one that post in here.

I hope you prove me wrong.

[cbs_24]

daaa fukk whyyyy

They were going to cost many thousands of dollars.

[lessthanalex]

You could probably do a built bottom end with high compression and get a port n polish plus some customized software. But even then you might not see that much more power, although I'm not nearly well versed enough to make an appropriate guess.

[SocoJoe]

yeah im not planing on doing it to my mk5 i want to get a mk2 gli and put a 2.5 in it and build that as a sleeper but seems that turbo may be the only way

Same idea I want to do

[tay272]

You could probably do a built bottom end with high compression and get a port n polish plus some customized software. But even then you might not see that much more power, although I'm not nearly well versed enough to make an appropriate guess.

Cams are still pretty much a must to make decent power with high comp. Any way you go NA, Cams are a key factor in bringing out the most power from the engine in the higher rpm range.

[Bennett@C2Motorsports]

Ahhhhhhh yes... The cam discussion


We did some research and development for those cams back a couple years ago and decided against it due to the sheer cost of each cam and the small demand we anticipated for them. It was going to cost so much that we were afraid people would be scared away, basically, so we decided against it.

We love blazing trails in the scene (look at all we've done for the VR6, R32, and 2.5L Markets) but those software and hardware decisions had some demand behind them whereas the cams would have been a VERY expensive risk so we stuck with forced induction and came eventually came out with the SRI as well for the N/A guys

[lessthanalex]

I realize cams are pretty big for the top end, but what kind of gain would we be looking at doing high comp, valves, and port/polish?

[Cherb32]

Ahhhhhhh yes... The cam discussion


We did some research and development for those cams back a couple years ago and decided against it due to the sheer cost of each cam and the small demand we anticipated for them. It was going to cost so much that we were afraid people would be scared away, basically, so we decided against it.

We love blazing trails in the scene (look at all we've done for the VR6, R32, and 2.5L Markets) but those software and hardware decisions had some demand behind them whereas the cams would have been a VERY expensive risk so we stuck with forced induction and came eventually came out with the SRI as well for the N/A guys

Called DSR and they pretty much said the exact same thing. Its way too expensive for the risk and people would not buy it because they would expect high gains based on the price. They tried multiple grinds and didnt get much HP. So they scrapped the idea. Said the best option is to stick with the bolt ons or go FI. A port and polish job wouldnt give you much gains either for the price. I guess they have tried everything also. I think we may be at the end of the road for N/A (for those that have everything else). SRI would be the last step...

[lessthanalex]

From the sounds of it IE is working on something for us... INA has posted about port and polish before if I'm not mistaken. I think that with a mild cam setup, supposing that is what IE has eluded to, coupled with high compression, rods, valves, port and polish, and SRI that this engine would be able to make some pretty decent numbers NA.

[Cherb32]

From the sounds of it IE is working on something for us... INA has posted about port and polish before if I'm not mistaken. I think that with a mild cam setup, supposing that is what IE has eluded to, coupled with high compression, rods, valves, port and polish, and SRI that this engine would be able to make some pretty decent numbers NA.

I agree its gonna take a combination of things to see some real numbers. Sucks cause the other motors see a significant gain with just the use of a cam and nothing else. I guess it will all happen in due time.

Im thinking IE's package may run around ~$5-6k respectively for everything (with SRI)? The cams may be the most expensive part.

With that kind of price, youd be forced to go turbo with C2, unless you are a die hard N/A fan *shrug*

[lessthanalex]

For me I would probably stick to NA. I don't really have any "good" justification for this other than that I want to. Even though it would cost much more to do a full NA build, i like that you could definitely do it in pieces, as opposed to a turbo build which requires a larger initial up front cost. Yes the turbo makes more power and all that, but how much power do I really need for this car?

[tay272]

I agree with that, if money was not an option you better believe Id be doin an all out NA build on my Rabbit. Anyone can slap a turbo kit on their car and be done with it but it takes alot more work and dedication to make alot of power while still staying NA. I also just like the feeling of having that raw power always on tap, not having to wait for it kick in like a turbo or sc. To me its a more fulfilling build to keep it all motor. Then again, it would still be fulfilling to add a turbo on after the fact and have a real screamer haha.

