Valve adjustment issues.

[asadjewonxmas]

Ok so im a noob when it comes to more indepth work like this. i have tried twice and failed at doing this correctly and getting my bike running. 92 Ninja 600 valves do not have shims and just need the screw adjusted and then the lock nut put in place. the manual i have has poor picuters and diagrams and i believe i was mis under standing my cousins help via phone. ( he is a mechanic and now teaches at UTI in orland so he knows his stuff, however i believe im just not comprehending everything. Bike should start and does which means i have something mis adjusted. Im also leaking coolant out each side of the head. There are small holes which i have read appear to be weep holes for the spark plugs and that means that the coolant inlet pipes are leaking. so i think i have a few issues. need new orings for the coolant pipes so i stop pissing coolant and getting the plugs wet. also i need someone that can easily explain how the lobe on the cam should be positioned when in TDC. Pictures would be great. i watched one you tube video for my bike but they guy did it at like 4am and its dark as he just used a flashlight to try and point things out.

Thanks,
Joe

[asadjewonxmas]

doing more research. if anyone knows please chime in.
http://www.ex-500.com/wiki/index.php...nce_adjustment

this is how to do it on a ninja 500 not at all what i did on mine so i think ive made a few more errors. in the pictures you see the feeler guage under the adjuster for each valve. i was adjusting those but had the feeler guage in between the cam lobe and the strike plate for the valves. so i think i mis measure and adjusted wrong. also i still may have had the cams alligned wrong.

[blue70beetle]

Generally, you need to find top dead center on the compression stroke for cylinder 1. There's normally a mark to indicate when the crank is at TDC, but you have to be sure it's compression, and not exhaust. There should be room to slip your feeler gauge in under each adjuster. Adjust, lock, done.

I should note that you don't tighten the adjuster down onto the feeler gauge hard - you don't want it sloppy but you don't want it right. It should slip in.

Rotate the crank backwards 180 degrees and this will put you at TDC compression for #2. Repeat for 4, and then 3. Done.

This assumes it's the typical inline 4 firing order of 1-3-4-2.

[asadjewonxmas]

still having trouble with the bike. i fixed the coolant leak and tried to do the valves again measureing based on the ex500 diagrams since the pics were better. i believe i had tdc for 1 and 4 correct this time. still hard to start and only runs with the choke on. its 70 out i shouldnt needed any choke to start. im starting to think i still have a valvle adjustment problem and possibly the carbs are to far out of sync and that the piot screw is not adjusted to the correct turns out. im kinda out of ideas on what to check. If anyone is near the chicago area i would love some help and am willing to pay some $$ or beer for any help to get this thing running without dumping mass amounts of $$ into it as ive spent about the max that i will ever see on a return if i sell it as a running bike.

[blue70beetle]

When #1 is at TDC compression, you should be able to feel a slight amount of play in the rockers. If you can't, you have a valve adjustment issue.

Now rotate the crank 180 degrees *backwards* and check #2. Again, should have a little play.

Now rotate another 180 backwards, and check #4. Again, a little play.

Now rotate another 180 backwards, and check the same thing on #3.

If you get this far, report back and let us know what you found. If the rockers check out as indicated, you should be fine on valve adjustment, and your problem is somewhere else.

[pknopp]

You can get the entire thing spot on and if the plugs are wet it isn't going to start.

[blue70beetle]

But he said it started. It's not wet plugs.

[pknopp]

He has to stop the coolant leaks.

[gr8shandini]

It sounds like he did. Running only on choke sounds like a carb problem, not valves. How long has the bike been sitting?

[asadjewonxmas]

bikes only been sitting for like two weeks. it ran prior but always required choke to start carbs were cleaned and rebuilt. floats are at the right hight. piolt screw is 2.5 turns out as the bike was definetly lean at 2 turns out. i tried to sync but was only pulling 5-7lbs of vac on the guages and it should be near 18lbs so i was told next step was valve adjustment which could explain the excess need for choke on cold starts and the hard start issues. i believe they are adjusted correctly now.

the coolant leak is fixed it was the o-rings on the inlet pipes going into the head. They were leaking and coolant was coming out the spark plug weap holes in the side of the head. plugs were taken out and seemed dry I still wiped them down to be sure) right now it seems as the battery is trash even if its ont he charger. with choke and jumping the battery i can get it to kick over. but i wont do so on its own.

carbs may be way out of sync as they were set prior to the valve adjustment i think i may need to bench sync them for a better baseline. but the bike did run prior to all this work. gas is good and not very old i did have spark i know ive got gas so somewhere something is miss adjusted cuz it should run.

[pknopp]

Check for air leaks around the base of the carbs. Start the bike and spray the bases with carb cleaner. If you notice a difference in rpm, you have a leak.

Get a fresh set of plugs and battery. You have to have the basics right first.

[asadjewonxmas]

leaks were checked prior to the valve adjustment and none were found. battery needs to be tested. plugs i think are ok i was still seing a spark when i tested. but i understand covering the basics 1st

[pknopp]

I've never had good luck with a weak battery and plugs that have been previously fouled. I'm just relating my experience.

[Mooosman]

When #1 is at TDC compression, you should be able to feel a slight amount of play in the rockers. If you can't, you have a valve adjustment issue.

Now rotate the crank 180 degrees *backwards* and check #2. Again, should have a little play.

Now rotate another 180 backwards, and check #4. Again, a little play.

Now rotate another 180 backwards, and check the same thing on #3.

Woah, every bike service manual I've ever had has specifically said NOT TO rotate the crank backwards for any reason if the engine is OHC. They have all warned of damage to the chain tensioner assembly/tensioner guide blocks, etc. I have even seen the warning in car service manuals for chain-driven OHC apps.





