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    Thread: CBFA Highflow Cat/Testpipe CEL Fix Thread

    1. Member BODH1's Avatar
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      06-08-2012 03:39 PM #71
      Quote Originally Posted by rockerdan View Post
      Very interesting.....what stage 2 tune do you have, and do you have a intake?

      This just proves that each car is different, and im beginning to think there are many ways to skin a cat!

      It just seems odd to not need a spacer POST CAT, which is where you would think it would need it most to read cleaner at the back.

      Great to get as much info in here as we can for sure!

      thanks
      Post updated: Giac Stage 2 with a BSH true seal intake.

    2. Member rockerdan's Avatar
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      06-08-2012 04:07 PM #72
      Quote Originally Posted by BODH1 View Post
      Post updated: Giac Stage 2 with a BSH true seal intake.
      awesome!


      just wondering how you like this setup? Im leaning GIAC and EJ DP for myself and intake.

      Did you go stage 1 first then stage 2? If so, did GIAC charge for the upgrade? How much?


      Im thinking i might go stage 1 first since i have so many other things to spend money on right now,LOL....then going DP and stage 2 later in the fall maybe. Just would hate to have to pay alot for the upgrade. I know APR does not but there is usually a labor charge, but it should only be obd2 flash so pretty easy.

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      06-08-2012 06:51 PM #73
      I am currently running the APR Stage2 Testpipe file with their full exhaust (200 cell catted DP). Next Friday (15 June) I am heading over to BFI to get re-flashed and install a post-CAT o2 spacer, but I am concerned about this:

      Quote Originally Posted by 84cabbydroptop View Post
      i could use some help too, im getting pissed with the damn apr downpipe. i installed the 42dd spacer and still popping codes. it requires another spacer elsewhere to trick it?
      Quote Originally Posted by NoRegrets78 View Post
      Need two spacers. One pre cat one post cat.


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
      Why is it necessary to have a spacer pre-CAT? Also, I spoke to APR, and they told me to flash back to stage 1 to pass emissions. Is it possible to just reflash to APR stage2 NON-Testpipe, install spacers, and not throw the code? CCTA engine btw. (NC still requires emissions testing yearly)

      EDIT: Just got off the phone with APR again, representative I spoke with earlier today misspoke about flashing back to stage1. APR said flash to Stage 2 NON-TestPipe, and work with spacer(s) until no longer throwing codes.
      Last edited by HeadwrapKiller; 06-08-2012 at 06:59 PM. Reason: New Info
      4dr 2012 Golf R | UM2+ Fully Loaded | VMR 710's | BFI stage 2 mounts and inserts | APR Intercooler (Old build)2011 K04'd GTI
      Quote Originally Posted by nick0188 View Post
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    4. Member BODH1's Avatar
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      06-08-2012 06:59 PM #74
      Quote Originally Posted by rockerdan View Post
      awesome!


      just wondering how you like this setup? Im leaning GIAC and EJ DP for myself and intake.

      Did you go stage 1 first then stage 2? If so, did GIAC charge for the upgrade? How much?


      Im thinking i might go stage 1 first since i have so many other things to spend money on right now,LOL....then going DP and stage 2 later in the fall maybe. Just would hate to have to pay alot for the upgrade. I know APR does not but there is usually a labor charge, but it should only be obd2 flash so pretty easy.

      I like this set up a lot, and this downpipe is great.

      I got the downpipe with stock software for about a month, the gains were noticeable with the downpipe alone. Then I went GIAC stage 2 from stock. GIAC dealers are allowed to charge for labor for tuning from stage 1 to stage 2, some do it, some don't.

      The intake is ok, I have a stage 1+stage 2 BSH intake, which includes the turbo inlet pipe, heatshield, and the actual intake. The fitment on my particular intake was a little iffy, I had to do some modding to make it fit perfect, and now it's great. However, I am considering selling the set up (at a very good price, too, if you are interested,) and getting probably the modshack intake.

