TT-RS GIAC Stage 1

[J662]

Just had GIAC flash my ECU today. Great guys up there and top notch team.

About the upgrade :

Absolutely amazing. I can't believe how much smoother it is going through the gears. It is silky smooth (as blackbeautty put it in another post) and the performance is a joke. Simply put, the car is faster than sh*t now and pulls incredibly hard. Highly recommended...for the smoothness alone!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Quisp]

Sounds good! How is the gas pedall feel? In sprt mode now it seems fairly touchy, is it the same after the GIAC or is it a little smoother as well?

[J662]

Sounds good! How is the gas pedall feel? In sprt mode now it seems fairly touchy, is it the same after the GIAC or is it a little smoother as well?

Gas pedal feel is fantastic. Yes, sport mode is touchy still but I'd say it's smoother and not *as* touchy.

I think once you get use to driving in sport mode all the time it's hard to drive in regular mode because it's too soft. That's def a personal preference though. If you're one that likes to sync the rev's all of the time and likes that "strung out" feeling then you'll be driving in sport mode.

Sport mode or regular mode, the stage one is way smoother than the factory mapping.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Marty]

Gas pedal feel is fantastic. Yes, sport mode is touchy still but I'd say it's smoother and not *as* touchy.

I think once you get use to driving in sport mode all the time it's hard to drive in regular mode because it's too soft. That's def a personal preference though. If you're one that likes to sync the rev's all of the time and likes that "strung out" feeling then you'll be driving in sport mode.

Sport mode or regular mode, the stage one is way smoother than the factory mapping.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Smoother in what way?

[- Jeremy -]

Smoother in what way?

Yeah, I don't really understand the smoothness comments about these ECU tunes. The factory dyno graph isn't exactly peaky. Power is laid down smoothly across the curve. Maybe it's just the throttle position mapping that's "smoother"? I've never thought to complain about the stock throttle map. Seems fine to me.

- Jeremy -

[Koa1]

I agree that Stock reg mode is very frustrating. I stab the gas to match the revs and the car responds by saying F*ck Off! Stock sport mode is much better but, overall, the drive by wire throttle on this car doesnt come close to approximating a direct linkage. So a few questions:

1) Does the GIAC map make the throttle feel more like a direct linkage? More linear feel?
2) Where did u get it installed and what was the cost?
3) Did they have to cut into the plastic to access the ECU?
4) How confident are u that the dealership wont find the map and void the warranty?

[Black BeauTTy]

I agree that Stock reg mode is very frustrating. I stab the gas to match the revs and the car responds by saying F*ck Off! Stock sport mode is much better but, overall, the drive by wire throttle on this car doesnt come close to approximating a direct linkage. So a few questions:

1) Does the GIAC map make the throttle feel more like a direct linkage? More linear feel?
2) Where did u get it installed and what was the cost?
3) Did they have to cut into the plastic to access the ECU?
4) How confident are u that the dealership wont find the map and void the warranty?

1) I have GIAC stage 2 and haven't noticed any change in the throttle response. I wish it were in the middle of the two settings, honestly. Having said that, I drive in non sport mode most of the time because I find the throttle least bothersome in that mode. I think what he might be referring to is the amount of low end power is noticeably improved and that gives the feeling of a more responsive throttle. It is pretty strong even at low levels of boost so seems to react more linearly to throttle inputs.

2) AWE, check their site for pricing
3) I was a development car so they had to open mine, not sure if that will continue to be the case but I don't think so. I think it is done through OBD port.
4) you can turn it back to stock with GIAC Flashloader. I guess I'll find out next time at the dealer but I think we are fine with the RS ECU and the TD1 code.

[J662]

I agree that Stock reg mode is very frustrating. I stab the gas to match the revs and the car responds by saying F*ck Off! Stock sport mode is much better but, overall, the drive by wire throttle on this car doesnt come close to approximating a direct linkage. So a few questions:

1) Does the GIAC map make the throttle feel more like a direct linkage? More linear feel?
2) Where did u get it installed and what was the cost?
3) Did they have to cut into the plastic to access the ECU?
4) How confident are u that the dealership wont find the map and void the warranty?

