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    Thread: Engine Swap In a 2005.5 Jetta: CBUA Replaces BGP; It Is Possible

    1. 05-07-2012 11:09 AM #1
      I posted this in the MK V forum, but thought the 2.5 engine forum was more appropriate.

      My son's 2005.5 Jetta with a the 2.5 liter BGP engine recently had its timing chain slip, trashing the valves. This is a problem with the BGP engine. The later 2.5 liter engine, the CBUA, was engineered to prevent this major failure.

      I just installed a CBUA from a 2011 Jetta, totaled with only 860 miles on it. Yes, 860, under 1000. The staff at the salvage yard where I bought the "new" engine from could not guarantee the swap would be successful because their information stated, "Must use same engine code" when replacing a BGP engine.

      When starting this project I thought it would work, but had some doubts. I now know; it works flawlessly (not even a check engine light) and would like to share my experience. Rather than go through the entire swap story again, here is a link to a thread that covers what I did. I also can answer any questions you may have concerning this swap. Take a look here:

      http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=348476

      --Nate

    2. Member GTACanuck's Avatar
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      05-07-2012 11:15 AM #2
      Thats pretty sweet! Did you change the ECU with it with the one from the wreck?

    3. 05-07-2012 11:36 AM #3
      No. I used all the 2005.5 stuff where the part numbers differed. On items where the part numbers were the same, (or superceded to a new number) I used the items from the CBUA (2011) motor, since they are newer. For example, the fuel injectors are different part numers between the two engines, so I put the old intake with injectors on the new motor. The O2 sensor and engine speed sensors were the same part numbers, so I left them on the new motor..

      The CBUA has an entirely different engine management system, with more pins on the ECU, so to prevent CELs, and other issues, I stayed with all the BGP engine management stuff.

      Also, the new engine came from an automatic tranny Jetta and was transplanted into a 5-speed. Supposidly the ECUs are different, depending on the transmission. In addition, if I used the new ECU, I would have to have it programmed to work with the imobilizer in the instrument cluster of the 2005.5

      --Nate

    4. Member alwaysdutch's Avatar
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      05-07-2012 02:01 PM #4
      Welcome to the swap club......
      **- 2005.5 VW Jetta Package 2 with 2008 2.5L -**
      BFI stage 2 transmission mounts

    5. 05-07-2012 06:09 PM #5
      Good info to have, i have been planning on doing a swap and was wondering if this was the case.

      Thanks!

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      05-08-2012 10:56 AM #6
      Thanks for the info. Looks like I'll do this whenever my chain goes.

    7. 05-11-2012 09:21 PM #7
      The cbua engine has a redesigned intake manifold that makes more power and torque but at a slightly higher rpm than the bgp one does. The runners are shorter inside and you cannot notice this on the outside. bgp makes 150hp and cbua makes 170. Also, the 2011 jetta has individual tube headers whereas yours has a stamped manifold.
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    8. Member dhenry's Avatar
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      05-12-2012 12:53 AM #8
      Quote Originally Posted by rustlerdude View Post
      The cbua engine has a redesigned intake manifold that makes more power and torque but at a slightly higher rpm than the bgp one does. The runners are shorter inside and you cannot notice this on the outside. bgp makes 150hp and cbua makes 170. Also, the 2011 jetta has individual tube headers whereas yours has a stamped manifold.
      do you think i could get an exhuast manifold off an 2011 jetta and gain anything? is it similar to the eurojet design?
      follow me @dominickhenry | 2.5l UM tuned! | SCCA Solo FSP class |Flickr | Build Thread | FS Benz wheels

    9. 05-19-2012 05:35 PM #9
      Quote Originally Posted by rustlerdude View Post
      The cbua engine has a redesigned intake manifold that makes more power and torque but at a slightly higher rpm than the bgp one does. The runners are shorter inside and you cannot notice this on the outside. bgp makes 150hp and cbua makes 170. Also, the 2011 jetta has individual tube headers whereas yours has a stamped manifold.
      The exhaust manifolds appear to be the same, but I'll double check. I used the exhaust manifold on the CBUA (left it on). After I installed the motor I did notice that the exhaust manifold heat shields are different. Before the swap, it would have been so easy to switch the heat shields. It appears the plastic round pipe on the engine cover of the BGP matches up with a hole in the heat shield to get heated air when it is cold. The BGP heat shield also has a hole in it for the O2 sensor, whereas the CBUA heat shield does not have this larger hole for the pre heat (has a little bitty hole) and has a stamped chanel for the O2 sensor so the shield can be removed without removing the sensor (probably for ease of factory assembly).