    5. Member rockerdan's Avatar
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      06-08-2012 07:28 PM #75
      Quote Originally Posted by HeadwrapKiller View Post
      I am currently running the APR Stage2 Testpipe file with their full exhaust (200 cell catted DP). Next Friday (15 June) I am heading over to BFI to get re-flashed and install a post-CAT o2 spacer, but I am concerned about this:

      Why is it necessary to have a spacer pre-CAT? Also, I spoke to APR, and they told me to flash back to stage 1 to pass emissions. Is it possible to just reflash to APR stage2 NON-Testpipe, install spacers, and not throw the code? CCTA engine btw. (NC still requires emissions testing yearly)

      EDIT: Just got off the phone with APR again, representative I spoke with earlier today misspoke about flashing back to stage1. APR said flash to Stage 2 NON-TestPipe, and work with spacer(s) until no longer throwing codes.
      Take a quick look at my post here, it has alot of info:
      http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...1#post77719864

      When you add a larger Diameter DownPipe you have changed how the car breathes. Your PRE-CAT Sensor will read higher with a larger DP. Also, on the CBFA motors they have two sensors as they run cleaner, they are detecting the PRE CAT o2 VS Post CAT o2 constantly, and it needs to satisfy certain criteria to not throw a CEL.

      This is why i don't like the test pipe file, many people have it not really knowing that their car is truly throwing a CEL and not going to pass an emissions inspection.

      As stated above, I would buy two RAI J spacers, they will allow you the best amount of fine tuning with their Jets. Some have been able to run CEL free with ONE SPACER on a CBFA but IMO its best to buy two and have them ready, since they are not really very pricey.

      Just because one spacer does not throw a CEL right away, does not mean a year later you dont start throwing CELs again, these motors are finiky and even stock setups can throw a CEL at times. So having two adjustable J spacers makes good sense.

      Last edited by rockerdan; 06-08-2012 at 07:31 PM.
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      06-08-2012 07:44 PM #76
      Quote Originally Posted by rockerdan View Post
      Take a quick look at my post here, it has alot of info:
      http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...1#post77719864

      When you add a larger Diameter DownPipe you have changed how the car breathes. Your PRE-CAT Sensor will read higher with a larger DP. Also, on the CBFA motors they have two sensors as they run cleaner, they are detecting the PRE CAT o2 VS Post CAT o2 constantly, and it needs to satisfy certain criteria to not throw a CEL.

      This is why i don't like the test pipe file, many people have it not really knowing that their car is truly throwing a CEL and not going to pass an emissions inspection.

      As stated above, I would buy two RAI J spacers, they will allow you the best amount of fine tuning with their Jets. Some have been able to run CEL free with ONE SPACER on a CBFA but IMO its best to buy two and have them ready, since they are not really very pricey.

      Just because one spacer does not throw a CEL right away, does not mean a year later you dont start throwing CELs again, these motors are finiky and even stock setups can throw a CEL at times. So having two adjustable J spacers makes good sense.

      I've been digging on this topic for a couple days already, and I have been keeping up with the thread you linked to as well. The guys at BFI think I should be OK with just a post-CAT spacer, but I will discuss it more with them.

      I guess I'm wondering now if it will be easier since I am CCTA not CBFA. Thanks for the info.
      4dr 2012 Golf R | UM2+ Fully Loaded | VMR 710's | BFI stage 2 mounts and inserts | APR Intercooler (Old build)2011 K04'd GTI
      Quote Originally Posted by nick0188 View Post
      Bounce off rev-limiter..slam second..bounce off rev-limiter..third..GONE. haha, K04 FTW

    7. Member rockerdan's Avatar
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      06-08-2012 08:17 PM #77
      Quote Originally Posted by HeadwrapKiller View Post
      I've been digging on this topic for a couple days already, and I have been keeping up with the thread you linked to as well. The guys at BFI think I should be OK with just a post-CAT spacer, but I will discuss it more with them.

      I guess I'm wondering now if it will be easier since I am CCTA not CBFA. Thanks for the info.
      OHHHH....My bad I did not see you were CCTA, since this thread is for CBFA i just assumed you were...lol

      You only need ONE o2 spacer, since you only have ONE sensor! (CCTA has only one)

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      06-08-2012 08:27 PM #78
      Quote Originally Posted by rockerdan View Post
      OHHHH....My bad I did not see you were CCTA, since this thread is for CBFA i just assumed you were...lol

      You only need ONE o2 spacer, since you only have ONE sensor! (CCTA has only one)

      DOH!!! Yeah, I guess I have been getting all worked up over nothing.