[teejaybee]

Heres a question what tune would you guys go with im looking at the

United Motors Stage 1 n/a

only info they give is

Typical gains 15-18 whp and over 20+ ft/lbs over OEM. (on 93 octane gasoline) and is 299$

now theres

unitronic-chipped

says 181hp-190lb/tq on 91 octane

Engineered with Strict Industry Standards
Extensively Tested Under Various Driving Conditions
Volkswagen Factory Safety Limiters Retained
Greatest Power and Torque Gains in the Industry, Guaranteed!
Optimized Responsiveness and Drivability
Optimized Smoothness and Driving Comfort
Improved Fuel Efficiency
Speed Governor Removed
RPM Limiter Increased to 6500
Idle RPM Raised to 750
RPM Hang (REV Hang) Between Shifts Removed


i plan on running a short ram intake with my car too just picking which one right now this is all going on a xmas list =]

[DerekH]

Go with C2 or UM, unitronic isn't really supporting the community any more.

If you search about it you can get more details but that is the basics.

[lessthanalex]

Go with C2 or UM, unitronic isn't really supporting the community any more.

If you search about it you can get more details but that is the basics.

x2 I have Unitronic and like it a lot but if you ever intend on going past stage 2 it does not appear as though they are interested in the 2.5L anymore. I plan on giving them a good hard push to give me support when I add SRI, but if/when that happens I'll make sure to post about it either way.

[mldouthi]

I agree with that, if money was not an option you better believe Id be doin an all out NA build on my Rabbit. Anyone can slap a turbo kit on their car and be done with it but it takes alot more work and dedication to make alot of power while still staying NA. I also just like the feeling of having that raw power always on tap, not having to wait for it kick in like a turbo or sc. To me its a more fulfilling build to keep it all motor. Then again, it would still be fulfilling to add a turbo on after the fact and have a real screamer haha.

Ive never felt a SC kick in, they are pretty much always on.


Also what others have said and thygret will tell you, unitronic is not the way to go.

[tay272]

haha my bad, yeah they are always on thats true. another reason id do a sc over a turbo any day. yeah they might not be as efficient n everything but i like the way they make power. and hearin that whine juust tops it all, especially if its a lysholm charger.

[DerekH]

Id do an supercharger over a turbo because superchargers are cooler lol.

[teejaybee]

wish this would stay on helping me =[


but so between C2 and UM ive been told to lean to UM

I plan on doing CAI and exhaust ive been looking around for headers and testpipe to do a complete exhaust system and do a tune with it but should i get cai first then tune or does that matter?

[mldouthi]

wish this would stay on helping me =[


but so between C2 and UM ive been told to lean to UM

I plan on doing CAI and exhaust ive been looking around for headers and testpipe to do a complete exhaust system and do a tune with it but should i get cai first then tune or does that matter?

Sorry for the detour.

C2 or UM, both will be able to help. Check to see who has closer local support.

Definitely get the hardware before software. The tunes are also different if you only have a CAI vs a CAI and full exhaust.

[teejaybee]

alright ive been looking at doing the usp test pipe and im in the air about the rest of it with catback i wanta sporty sound i love the sound of like 350z's/370z's also the g35 but i doubt ill get close to a sporty sound with this engine unless im wrong

[mldouthi]

alright ive been looking at doing the usp test pipe and im in the air about the rest of it with catback i wanta sporty sound i love the sound of like 350z's/370z's also the g35 but i doubt ill get close to a sporty sound with this engine unless im wrong

You are wrong These engines sound mean with header, catless and aftermarket muffler. I love the sound, right up there with VR6.

I dont know if they still have them, but RAI was having a sale on there test pipes

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...Test-Pipe-Sale

and another thread with pictures and videos from someone that bought one.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...&highlight=rai

[lessthanalex]

These engines sound unreal with full exhaust (EJ header to AWE catback in my case). I ran Unitronic stage 2 software with the headers/high flow cat mated to stock catback for a year with no problems. Honestly you can probably do it in whatever order you choose and still get a decent benefit. I would recommend starting with the test pipe/headers before catback because the car is quite loud with the full setup. Headers/test pipe gives you a solid amount of roar under load but it not noticeable when cruising.