      I used the intake manifold off of the BGP because the CBUA injectors were a different part number than the BGP injectors and the BGP injector number did not supercede to the CBUA number (I wanted to avoid any potential incompatabilities). Since the injectors were installed in the manifolds, I did not want to buy new injector seals. The throttle housing was also left on the BGP manifold, along with its clamped on small coolant hoses. The CBUA did not come with a throttle housing and it has completely different electronics anyway and has to be matched to the ECU.

      I was going to order new intake manifold O-ring seals, BUT THEY WERE $32 EACH! I thought they would have been $5 at most. I used the intake O-rings with 853 miles on them off of the CBUA and they seal fine. It saved me $160!

      My son reports still flawlwss operation and the A/C blows ice cold (I had to discharge the system for the swap and I replaced the receiver-drier and evacuated and weighed in 18.5 ounces of R134-a).

      --Nate
      Last edited by pdjetta; 05-19-2012 at 05:54 PM.

    10. 05-19-2012 06:25 PM #10
      I was wondering about the ac and how you dealt with it.

      I may just remove it all when i do mine.

    11. 05-20-2012 04:55 PM #11
      I was hoping to leave the A/C lines attached, but no way! I removed the whole front carrier, radiator, condensor, bumper and cover and headlights and pulled the engine and transaxle together right out of the front. Not knowing this engine, and due to the lack of space to get to stuff, there was no way I could have disconnected everything without removing the front first. It was so easy to work on after getting the front removed. I even had to remove the A/C suction line from the car, because it bent over in front of the drivetrain's path for removal. Hopefully these links to my pictures on another forum work:

      http://pics.tdiclub.com/showphoto.ph...-00744&cat=all

      http://pics.tdiclub.com/showphoto.ph...-01293&cat=all

      http://pics.tdiclub.com/showphoto.ph...-01978&cat=all

      http://pics.tdiclub.com/showphoto.ph...-01955&cat=all

      http://pics.tdiclub.com/showphoto.ph...-01043&cat=all

      http://pics.tdiclub.com/showphoto.ph...-01113&cat=all

      http://pics.tdiclub.com/showphoto.ph...-02002&cat=all

      http://pics.tdiclub.com/showphoto.ph...-02024&cat=all

      Here is the link to pictures of the totaled Jetta that the CBUA came out of. I was wrong about the mileage, it is 823 miles.

      http://www.weberbrothersauto.com/Veh....aspx?sn=LA433


      --Nate
      Last edited by pdjetta; 05-20-2012 at 05:18 PM.

    12. 05-20-2012 05:56 PM #12
      Pics dont work but i have a pretty good idea of what you mean. I was thinking i would pull everything together and do a lsd install while i had it all apart. Depending on how my budget works out anyways.

      Thanks


    13. 05-21-2012 09:27 AM #14
      Thanks for the pics, how long did the job take you? I'm hoping to get it done in a weekend, do you think that is too ambitious?

    14. 05-21-2012 11:07 AM #15
      I have a full-time job, so I worked around that. I figure I spent a bunch of hours doing research and collecting parts (gaskets, bolts, clutch, etc). I had my son's car a little over a month and spent probably 50 - 70 hours working on it, not counting the research and waiting for parts, and the like. I spent about 8 hours a day for three weekends and a few hours on it a couple weeknights each week. The first week was spent just trying to figure out what to do, and once I decided on a swap, I got going on it.

      I would allow a couple of weekends if you don't have help. Make sure you have parts ahead of time and even then, you may find you need something else.

      Tip: I got my parts through 1stvwparts.com, which is Auburn VW in Washington state, and their internet prices are about 40% off of local dealer retail and UPS ground shipping is really inexpensive.

      The solid mass flywheel clutch kit came from FourSeasons tuning and was right at $500.

      I spent about $2700 on the swap, including the clutch. For grins I called a reputable VW shop and asked them "how much" after explaining what happened and I was quoted in the ballpark of $7,500 if they repaired the old BGP and $9,500 if they installed a VW long block (of course, the shop sugegsted the long block). The car is not even worth the latter figure and is worth about what the first figure was. And if I had it repaired, I would have not gotten all the new goodies that were on the CBUA I got, nor a new clutch. The old clutch was about 2/3 to 3/4 used up, I estimated.