      Last edited by HeadwrapKiller; 06-08-2012 at 08:38 PM.
      4dr 2012 Golf R | UM2+ Fully Loaded | VMR 710's | BFI stage 2 mounts and inserts | APR Intercooler (Old build)2011 K04'd GTI
      Quote Originally Posted by nick0188 View Post
      Bounce off rev-limiter..slam second..bounce off rev-limiter..third..GONE. haha, K04 FTW

    9. Member rockerdan's Avatar
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      06-08-2012 08:36 PM #79
      Quote Originally Posted by HeadwrapKiller View Post
      DOH!!! Yeah, I guess I have been getting all worked up over nothing.

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      06-08-2012 08:37 PM #80
      Quote Originally Posted by rockerdan View Post
      Actually, there are two sensors, one on the DP right where it connects to the turbo and the other one post-CAT on the APR mid-pipe. Following everyone's logic for CBFA, I should still only need the one spacer post-CAT, because even the CBFA o2 sensor on the turbo housing remains untouched, right?
      4dr 2012 Golf R | UM2+ Fully Loaded | VMR 710's | BFI stage 2 mounts and inserts | APR Intercooler (Old build)2011 K04'd GTI
      Quote Originally Posted by nick0188 View Post
      Bounce off rev-limiter..slam second..bounce off rev-limiter..third..GONE. haha, K04 FTW

    11. Member rockerdan's Avatar
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      06-08-2012 08:45 PM #81
      Quote Originally Posted by HeadwrapKiller View Post
      Actually, there are two sensors, one on the DP right where it connects to the turbo and the other one post-CAT on the APR mid-pipe. Following everyone's logic for CBFA, I should still only need the one spacer post-CAT, because even the CBFA o2 sensor on the turbo housing remains untouched, right?
      yes CCTA do have a o2 sensor right at the top of stock DP, this you can leave without a spacer(2 total)


      the CBFA motor has the top o2 sensor on the other side right at turbo, it is not on the DP on CBFA. Then one before and one after cat(3 total). This is why CBFA is so touchy to get CEL free, its constantly taking all these readings!

      I have never heard anyone having to use a spacer on the top sensor at turbo, Im not sure if this sensor takes the same type of readings as the rearward ones.

      Last edited by rockerdan; 06-08-2012 at 08:48 PM.
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      06-08-2012 08:50 PM #82
      Quote Originally Posted by rockerdan View Post

      Sweet. Thanks man. Really clears all this up for me.
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      Quote Originally Posted by nick0188 View Post
      Bounce off rev-limiter..slam second..bounce off rev-limiter..third..GONE. haha, K04 FTW

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      06-10-2012 08:55 AM #83
      Quote Originally Posted by HeadwrapKiller View Post
      Actually, there are two sensors, one on the DP right where it connects to the turbo and the other one post-CAT on the APR mid-pipe. Following everyone's logic for CBFA, I should still only need the one spacer post-CAT, because even the CBFA o2 sensor on the turbo housing remains untouched, right?
      Installed EJ turbo back with 200 cell coverter on Friday. This was my first modification. Following the advice of Ian at P&G Performance, I used 42DD spacer on the O2 sensor after the cat. 21 miles and the CEL came on. I used the info on this thread and got the sparkplug non-fouler for the O2 sensor in front of the cat. A little time with the drill and the non-fouler fit perfectly. After a 50 mile drive, the CEL went out on the next start-up and has not returned after multiple start-ups and another 150 miles.
      Thanks to everyone involved with this thread!

