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    Thread: CBFA Highflow Cat/Testpipe CEL Fix Thread

    1. Member kaban's Avatar
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      05-08-2012 10:28 AM #1
      I brought this up in another thread but figured it would be easier to find if there was a dedicated thread. Anyone that has a CBFA car and has a high flow cat or a tespipe will know that the CEL is tricky to eliminate.

      For those of us that do not have the luxury of no state emissions or lax state emissions the APR stg2 software will not work due to the readiness codes not being set. I know for a fact that in Northern VA you will not pass without readiness codes.

      I currently have a Eurojet v1 downpipe with a 200cell cat on my 08 CBFA GTi. I managed to eliminate the CEL by using the following:

      BFI Spacer on 2nd o2 sensor:


      RAI J-pipe spacer on the 3rd o2 sensor utilizing the smallest insert:


      I've put 500 miles on the car with the spacers and no CEL. Scanned for codes, nothing

      ViRtUaLheretic was able to do the same with the following:

      Wayne Angle Block:


      42DD spacer:


      Autozone spark plug non fouler (part number 42002):

      http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...=1#post3234486

      If anyone else has managed to trick the pesky CBFA motor, please feel free to post up.

      Hope this helps.
      Last edited by kaban; 05-11-2012 at 09:07 AM.

    2. Member Ricky Bobby's Avatar
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      05-08-2012 10:30 AM #2
      I LOVE THIS THREAD <333


      I need to get flashed to non-testpipe, fix my exhaust, and defeat the CEL so i can get inspected next year.
      Quote Originally Posted by Senor Pelligro
      It's a car for a fashion forward, style conscious guy that's always looking for the season's hottest accessory. A guy that watches Project Runway, reads TMZ, and drinks Cosmos.

      It's simply fabulous, sweetie.

    3. Member ViRtUaLheretic's Avatar
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      05-08-2012 10:49 AM #3
      Good idea to make a dedicated thread.

      Should also be noted that I have a catless Eurojet v1 downpipe.
      The CEL does come back sporatically but it goes away on its own after some time.
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    4. 05-08-2012 11:51 AM #4
      witch one is the best with a eurojet V2 no cat .

      currently I have no ecu modification since im still under warranty.

    5. Member yohoitztho's Avatar
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      05-08-2012 11:54 AM #5
      i was looking on stratmosphere's website.
      they have a spacer solution with cat insides. looks promising!

      Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk 2

    6. Member kaban's Avatar
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      05-08-2012 02:26 PM #6
      Quote Originally Posted by hotshot100 View Post
      witch one is the best with a eurojet V2 no cat .

      currently I have no ecu modification since im still under warranty.
      I think that both the options I listed should work for you. Because you do not have a cat, you may need to use a non-fouler. Try two spacers first though. I would not recommend the BFI on the 3rd bung though, too much exhaust stream. I'd only use it on the 2nd o2 bung.

      Does anyone know if the wayne angle blocks still in production? I had one years ago on myB5 A4 but I thought he stopped production.

    7. Member kaban's Avatar
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      05-08-2012 02:28 PM #7
      Quote Originally Posted by yohoitztho View Post
      i was looking on stratmosphere's website.
      they have a spacer solution with cat insides. looks promising!

      Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk 2
      This looks promising:
      http://www.stratmosphere.com/product/spacercat90/12


      Unfortunately they are also sold out.

    8. Member Poprocks01's Avatar
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      05-08-2012 02:53 PM #8
      Quote Originally Posted by kaban View Post
      This looks promising:
      http://www.stratmosphere.com/product/spacercat90/12


      Unfortunately they are also sold out.
      Great thread.

      I have the Billy Boat dp with 200 cell HFC. I tried both the straight and the angle Stratmosphere spacer. Installed on the final O2 sensor, neither of them eliminated the P0420 CEL for me.

      I'm going to try two spacers, one on each of the 2nd and 3rd sensors. I have the 42DD one, so that's going on the 2nd spacer and one of the Stratmospheres will go on the 3rd.