1. See blackbeautty comment cause that is accurate. It is definitely way more linear. I think that where the smooth as silk comment comes from.

2. It was 1k for stage 1. Stage 2 is a little more. Giac did it since I was so close. You can also call TAG motorsports as they are in SD and have a good reputation. Ask for Will.

3 They didn't have to cut into any plastic. They have to remove the plastic panel by the wipers to access the ecu but they did a flawless job. I am neurotic and would have noticed a spec or scratch but it was perfect.

4. There's no doubt of risk here but I think for a dealer to find it and void the warranty...I'm confident that's probably pretty low. It is possible the TT-RS has the TD1 actually so yes it's possible they could detect...




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[J662]

Yeah, I don't really understand the smoothness comments about these ECU tunes. The factory dyno graph isn't exactly peaky. Power is laid down smoothly across the curve. Maybe it's just the throttle position mapping that's "smoother"? I've never thought to complain about the stock throttle map. Seems fine to me.

- Jeremy -

It's definitely fine stock but if you have a chance to drive one with the tune you will "feel" the difference, which IMO is considerable. More linear is the best way to describe it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[DrDomm]

J662, did you get the FlashLoader? Like it?

Also, Arin@APR says that the TTRS ECU does not generate TD1 codes. Still, there is a risk that a dealer could deny warranty coverage if they believe you have a modified car. My "reading between the lines" makes me believe that it's really Audi that wants to void warranties on modded cars, not dealers. That's why Audi is moving toward ECU's that generate TD1 codes...then the dealer has no way of asking Audi for reimbursement on warranty work. Remember, dealers are the guys that sell you cars...they don't want to be the "bad guy". As long as Audi pays them for "warranty work", they shouldn't care if you mod your car.

Lastly, did GIAC charge you extra for removing the ECU? Or does the advertised price include that service? I wonder about AWE and other shops.

[J662]

J662, did you get the FlashLoader? Like it?

Also, Arin@APR says that the TTRS ECU does not generate TD1 codes. Still, there is a risk that a dealer could deny warranty coverage if they believe you have a modified car. My "reading between the lines" makes me believe that it's really Audi that wants to void warranties on modded cars, not dealers. That's why Audi is moving toward ECU's that generate TD1 codes...then the dealer has no way of asking Audi for reimbursement on warranty work. Remember, dealers are the guys that sell you cars...they don't want to be the "bad guy". As long as Audi pays them for "warranty work", they shouldn't care if you mod your car.

Lastly, did GIAC charge you extra for removing the ECU? Or does the advertised price include that service? I wonder about AWE and other shops.

What you state about the warranty I'd agree with. I don't know if the comment from Arin at apr is correct...I've heard "the ghost is in fact in the machine" so we shall see.

The flash loader is pretty sweet. I have an iPhone so the app is not out yet but if you have an android phone they've got a slick bluetooth interface. The flash loader that I have plugs in to the obd port, works flawlessly so far and is easy to use. There is a valet mode that basically disables the turbo etc., there is a stock mode and a race mode which is for 100 octane. I am trying to locate a gas station that has 100 octane so I can test. Apparently the diff between race mode and port mode (91 octane) is significant. Can't even imagine what that's like given how fast it is now.

For what its worth, since i know some of you guys are as neurotic as I am and very selective with what is going to be on the car (especially when it comes to brain surgery ha) I felt like the guys at GIAC know their s*it inside and out. Their focus is software and they've been doing it since 1991. Also, not knocking any other tuners, I'm just stating my opinion and the ecu tuner I felt comfortable using...



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Marty]

What you state about the warranty I'd agree with. I don't know if the comment from Arin at apr is correct...I've heard "the ghost is in fact in the machine" so we shall see.

The flash loader is pretty sweet. I have an iPhone so the app is not out yet but if you have an android phone they've got a slick bluetooth interface. The flash loader that I have plugs in to the obd port, works flawlessly so far and is easy to use. There is a valet mode that basically disables the turbo etc., there is a stock mode and a race mode which is for 100 octane. I am trying to locate a gas station that has 100 octane so I can test. Apparently the diff between race mode and port mode (91 octane) is significant. Can't even imagine what that's like given how fast it is now.