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      06-10-2012 09:45 AM #84
      if anyone needs a 3'' SS mandrel bent pipe with real V-band clamps and comes with either a test pipe section or high flow cat, message me.
      Last edited by Krieger; 06-10-2012 at 09:48 AM.
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      06-10-2012 12:16 PM #85
      Quote Originally Posted by fms93gt View Post
      Installed EJ turbo back with 200 cell coverter on Friday. This was my first modification. Following the advice of Ian at P&G Performance, I used 42DD spacer on the O2 sensor after the cat. 21 miles and the CEL came on. I used the info on this thread and got the sparkplug non-fouler for the O2 sensor in front of the cat. A little time with the drill and the non-fouler fit perfectly. After a 50 mile drive, the CEL went out on the next start-up and has not returned after multiple start-ups and another 150 miles.
      Thanks to everyone involved with this thread!
      Are you talking about a CBFA or CCTA engine?
      4dr 2012 Golf R | UM2+ Fully Loaded | VMR 710's | BFI stage 2 mounts and inserts | APR Intercooler (Old build)2011 K04'd GTI
      Quote Originally Posted by nick0188 View Post
      Bounce off rev-limiter..slam second..bounce off rev-limiter..third..GONE. haha, K04 FTW

    16. Member rockerdan's Avatar
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      06-10-2012 01:40 PM #86
      Quote Originally Posted by fms93gt View Post
      Installed EJ turbo back with 200 cell coverter on Friday. This was my first modification. Following the advice of Ian at P&G Performance, I used 42DD spacer on the O2 sensor after the cat. 21 miles and the CEL came on. I used the info on this thread and got the sparkplug non-fouler for the O2 sensor in front of the cat. A little time with the drill and the non-fouler fit perfectly. After a 50 mile drive, the CEL went out on the next start-up and has not returned after multiple start-ups and another 150 miles.
      Thanks to everyone involved with this thread!
      I assume you are CBFA due to installing non fouler before cat. This just goes to show two spacers work best for CBFA, but it also shows that these setups can differ from one another, more spacing, less spacing, different types, all seem to be able to be made to work.

      again i feel the RAI gives us the most flexibilty simply due to their JETS, which i think is the ticket if starting from scratch.

      Guy who have made their cars CBFA cel free, please keep track of your mileage and report back every so often so we know they are staying CEL free over long periods.

      great thread here!!!

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    17. Member rockerdan's Avatar
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      06-10-2012 01:41 PM #87
      Quote Originally Posted by Krieger View Post
      if anyone needs a 3'' SS mandrel bent pipe with real V-band clamps and comes with either a test pipe section or high flow cat, message me.
      you talking about the actual DP or just piping, hard to tell from this post.

      if you have a DP would love to see pics and costs...
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      06-10-2012 04:01 PM #88
      its a full DP. lol

      message me for pics and info. selling fast and im about to go on vacation, so who knows how many more ill get to for the next few weeks.
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      06-10-2012 10:57 PM #89
      Quote Originally Posted by HeadwrapKiller View Post
      Are you talking about a CBFA or CCTA engine?
      CBFA

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      06-11-2012 10:34 AM #90
      Quote Originally Posted by Krieger View Post
      its a full DP. lol

      message me for pics and info. selling fast and im about to go on vacation, so who knows how many more ill get to for the next few weeks.
      I have one installed on my car and loving it, plus you cant beat the price

    21. Member rockerdan's Avatar
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      06-11-2012 01:13 PM #91
      Quote Originally Posted by Krieger View Post
      its a full DP. lol

      message me for pics and info. selling fast and im about to go on vacation, so who knows how many more ill get to for the next few weeks.
      Thanks for the PM and all the info, great deal!

      My problem is i wont be ready to go stage 2 for awhile still.....so Ill probably miss out. I will surely PM you when im ready to see if you have any at that time.

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      06-16-2012 03:51 PM #92
      42dd catless downpipe with 2 90* elbow, o2 spacers from ebay - first spacer drilled out a tad. Over two hundred miles so far without a cel, knock on wood. Factory tune, stock intake. The ebay spacers I got were $18 a piece.
      Last edited by mcgillis; 06-16-2012 at 04:18 PM.
      Quote Originally Posted by vr6vdub97 View Post
      Tis quite purtty, although I am sure Rocket has ruined it with McDonalds grease and Marlboro reds by now.

    23. Member rockerdan's Avatar
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      06-16-2012 08:08 PM #93
      Quote Originally Posted by mcgillis View Post
      42dd catless downpipe with 2 90* elbow, o2 spacers from ebay - first spacer drilled out a tad. Over two hundred miles so far without a cel, knock on wood. Factory tune, stock intake. The ebay spacers I got were $18 a piece.
      wow, interesting without a cat at all! nice work.