      Wish me luck!

    9. Member kaban's Avatar
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      05-08-2012 02:57 PM #9
      Good Luck. It seems that 2 spacers on the 2nd and 3rd o2 bung is the winning combination. I also tried several spacers on the 3rd bung only and failed to clear the CEL.

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      05-08-2012 03:14 PM #10
      Quote Originally Posted by kaban View Post
      Good Luck. It seems that 2 spacers on the 2nd and 3rd o2 bung is the winning combination. I also tried several spacers on the 3rd bung only and failed to clear the CEL.
      Yes, and the two spacer method was specifically recommended by my tuner. Now I just have to find a few moments to crawl under there and git r done.

    11. Member Ricky Bobby's Avatar
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      05-09-2012 08:51 AM #11
      You have a Eurojet V1 downpipe, thats what I currently have but I am getting rid of it when I go K04. Is yours the one like mine that already has the last o2 sensor spaced out a bit, then you added the RAI J-spacer?


      I'm curious to see if your combo or Virtual's will work on an APR downpipe to defeat the CEL, thats what I will be getting soon.
      Quote Originally Posted by Senor Pelligro
      It's a car for a fashion forward, style conscious guy that's always looking for the season's hottest accessory. A guy that watches Project Runway, reads TMZ, and drinks Cosmos.

      It's simply fabulous, sweetie.

    12. Member Ricky Bobby's Avatar
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      05-09-2012 08:56 AM #12
      Quote Originally Posted by Poprocks01 View Post
      Great thread.

      I have the Billy Boat dp with 200 cell HFC. I tried both the straight and the angle Stratmosphere spacer. Installed on the final O2 sensor, neither of them eliminated the P0420 CEL for me.

      I'm going to try two spacers, one on each of the 2nd and 3rd sensors. I have the 42DD one, so that's going on the 2nd spacer and one of the Stratmospheres will go on the 3rd.

      Wish me luck!

      I would suggest using the 42DD on the 2nd spacer, then drilling out a non-fouler (or 2) like Virtual did and using the angle stratmosphere on the last one. The point is to "step down" the emissions through the o2 sensors in order to not have them throw codes. The 2nd sensor is supposed to be "cleaner" than the one on the turbo, and the last o2 sensor is supposed to be even "cleaner" since it passed through another cat on the OEM downpipe.


      Do not just add 2 equivalent spacers, one on each port, and expect the CEL to stay off. Hope that helps
      Quote Originally Posted by Senor Pelligro
      It's a car for a fashion forward, style conscious guy that's always looking for the season's hottest accessory. A guy that watches Project Runway, reads TMZ, and drinks Cosmos.

      It's simply fabulous, sweetie.

    13. Member kaban's Avatar
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      05-09-2012 09:38 AM #13
      Quote Originally Posted by Ricky Bobby View Post
      You have a Eurojet V1 downpipe, thats what I currently have but I am getting rid of it when I go K04. Is yours the one like mine that already has the last o2 sensor spaced out a bit, then you added the RAI J-spacer?

      I'm curious to see if your combo or Virtual's will work on an APR downpipe to defeat the CEL, thats what I will be getting soon.
      Technically the downpipe that I have is not actually a "eurojet" product but its the exact same design, including the pretty welds I was surprised to see a unitronic badge on my downpipe but the guy/company that sold it to me locally said these will not be a unitronic product.



      My CEL came back on last night, need to scan and see if its the p420 code or something else. My guess is p420. I know Virtual has mentioned that his CEL comes back on from time to time, my guess is that its the same for me. I put about 600 miles on the car before the CEL came back on. I had the same issue with my ATW 1.8T that had sensitive o2 sensors.