To the OP, I'll list the procedure that I use to adjust valves. It'll work on anything; car, motorcycle, lawnmower, etc.

Most bikes now have a removable plug on one side of the crankcase where you can use a socket and ratchet to rotate the crank. If not, you can use the electric starter by leaving the kill switch in the 'off' position, turning the key on, then bumping the starter button. It takes longer this way, though. It's much easier if you can use a ratchet.


1. Pick a cylinder to start with. Just start at one end and work your way down, you don't have to go by firing order, as we will be turning the engine over several times.

2. Look at your exhaust rocker and exhaust valve for the cylinder you're adjusting. Now, rotate the crank until you see the exhaust valve just barely start to open. When you see the valve just barely move down, stop.

3. Now, adjust the INTAKE valve(s) for that cylinder to your desired setting. Remember that you're looking for a slight drag when you run the feeler gauge through.

4. Next, rotate the crank until you see the intake valve(s) start to open. Slowly continue rotating until you see the intake valves get to the bottom of their movement and begin to close again. Stop.

5. Adjust the EXHAUST valve(s) for that cylinder.

6. Move to the next cylinder and follow the same procedure.


I like to set the valves to the loose side of the specs, especially on the exhaust valves. The spec for your bike should be listed in your repair manual.


Good luck

[blue70beetle]

Oh, good point. Wasn't thinking of that. My bike is a thumper, so four valves in one position and I'm done. I've done it a million times on ACVWs, but they're pushrod engines - you could run them backwards if the valve timing allowed it and you wouldn't hurt much!

[asadjewonxmas]

hoping to get a friend out this weekend to look at the bike. I really wanna ride. I can offer a bit of money or beer to anyone who wants to come help me get it running.

[asadjewonxmas]

also if anyone can clarify where do you measure? I have seen different illustrations showing the feeler gauge between the cam lobe and rocker arm or between the tappet adjuster and top of the valve spring?

[Mooosman]

The feeler gauge goes between the valve adjuster and the tip of the valve (on bikes with rocker arms), or between the cam lobe and the lifter (on bikes without rocker arms).


If yours has regular screw and locknut adjusters, it goes between the adjuster and the valve tip.

[asadjewonxmas]

Thanks that's what I thought. I have the screw type.

[asadjewonxmas]

still havent had an opportunity to go work on the bike. Im going to try this weekend. If the valves end up at the correct adjustment but the bike still doesnt want to start is my next best bet to check over the electrical? (plugs, coils, batt)

[asadjewonxmas]

re adjusted correctly everything was aligned this time crank and cams all valves were adjusted properly intake to .006 and exhaust to .008. each of those numbers was the middle of the allowable range so on each side i took a feeler just larger than aceptable and tested that so a .008 for the intake and a .010 for the exhaust and was unable to slide them in so they should be correct this time. i bench sync'd the carbs so all butterflys are alligned and and rechecked that the piolt screws are all set at 2.5 turns out. i have gas in all four carb bowls and a blue spark at each plug.

the bike wont fire it cranks for days but doesnt try to turn over.

i think my next step is a compression test to see if i killed the valves when i miss measured/adjusted the first two times. If anyone else has any ideas of what to check please let me know. Ive also put in a new battery as the old one was shot. This one is sitting solid at 13v

[blue70beetle]

Do you have spark?

[pknopp]

Have you tried a shot of starting fluid?

it's just me........Even though you have spark I'd be doing this with fresh plugs.

[asadjewonxmas]

i do have spark on each cyclinder. i didnt change plugs they looked ok. slightly oily but not horible.

[blue70beetle]

Have you verified that you have fuel? Not just in the tank, but actually getting to the cylinders...

If you turn the crank by hand, do you feel compression?

I'd go with a quick shot of ether too. Not too much...not sure about small engines, but it can cause crazy ring flutter in larger engines.

[pknopp]

i do have spark on each cyclinder. i didnt change plugs they looked ok. slightly oily but not horible.

Plugs are not supposed to be "slightly oily".

[pknopp]

Have you verified that you have fuel? Not just in the tank, but actually getting to the cylinders...

If you turn the crank by hand, do you feel compression?

I'd go with a quick shot of ether too. Not too much...not sure about small engines, but it can cause crazy ring flutter in larger engines.

Just a quick shot to see if it fires.

[asadjewonxmas]

i did not try any starter fluid. ill change the plugs too. i feel some presure when i was rotating it over with the plugs out and more pressure with the plugs in. i do feel some air being moved out the tail pipes too when trying to start the bike. there is gas in the tank and carbs i dont know if its reaching the motor. I dont smell any gas out the exhaust.

[asadjewonxmas]

btw thanks everyone for any input. i really want to ride this thing again.

[pknopp]

Pull the plug and put your finger over the hole while turning it over. You'll know if you have compression.

The ether is to rule out or in getting fuel. It doesn't have to run but if it hits on ether, yo uaren't getting fuel. Don't spray it full. Just a quick spray into the carbs is enough. I even spray from back a bit so it's mostly mist as opposed to a direct hit.

Spray too much and you'll flood the plugs.

[asadjewonxmas]

Its finally running thanks everyone. tried the finger over the hole test and it had compression. hit it with starter fluid and bam it came to life. got it to idle solid at 1100 and it revs and rides all the way to red line. throttle sticks and hangs at about 6k so i have to adjust the cables and i have a minor drip from the 1 and 2 carbs. once i fix those issues it will be completely solid and safe to ride.