      The great thing about this(if you dont mind the smell) is you could go with a much cheaper DP(like ebay/godspeed ect) if its easy enough to be CEL free without CAT. Alot less cash!

      Please give link to ebay spacers, would love to see some pics of them, great price too.

      Last edited by rockerdan; 06-16-2012 at 08:11 PM.
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      06-16-2012 08:23 PM #94
      http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewi...d=290725542501

      The "inlet" hole is around the same size as the bfi (had a bfi spacer on my 1.8t and vr6).
      Quote Originally Posted by vr6vdub97 View Post
      Tis quite purtty, although I am sure Rocket has ruined it with McDonalds grease and Marlboro reds by now.

    25. Member rockerdan's Avatar
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      06-16-2012 08:33 PM #95
      Quote Originally Posted by mcgillis View Post
      http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewi...d=290725542501

      The "inlet" hole is around the same size as the bfi (had a bfi spacer on my 1.8t and vr6).
      Does that say steel? (not stainless) I wonder how fast that will rust out if its not SS ?

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      06-16-2012 11:36 PM #96
      Quote Originally Posted by rockerdan View Post
      Does that say steel? (not stainless) I wonder how fast that will rust out if its not SS ?

      I'll be going apr stage 2 before they get a chance to rust. I just wanted it to keep me cel-less for the time being. For those who are looking for a more permanent solution, without catless software, the 42dd spacers look top quality (nearly $40 a piece though).
      Quote Originally Posted by vr6vdub97 View Post
      Tis quite purtty, although I am sure Rocket has ruined it with McDonalds grease and Marlboro reds by now.

    27. Member SDbirdman's Avatar
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      07-10-2012 09:54 PM #97


      Installed two of these today. Time will tell. Wish me luck!

      Fingers crossed...

      P.s. this is a GREAT thread. Props to all u guys

      Unitronic Stage 2+ -- K04 turbo w/Unitronic DV Relocation -- 42DD 3" catless downpipe -- APR Intercooler -- Unitronic Intake -- BSH Throttle Pipe -- AWE Outlet Pipe -- Votex front lip -- HiDef side skirts -- painted rear valence -- mkvi wheel w/DSG paddles -- R line Pedals -- TRS HID headlights & projector fogs -- Euro side markers -- Interior & licence plate LEDs -- Skyline Euro Tail Lights -- Podi gauge and pod kit -- GFB DV+

    28. Member ViRtUaLheretic's Avatar
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      07-11-2012 12:52 PM #98
      I hate to burst your bubble, but if you have the CBFA motor and try to use a simple 90 degree spacer by itself you will most likely throw a CEL. You will probably have to add a straight spacer as I did or maybe try the RAI 90 degree spacer with adjustable inserts.
      Im not sure if the CCTA can get away with a simple 90 degree spacer though.
      :APR -stage 2 :BSH -Intake,Mounts,RSB,TB Pipe :Whiteline -A.L.K. :Porsche 17Z BBK
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    29. Member kaban's Avatar
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      07-11-2012 01:00 PM #99
      Quote Originally Posted by ViRtUaLheretic View Post
      I hate to burst your bubble, but if you have the CBFA motor and try to use a simple 90 degree spacer by itself you will most likely throw a CEL. You will probably have to add a straight spacer as I did or maybe try the RAI 90 degree spacer with adjustable inserts.
      Im not sure if the CCTA can get away with a simple 90 degree spacer though.
      That's exactly what I had to do. Hopefully the BFI spacers work out though as the spacers are the same. The BFI/RAI combo I have works for sure. 3+k miles with no P420.