    14. Member Ricky Bobby's Avatar
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      05-09-2012 10:05 AM #14
      I say put the middle jet on the RAI spacer and use a non-fouler on it to bring it further out. the smallest jet may not let enough emissions past and you may be throwing a intermittent code for the o2 not getting enough for a reading.


      let me know what code you are throwing intermittently!
      Quote Originally Posted by Senor Pelligro
      It's a car for a fashion forward, style conscious guy that's always looking for the season's hottest accessory. A guy that watches Project Runway, reads TMZ, and drinks Cosmos.

      It's simply fabulous, sweetie.

    15. Member kaban's Avatar
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      05-09-2012 10:12 AM #15
      Quote Originally Posted by Ricky Bobby View Post
      I say put the middle jet on the RAI spacer and use a non-fouler on it to bring it further out. the smallest jet may not let enough emissions past and you may be throwing a intermittent code for the o2 not getting enough for a reading.


      let me know what code you are throwing intermittently!
      I'll scan it tonight and will report back.

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      05-09-2012 11:58 AM #16
      I have the fix for the CEL.

      2012 4dr DSG CBFA running APR Stage 2 NON-Testpipe file and the AWE Downpipe.

      Over 2000 miles now, no CEL, no soft codes. Just strong linear power from down low all the way up top. Installed EXACTLY as per the instructions by yours truly.


    17. Member Ricky Bobby's Avatar
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      05-09-2012 02:43 PM #17
      Quote Originally Posted by NoRegrets78 View Post
      I have the fix for the CEL.

      2012 4dr DSG CBFA running APR Stage 2 NON-Testpipe file and the AWE Downpipe.

      Over 2000 miles now, no CEL, no soft codes. Just strong linear power from down low all the way up top. Installed EXACTLY as per the instructions by yours truly.


      I've been debating doing that myself. AWE downpipe with a Eurosport catback or something similar, do you run stock catback?

      Damn CBFA's are so touchy, I would hate having an intermittent CEL. And I have inspection in 13 then every 2 years after for emissions.
      Quote Originally Posted by Senor Pelligro
      It's a car for a fashion forward, style conscious guy that's always looking for the season's hottest accessory. A guy that watches Project Runway, reads TMZ, and drinks Cosmos.

      It's simply fabulous, sweetie.

    18. Member kaban's Avatar
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      05-09-2012 03:09 PM #18
      Quote Originally Posted by NoRegrets78 View Post
      I have the fix for the CEL.

      2012 4dr DSG CBFA running APR Stage 2 NON-Testpipe file and the AWE Downpipe.

      Over 2000 miles now, no CEL, no soft codes. Just strong linear power from down low all the way up top. Installed EXACTLY as per the instructions by yours truly.

      So what is special about the AWE downpipe to prevent the car from throwing a p420 code?

    19. Member Ricky Bobby's Avatar
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      05-09-2012 03:16 PM #19
      Quote Originally Posted by kaban View Post
      So what is special about the AWE downpipe to prevent the car from throwing a p420 code?
      Apparently according to AWE their HJS German made cats are more efficient even at the same 200 cell level, and they have perfected the use of spacers.

      If you look on their website and downpipe install intstructions, they include a large hole and small hole spacer with their downpipes. the large hole spacer goes on the 2nd o2, and the small hole spacer goes on the last o2 sensor.


      However, if you look "more closley-er" (obscure reference) you can see in the pic of their downpipe that the 3rd o2 actually has a built in spacer on the pipe itself, THEN you add the spacer they provide with the smallest jet.




      Which is why I am saying maybe the RAI spacer is good, but needs an extra spark plug fouler on there to "bring it out" enough from the exhaust stream.


      I wish AWE would sell us the spacers separately, I wonder if using them maybe in combo with a non-fouler on the 3rd one would do the trick.



      AWE, if you are listening, do your spacers get sold separately?
      Quote Originally Posted by Senor Pelligro
      It's a car for a fashion forward, style conscious guy that's always looking for the season's hottest accessory. A guy that watches Project Runway, reads TMZ, and drinks Cosmos.

      It's simply fabulous, sweetie.

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      05-09-2012 04:05 PM #20
      Quote Originally Posted by Ricky Bobby View Post
      I've been debating doing that myself. AWE downpipe with a Eurosport catback or something similar, do you run stock catback?