      --Nate
      Last edited by pdjetta; 05-21-2012 at 11:16 AM.

    15. 05-21-2012 11:27 AM #16
      Quote Originally Posted by pdjetta View Post
      I have a full-time job, so I worked around that. I figure I spent a bunch of hours doing research and collecting parts (gaskets, bolts, clutch, etc). I had my son's car a little over a month and spent probably 50 - 70 hours working on it, not counting the research and waiting for parts, and the like. I spent about 8 hours a day for three weekends and a few hours on it a couple weeknights each week. The first week was spent just trying to figure out what to do, and once I decided on a swap, I got going on it.

      I would allow a couple of weekends if you don't have help. Make sure you have parts ahead of time and even then, you may find you need something else.

      Tip: I got my parts through 1stvwparts.com, which is Auburn VW in Washington state, and their internet prices are about 40% off of local dealer retail and UPS ground shipping is really inexpensive.

      The solid mass flywheel clutch kit came from FourSeasons tuning and was right at $500.

      I spent about $2700 on the swap, including the clutch. For grins I called a reputable VW shop and asked them "how much" after explaining what happened and I was quoted in the ballpark of $7,500 if they repaired the old BGP and $9,500 if they installed a VW long block (of course, the shop sugegsted the long block). The car is not even worth the latter figure and is worth about what the first figure was. And if I had it repaired, I would have not gotten all the new goodies that were on the CBUA I got, nor a new clutch. The old clutch was about 2/3 to 3/4 used up, I estimated.

      --Nate
      Thanks for the tips Nate. A bunch of my friends said they would help me out with the swap. so that should help cut the time down. Plus i have some guides to help me out which should cut some off too seeing as you didn't have much to go off of. How did you deal with the ac system?

    16. 05-21-2012 12:48 PM #17
      For the A/C, I was originally hoping to leave the refrigerant lines attached (I did that with an A2 Jetta for an engine swap once), but I soon realized I could not. I discharged the system, using the low, then high service ports, did it slowly to prevent oil loss and in about 5 minutes, the refrigerant was discharged (I suspect it was low on refrigerant, due to the quick discharge). I removed the condenser with all the other stuff in front of the engine. I did not remove it with the radiator, but seperated the two from the carrier upon removal. I removed the compressor from the old engine before pulling it (along with the alternator). Just before removing the engine I discovered that the suction line had to be disconnected from the evaporator and its retaining line straps and removed from the car, for clearance for the engine to come out.

      I placed aluminum foil over all A/C line ends and on the A/C components where the lines were disconnected to keep trash out of them.

      I ordered a new receiver drier ($35) and all new A/C line O-rings for the lines I disconnected from 1stvwparts.com . I ordered an 8 ounce bottle of PAG 46 A/C oil from Advance Auto Parts.

      I installed the alternator and A/C compressor and new belts before installing the new engine. I then added approximately one ounce of PAG 46 oil into the compressor, through the suction connection on the compressor. I then rotated the compereessor by hand a few turns (states to do this in the Bentley manual after adding oil).

      After the engine was installed, I hooked up the A/C hoses I disconnected, coating the new O-rings with PAG 46 oil. I then, just before sealing the system, installed the new receiver drier (comes with its O-rings and new screws) on the condensor, and mounted the condensor and its refrigerant lines. Then, within minutes, I hooked up my new A/C vacuum pump and set of manifold guages and let it run for about 40 minutes. It vacuumed through both the high and low service ports (both guage valves "open"). I noted that the system held vacuum, closed the "high" side valve on the guage set and then I tapped a 12 ounce can of R-134a and held it upright (for gas) and from the vacuum in the system, the low service port took most of it over the next few hours. By that time, the engine was ready to start and then, I metered in the rest of the refrigerant with the engine idling, disconnecting the second can occassionally to weigh it with its valve, using a food scale. I put in right at 18.5 ounces of R-134a, a full charge.

      --Nate
      Last edited by pdjetta; 05-21-2012 at 01:00 PM.

    17. 05-21-2012 06:51 PM #18
      That seems like a lot of work for something that i have used maybe 5 times since i got the car lol.

      Thanks though, definitely helps me make an informed decision.

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