For what its worth, since i know some of you guys are as neurotic as I am and very selective with what is going to be on the car (especially when it comes to brain surgery ha) I felt like the guys at GIAC know their s*it inside and out. Their focus is software and they've been doing it since 1991. Also, not knocking any other tuners, I'm just stating my opinion and the ecu tuner I felt comfortable using...



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

In the past, GIAC has used hardware encryption which involves soldering their own little hack board on to your ECU. Do you know if they did that for yours, or if they just reflashed the existing chip with some temporary connections?

[J662]

In the past, GIAC has used hardware encryption which involves soldering their own little hack board on to your ECU. Do you know if they did that for yours, or if they just reflashed the existing chip with some temporary connections?

Just reflashed. No soldering or anything like that. I saw the tools they used.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[S4Pazz]

Can we do such a thing feasibly and change it out ourselves when the car goes into the dealer? It seemed to be the best of both worlds. Can we get the extra stock box to flash and will this be recognized as changed out by the dealer? Still less than a warranty void. Oh, and I'll email you soon about the things in the box in your basement (not dead hookers). Nippon Highway has left Rhode Island for Houston and very shortly thereafter...."tha product" is in my garage .

[tdi-bart]

It's definitely fine stock but if you have a chance to drive one with the tune you will "feel" the difference, which IMO is considerable. More linear is the best way to describe it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

at first i thought they were talking throttle pedal or something, but i assume everyone chipped is referring to how you don't feel it pulling as hard as you can at redline stock, cause thats where all the power kicks in, instead now you get more power down low, so the effect of it pushing you back in your seat at redline is minimal right now... too bad

[Black BeauTTy]

at first i thought they were talking throttle pedal or something, but i assume everyone chipped is referring to how you don't feel it pulling as hard as you can at redline stock, cause thats where all the power kicks in, instead now you get more power down low, so the effect of it pushing you back in your seat at redline is minimal right now... too bad

One look at the torque curve and one wot run will convince you that your assessment is incorrect. Drive one and report back.

[J662]

One look at the torque curve and one wot run will convince you that your assessment is incorrect. Drive one and report back.

Hehe. Exactly.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Quisp]

My comment regarding sensitivity was about the way the gas pedal feel so touchy in sport mode. As the pedal is pressed there is a point at which the rpm jump. Takes some getting used to but it reminds me of that aftermarket attachment to throttle that make them more sensitive to simulate a tune. I forget what tehy are called but they attach to the throttle so it gives a sport mode like effect.

[Black BeauTTy]

I'm not a big fan of the binary nature of the throttle in sport mode. That's why i drive mostly in non sport mode. It is very sensitive to small inputs which is great when you're hammering but not so good in casual driving. Having said that, I'm sure I could adapt to it full time if I gave it a chance but then I'd deal with the stiffer suspension settings. Oh well, you can't have it all I suppose. At least I can control my exhaust independently of the sport button.

[Quisp]

I agree with you about the way sport mode is but when it is not in sport mode (stock car) it feel so much more sluggish.
I am considering the GIAC tune but I just got an email telling me that Stasis has got a program for the TT RS and are currently dyno and testing it. No performance numbers yet or a release date.
Curous to see what they come up with. I am guessing it wil be a bit more conservative because of the warranty. Sound like Stasis is the Dinan of Audi.

[J662]

I think there is no contest comparing stasis vs GIAC when you are talking about ecu tuning.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Quisp]

I realize that GIAC would probably be more power but I wonder how much more and Stasis will be more costly but I have had BMWs before and in the tune battles on thos e forums I went with Dinan(pretty much the BMW equivalent of Stasis it seems). I didnt get the max power that i could have if i went with a different tune and i paid more but I also did no thave to pay for 1 clutch, 6 injectors, 2 fuel pumps, coils, 2 turbos, wastegates and any of the labor to do all that. That is why I am leaning toward Stasis. It will come down to if there is any significant power gain with Stasis or not. 5 hp and 5 lb/ft would not do it for me. If there is not a significant gain for the money then I will have to reconsider.
From what I understand Audi is now checking the memory on the ecu to see if it has more used than it does when stock and using that to deterine if there is any tune. Is that BS or ?