    30. Member SDbirdman's Avatar
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      07-11-2012 01:57 PM #100
      thanks for the input guys. i did a 15 mile drive after installing the meagan racing right angle spacers and threw a p2271 code. its at bank 1 sensor 2. so i guess i have some work to do.

      damn cbfa...oh well, compared to the bpy fsi that i lemoned this cbfa has been a godsend

      Unitronic Stage 2+ -- K04 turbo w/Unitronic DV Relocation -- 42DD 3" catless downpipe -- APR Intercooler -- Unitronic Intake -- BSH Throttle Pipe -- AWE Outlet Pipe -- Votex front lip -- HiDef side skirts -- painted rear valence -- mkvi wheel w/DSG paddles -- R line Pedals -- TRS HID headlights & projector fogs -- Euro side markers -- Interior & licence plate LEDs -- Skyline Euro Tail Lights -- Podi gauge and pod kit -- GFB DV+

    31. Member
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      07-12-2012 09:27 AM #101
      Just a quick update:

      I have a CCTA not CBFA, and have to pass emissions in NC. I was able to pass by installing the BFI spacer and flashing to stock. After passing inspection, I re-flashed to APR Stage2 Non-Testpipe file and have put over 1k miles on the car with no codes. I have rechecked the car and it will still pass inspection.

      The reason I am stating this is because there is some confusion for CCTA emissions inspections. APR and the guys at BFI both told me I would need to flash back to stock to pass, then re-flash to stage2. Truth is (for me) APR Stage2 non-testpipe w/BFI spacer works just fine.

      Hope this helps anyone with CCTA in an emissions state.

      P.S. I have the APR Turbo-back exhaust, in other words 200 cell high flow cat.
      Last edited by HeadwrapKiller; 07-12-2012 at 09:30 AM.
      4dr 2012 Golf R | UM2+ Fully Loaded | VMR 710's | BFI stage 2 mounts and inserts | APR Intercooler (Old build)2011 K04'd GTI
      Quote Originally Posted by nick0188 View Post
      Bounce off rev-limiter..slam second..bounce off rev-limiter..third..GONE. haha, K04 FTW

    32. Member kaban's Avatar
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      07-12-2012 10:26 AM #102
      Quote Originally Posted by HeadwrapKiller View Post
      Truth is (for me) APR Stage2 non-testpipe w/BFI spacer works just fine.

      Hope this helps anyone with CCTA in an emissions state.
      This is correct, if you have the non-testpipe file you can pass emissions as long as you have a o2 spacer. APR non-testpipe file allows for readiness codes to be set. I believe CCTA's only require one spacer on the 2nd o2 bung and CBFA's require one on the 2nd and 3rd.

    33. Member Slayer's Avatar
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      07-12-2012 04:58 PM #103
      I'll be dealing with this in the next month.. better order some spacers
      Check out my Garage build thread 2008.5 GTI 2.0 TSI 6MT / APR K04 V3.1, APR IC, CTS 3" turbo back, Carbonio full intake, GFB DV+, BSH TB pipe, SB Stg2 Endurance clutch, BSH mounts, DG Shortshifter, FFM bracket bushings, Forge big knob, Koni coils, Coolingmist CMGS Meth injection, USRT spacer (DO3 & Snow 100 nozzles), 19" Miro stp3's, Centric rotors, Stoptech pads and TyrolSport bushings

    34. Member wh1te09gti's Avatar
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      08-01-2012 02:14 PM #104
      is cel/faulty code will do any harm to the engine performance if not taken care of right away?
      im in jersey with inspection sticker until 2017

    35. Member vath's Avatar
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      08-09-2012 01:16 AM #105
      OK, time for me to get into this thread....

      I just installed my used APR Downpipe this past weekend and kinda guessed at the o2 senor arrangement... For some reason I decided to take the plug that you see here in position 1 on the APR downpipe and put it where the stock CBFA 1st o2 sensor is and move the 1st o2 sensor onto the APR pipe.... after 50 miles i threw a p0420 CEL... on bank 1, is back 1 the first sensor? bank2 the 2nd and so on?



      current set up:


      did i guess incorrectly? or is this the normal CEL that come up after a DP install?

      001056 - Catalyst System; Bank 1
      P0420 - 000 - Efficiency Below Threshold - MIL ON
      Last edited by vath; 08-09-2012 at 01:23 AM.
      2009 GTI 2.0TSI CBFA 6spd, APR2, APR Downpipe, BSH RACE, NGK-PFR7Q plugs, VAGCOM,

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