      Damn CBFA's are so touchy, I would hate having an intermittent CEL. And I have inspection in 13 then every 2 years after for emissions.
      Had the AWE Catback for about 1000 miles first, but it was a tad too loud for me. Running the stock cat back now.

      Quote Originally Posted by kaban View Post
      So what is special about the AWE downpipe to prevent the car from throwing a p420 code?
      HJS cat as stated above does some of the work, the rest is their use of spacers.

    21. Member Ricky Bobby's Avatar
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      05-10-2012 09:23 AM #21
      Quote Originally Posted by NoRegrets78 View Post
      Had the AWE Catback for about 1000 miles first, but it was a tad too loud for me. Running the stock cat back now.



      HJS cat as stated above does some of the work, the rest is their use of spacers.

      Hey no regrets, can you take a pic of your AWE downpipe under your car and do some measurements for me as far as the use of spacers? I'd like to try and combine the info we have with the 2 other people who have made spacers work, and the AWE spacer info as well.

      I know that their "long spacer with large hole" is installed before the cat, can you measure the length of that spacer? and the "short spacer with small hole" is installed after the cat, but is there an already spaced out section before the spacer is installed?

      the pic of the downpipe on their install instructions looks that way.



      To the 2 guys (virtual and kaban) who have defeated it, maybe you should use exhaust paste at the slip joints like AWE recommends with their exhaust in order to have a control factor and keep out the possibility of leaks??? perhaps that is the cause of the intermittent CEL?
      Quote Originally Posted by Senor Pelligro
      It's a car for a fashion forward, style conscious guy that's always looking for the season's hottest accessory. A guy that watches Project Runway, reads TMZ, and drinks Cosmos.

      It's simply fabulous, sweetie.

    22. Member kaban's Avatar
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      05-10-2012 09:43 AM #22
      Quote Originally Posted by Ricky Bobby View Post
      I say put the middle jet on the RAI spacer and use a non-fouler on it to bring it further out. the smallest jet may not let enough emissions past and you may be throwing a intermittent code for the o2 not getting enough for a reading.


      let me know what code you are throwing intermittently!
      Ended up being a p2096 code. Time to track down the exhaust leak.

    23. Member Ricky Bobby's Avatar
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      05-10-2012 11:08 AM #23
      Quote Originally Posted by kaban View Post
      Ended up being a p2096 code. Time to track down the exhaust leak.
      Which bank was it on, bank 2 or 3?

      That's good! That means you may have foiled the CEL for a catalyst efficiency code with your spacers, which I am highly happy to hear, like I said AWE recommends exhaust paste at all slip joints (and in your case V-bands), why not try throwing some paste on the bands and see if it helps? I'd pay attention to the joint before the cat and after the cat.

      My current exhaust does not throw CEL's but I do have black soot marks from small leaks, so i think exhaust paste is a must use on our sensitive CBFA.

      And also, did you use a new gasket with your install?
      Last edited by Ricky Bobby; 05-10-2012 at 11:14 AM.
      Quote Originally Posted by Senor Pelligro
      It's a car for a fashion forward, style conscious guy that's always looking for the season's hottest accessory. A guy that watches Project Runway, reads TMZ, and drinks Cosmos.

      It's simply fabulous, sweetie.

    24. Member kaban's Avatar
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      05-10-2012 11:21 AM #24
      Quote Originally Posted by Ricky Bobby View Post
      Which bank was it on, bank 2 or 3?

      That's good! That means you may have foiled the CEL with your spacers, which I am highly happy to hear, like I said AWE recommends exhaust paste at all slip joints (and in your case V-bands), why not try throwing some paste on the bands and see if it helps? I'd pay attention to the joint before the cat and after the cat.