[- Jeremy -]

From what I understand Audi is now checking the memory on the ecu to see if it has more used than it does when stock and using that to deterine if there is any tune. Is that BS or ?

The TT RS ECU is an old model that does not support the TD1 code. The newer ECU's like those in the S4 have this problem. Nothing to worry about with a TT RS, though. At least that's what the tuners are telling us, anyway

- Jeremy -

[JohnLZ7W]

The TT RS ECU is an old model that does not support the TD1 code. The newer ECU's like those in the S4 have this problem. Nothing to worry about with a TT RS, though. At least that's what the tuners are telling us, anyway

- Jeremy -

Unless of course the dealer manually flags it with TD1.

[- Jeremy -]

Unless of course the dealer manually flags it with TD1.

Anyone know if the dealers are also flagging for other mods? Sway bars, torque arm inserts, brakes, exhaust, etc?

- Jeremy -

[J662]

The TT RS ECU is an old model that does not support the TD1 code. The newer ECU's like those in the S4 have this problem. Nothing to worry about with a TT RS, though. At least that's what the tuners are telling us, anyway

- Jeremy -

I've been told otherwise.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Marty]

I've been told otherwise.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Can you share more details, please? I would assume that all expensive, high-performance variants (which are more likely to get enthusiast reflashes) would get extra attention to look for this.

[J662]

Can you share more details, please? I would assume that all expensive, high-performance variants (which are more likely to get enthusiast reflashes) would get extra attention to look for this.

From my understanding there seems to be quite a bit of "big brother" type code in the ecu and in addition to TD1 I'm really not sure how to explain it...maybe blackbeautty will chime in on this post to elaborate or give another perspective. As I mentioned before, I felt comfortable with how GIAC tuned my car. From my understanding and thoughts I think they kept the tune within certain parameters to where it shouldn't throw any red flags to Audi. Bottom line though: if you tune or mod your car there's a risk you take with voiding the warranty. I personally don't think the risk is high if you're not tuning the s*it out of your car but then again I could be wrong. Now I also don't think Audi would be quick to drop the hammer on one of their Tt-rs or r-8 customers. They know most of the people buying these cars are Audi enthusiasts and they are not going to want to loose these customers to a bad experience. It's definitely subjective and probably case by case/discretion. I do think they would look at a owner that has ecu tune, bigger turbo, inner cooler, diff haldex controller, coilovers, diff wheels, diff brakes, race exhaust, and sway bars differently then a guy who just did an ecu tune.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Black BeauTTy]

Your bottom line is correct...if you tune, you put yourself at increased risk. Having said that, I've always tuned and never had an issue. I also agree with you about the degree to which you modify the car. Go stage III and you pretty much gaurantee your fate because you are pushing the operting tolerances. Keep things reasonable and maintain a good relationship with your dealer and service department, and history tells me you'll probably be ok. The caveat is that history is not a good predictor of the future. The TD1 code is an example of that, it seemingly removes any dealer discretion from the equation. There does not appear to be an issue with the TTRS ecu in this regard but that does not mean there are no other flags in the code that can accomplish the same thing through another mechanism. GIAC did extensive testing and dug deep into the code to uncover, and disable, sub routines running in the background that could have served this purpose. I don't know, but I assume the other tuners have done similar. Have all the little secret gremlins been erraticated? I suppose I'll find out when the dealer hooks me up! From all the testing thus far, it appears I'll be ok. I am ok either way, to be honest. It is my car after all and if I want to modify it, I have to be willing to assume the risk. Just my $0.02.

[996cab]

Your bottom line is correct...if you tune, you put yourself at increased risk. Having said that, I've always tuned and never had an issue. I also agree with you about the degree to which you modify the car. Go stage III and you pretty much gaurantee your fate because you are pushing the operting tolerances. Keep things reasonable and maintain a good relationship with your dealer and service department, and history tells me you'll probably be ok. The caveat is that history is not a good predictor of the future. The TD1 code is an example of that, it seemingly removes any dealer discretion from the equation. There does not appear to be an issue with the TTRS ecu in this regard but that does not mean there are no other flags in the code that can accomplish the same thing through another mechanism. GIAC did extensive testing and dug deep into the code to uncover, and disable, sub routines running in the background that could have served this purpose. I don't know, but I assume the other tuners have done similar. Have all the little secret gremlins been erraticated? I suppose I'll find out when the dealer hooks me up! From all the testing thus far, it appears I'll be ok. I am ok either way, to be honest. It is my car after all and if I want to modify it, I have to be willing to assume the risk. Just my $0.02.