      And also, did you use a new gasket with your install?
      I forgot to write down the bank, but I believe it was bank 2. I did use a new turbo gasket and recently double checked all the v-band clamps. May need to get it up in the air again and re-tighten all the vband clamps. I did have an issue with the 1st o2 bung (for fsi motors) on the downpipe a week or so ago. The bung plug backed out and I had a massive leak, I thought I fixed it but that also may be the culprit although I did clear the codes after I re-tightened the plug, applying some liquid steel for good measure. Taking the car to my exhaust guy this weekend with a 12 pack for his services.

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      05-10-2012 11:26 AM #25
      Quote Originally Posted by Ricky Bobby View Post
      Hey no regrets, can you take a pic of your AWE downpipe under your car and do some measurements for me as far as the use of spacers? I'd like to try and combine the info we have with the 2 other people who have made spacers work, and the AWE spacer info as well.

      I know that their "long spacer with large hole" is installed before the cat, can you measure the length of that spacer? and the "short spacer with small hole" is installed after the cat, but is there an already spaced out section before the spacer is installed?

      the pic of the downpipe on their install instructions looks that way.



      To the 2 guys (virtual and kaban) who have defeated it, maybe you should use exhaust paste at the slip joints like AWE recommends with their exhaust in order to have a control factor and keep out the possibility of leaks??? perhaps that is the cause of the intermittent CEL?
      Been raining for 2 weeks. I will have to jack up to take a look at the spring seats for a clunk I'm having so I'll do the measurements at the same time as soon as the weather clears.

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      05-10-2012 11:30 AM #26
      Here are pics of the spacers dead on installed to hold you over:




    27. Member Ricky Bobby's Avatar
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      05-10-2012 11:44 AM #27
      Quote Originally Posted by NoRegrets78 View Post
      Here are pics of the spacers dead on installed to hold you over:
      I think we may be on to something and thank you for the pics now and the measurements later! that spacer with the large hole is very large, which could be the reason it is longer, to give enough reading to the spacer but not have as much to flow over.

      the long spacer with small hole is to keep the emissions as clean as possible but if it is pulled too far away it wont have enough exhaust flow to get a reading and you will trip a CEL for that code.


      Kaban, any soot on your pipes indicating a leak? If it's bank 2 related to the CEL you can basically track it down to the area between the 2nd o2 (pre cat) on your car and the turbo flange on your downpipe. Check for leaks there, and even the connections for the BFI spacer you used there, remember those are all threaded connections which could use probably some anti seize or paste on the threads to keep it all sealed 100%.
      Quote Originally Posted by Senor Pelligro
      It's a car for a fashion forward, style conscious guy that's always looking for the season's hottest accessory. A guy that watches Project Runway, reads TMZ, and drinks Cosmos.

      It's simply fabulous, sweetie.

    28. Member kaban's Avatar
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      05-10-2012 02:00 PM #28
      Quote Originally Posted by Ricky Bobby View Post
      Kaban, any soot on your pipes indicating a leak? If it's bank 2 related to the CEL you can basically track it down to the area between the 2nd o2 (pre cat) on your car and the turbo flange on your downpipe. Check for leaks there, and even the connections for the BFI spacer you used there, remember those are all threaded connections which could use probably some anti seize or paste on the threads to keep it all sealed 100%.
      Soot was the 1st thing I check, nothing. There is definitely a leak, I can hear it once I get in the throttle and the cel came back on after 20 miles. Need to get it on the lift and give everything a once over with paste/sealer.

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      05-10-2012 05:58 PM #29
      Pre cat





      Post cat






      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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      05-10-2012 08:20 PM #30
      i could use some help too, im getting pissed with the damn apr downpipe. i installed the 42dd spacer and still popping codes. it requires another spacer elsewhere to trick it?

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      05-10-2012 09:13 PM #31
      Quote Originally Posted by 84cabbydroptop View Post
      i could use some help too, im getting pissed with the damn apr downpipe. i installed the 42dd spacer and still popping codes. it requires another spacer elsewhere to trick it?
      Need two spacers. One pre cat one post cat.


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    32. Member Ricky Bobby's Avatar
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      05-11-2012 08:19 AM #32
      so it's about 1.25 inch length spacer in the rear with a small jet and a 1.75 inch in the front with a larger jet?

      or is it 1 1/8 in the rear and 1.5 inch in the front length?


      I know it was a tight space under there with a measuring tape and i thank you for the measurements!


      I'm just trying to come to some collective solutions on how to fix this permanently, and I think we can come to the conclusion that the distance from the exhaust stream on the 2nd o2 sensor needs to be farther than the last o2, BUT the jet needs to be smaller on the 3rd o2 sensor.


      I think the combo Kaban has done is perfect, if he can solve his exhaust leak and the P0296 code (not sure what that relates to). However, if he is still having issues, we can troubleshoot further and I would venture to say that using a 420002 nonfouler on the 2nd o2 in conjunction with his BFI spacer, may do well to pull that sensor out far enough, YET leave a big enough "sniffer hole" to get a reading on that sensor.



      EDIT: If you look closely at the hole on the BFI spacer, it looks to be the diameter of the smallest insert on the RAI spacer. Perhaps that needs to be drilled out more for more flow? The pics NoRegrets78 posted show a hole diameter on the pre-cat o2 to be approx the size of the RAI middle jet, and the post o2 hole diameter to be approx the size of the smallest jet.



      Now when looking at Virtuals photos, I can see why he needed additional non-foulers, if you look at the hole on the Wayne angle block, it is approx the size of the biggest jet on the RAI spacer! This spacer alone flows too much exhaust stream, which is why he uses nonfoulers on top of the spacer.


      Again these are just my opinions and once I get my garage cleaned up enough (I just bought a house and I'm getting married) and some parts I ordered in my hands I can do some playing around myself, sorry to be using you guys as guinea pigs!
      Last edited by Ricky Bobby; 05-11-2012 at 08:34 AM.
      Quote Originally Posted by Senor Pelligro
      It's a car for a fashion forward, style conscious guy that's always looking for the season's hottest accessory. A guy that watches Project Runway, reads TMZ, and drinks Cosmos.

      It's simply fabulous, sweetie.

    33. Member kaban's Avatar
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      mk5 tsi hatchback
      05-11-2012 09:06 AM #33
      Managed to track down my leak last night. That damn pesky 1st o2 bung plug again. Had it tack welded in place, codes are gone and I'm CEL free. I want to put a few more hundred miles on the car before I say I defeated the p420, but so far so good.

      To add to my setup details, both of my spacers are set away from the exhaust stream so they are both facing toward the front of the car.

    34. Member
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      Jul 6th, 2006
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      2012 VW GTI 4dr Sunroof/Nav
      05-11-2012 09:06 AM #34
      1 1/2 Front, 1 1/8 rear from my perspective. Sorry they weren't more dead on, working on jack stands.

    35. Member Ricky Bobby's Avatar
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      Sep 29th, 2005
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      2003 X5 3.0i 5SPD, 07 SV1Ks
      05-11-2012 10:31 AM #35
      Quote Originally Posted by kaban View Post
      Managed to track down my leak last night. That damn pesky 1st o2 bung plug again. Had it tack welded in place, codes are gone and I'm CEL free. I want to put a few more hundred miles on the car before I say I defeated the p420, but so far so good.

      To add to my setup details, both of my spacers are set away from the exhaust stream so they are both facing toward the front of the car.

      Awesome to hear you fixed it! Keep us filled in and check your car for soft codes after 500-1000 miles or so! I will be doing a new exhaust setup soon and will be using some blue loctite on the threads of the o2 bung plug I believe, just to keep it from backing out.

      Going to order a BFI and RAI J-spacer as well, and make sure they face the front of the car!
      Quote Originally Posted by Senor Pelligro
      It's a car for a fashion forward, style conscious guy that's always looking for the season's hottest accessory. A guy that watches Project Runway, reads TMZ, and drinks Cosmos.

      It's simply fabulous, sweetie.

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