Over here we have REVO; APR; MRC and a few other maps for the TT-RS

I did not want to map the engine until I had obvious issues resolved - thus brakes; handling etc...However once the brakes were sorted and still with handling issues...on went the S1 map.

Impressions were as follows...;
1) You thought stock map picked up speed deceptively quick...Nope, S1 was wickedly quick and silky smooth...also gone was that 'kangaroo' effect when in Sports mode...the power delivery was strong up to redline. Amble along in 8th gear doing 40km/h and floor it and you will quickly be over speed limits within 5 seconds...that impressed me.

2) On streets / B-roads I could now happily play in 3rd gear mostly whereas prior I had to drop to 2nd to maintain torque then up shift to 3rd thus the car acts more like N/A due to torque being maintained for a second or so when you come off the gas pedal.

3) Again on track, it was great as torque being held longer in between gear changes means I can really keep the power on...also means I could really use 1 gear higher thus instead of dropping from 4th to 3rd on stock map I can easily keep 4th and still get enough torque to control the car in a corner...it is same in any gear really.

4) Fuel consumption improved oddly enough – not by much. I used to empty the tank on track days by 3/4 of the day. Now, I can do a whole day on a full tank...though I now have more power.

5) You will offcourse generate more heat thus an upgraded inter-cooler is worth a look at...just see it as a safeguard to NOT dropping power and NOT as something that gives you power.

6) I have never looked back since my map...am now at S2 map. Car is damn strong and has not missed a beat.

My $0.02 is...
...provided you do the usual things thus
– service the car more than the Audi scheduled service dates...we change oils a few times during the course of a year – though I track mine on regular basis.
– Do not abuse it unnecessarily – i.e. redline it in 1st gear all day long...!!!
– Do no let the oil run low/out – I check mine on regular basis and prior to each track visit.

...you will be fine.

[Thomas@GIAC]

If anyone has any questions regarding our software, feel free to shoot me a PM or post on here!

[Trbofly]

Don't have a question on the tune, but I do have a question for you.

Do your engineers know any way to move the single function sport button on an RS so that we can control the shocks, throttle and exauhst separately? I really want tobe able to control the magnetic shocks on separate from everything else.

I figure if GIAC doesn't know, no one will.

[Thomas@GIAC]

Don't have a question on the tune, but I do have a question for you.

Do your engineers know any way to move the single function sport button on an RS so that we can control the shocks, throttle and exauhst separately? I really want tobe able to control the magnetic shocks on separate from everything else.

I figure if GIAC doesn't know, no one will.

To be honest, we haven't actually looked into that. At this point, we are spending the bulk of our time tuning the software for the new Audi/BMW/VW so we haven't had time to explore options such as reprogramming the sport button. I wouldn't necessarily rule it out, but at this point I would honestly say that I don't forsee us venturing into such a project in the very near future.

[Quisp]

With the GIAC tunes how are they stepped up from stage 1 to stage 2? What i mean is what is added to the program from stock to stage 1 and then to stage 2.(boost increased, speed limiter removed,cooling, etc)
Not asking for specifics that are secret just trying to see what each stage changes in the cars system

[Thomas@GIAC]

With the GIAC tunes how are they stepped up from stage 1 to stage 2? What i mean is what is added to the program from stock to stage 1 and then to stage 2.(boost increased, speed limiter removed,cooling, etc)
Not asking for specifics that are secret just trying to see what each stage changes in the cars system

Typically, the components that are added between stages will reduce IAT's and allow us to run more boost and/or advanced timing. So, if you add an intercooler we will be able to add some more boost and advance timing.

There are more parameters that we adjust, but this is the basic idea. Stage 2 will usually involve an intake, downpipes and sometimes an intercooler (depending on the application). With our Race option for Stage 2, we can run a more aggressive file due to the addition of 100 octane or water-methanol injection.