CBFA Highflow Cat/Testpipe CEL Fix Thread

[BODH1]

Very interesting.....what stage 2 tune do you have, and do you have a intake?

This just proves that each car is different, and im beginning to think there are many ways to skin a cat!

It just seems odd to not need a spacer POST CAT, which is where you would think it would need it most to read cleaner at the back.

Great to get as much info in here as we can for sure!

thanks

Post updated: Giac Stage 2 with a BSH true seal intake.

[rockerdan]

Post updated: Giac Stage 2 with a BSH true seal intake.

awesome!


just wondering how you like this setup? Im leaning GIAC and EJ DP for myself and intake.

Did you go stage 1 first then stage 2? If so, did GIAC charge for the upgrade? How much?


Im thinking i might go stage 1 first since i have so many other things to spend money on right now,LOL....then going DP and stage 2 later in the fall maybe. Just would hate to have to pay alot for the upgrade. I know APR does not but there is usually a labor charge, but it should only be obd2 flash so pretty easy.

[HeadwrapKiller]

I am currently running the APR Stage2 Testpipe file with their full exhaust (200 cell catted DP). Next Friday (15 June) I am heading over to BFI to get re-flashed and install a post-CAT o2 spacer, but I am concerned about this:

i could use some help too, im getting pissed with the damn apr downpipe. i installed the 42dd spacer and still popping codes. it requires another spacer elsewhere to trick it?

Need two spacers. One pre cat one post cat.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Why is it necessary to have a spacer pre-CAT? Also, I spoke to APR, and they told me to flash back to stage 1 to pass emissions. Is it possible to just reflash to APR stage2 NON-Testpipe, install spacers, and not throw the code? CCTA engine btw. (NC still requires emissions testing yearly)

EDIT: Just got off the phone with APR again, representative I spoke with earlier today misspoke about flashing back to stage1. APR said flash to Stage 2 NON-TestPipe, and work with spacer(s) until no longer throwing codes.

[BODH1]

awesome!


just wondering how you like this setup? Im leaning GIAC and EJ DP for myself and intake.

Did you go stage 1 first then stage 2? If so, did GIAC charge for the upgrade? How much?


Im thinking i might go stage 1 first since i have so many other things to spend money on right now,LOL....then going DP and stage 2 later in the fall maybe. Just would hate to have to pay alot for the upgrade. I know APR does not but there is usually a labor charge, but it should only be obd2 flash so pretty easy.

I like this set up a lot, and this downpipe is great.

I got the downpipe with stock software for about a month, the gains were noticeable with the downpipe alone. Then I went GIAC stage 2 from stock. GIAC dealers are allowed to charge for labor for tuning from stage 1 to stage 2, some do it, some don't.

The intake is ok, I have a stage 1+stage 2 BSH intake, which includes the turbo inlet pipe, heatshield, and the actual intake. The fitment on my particular intake was a little iffy, I had to do some modding to make it fit perfect, and now it's great. However, I am considering selling the set up (at a very good price, too, if you are interested,) and getting probably the modshack intake.

[rockerdan]

I am currently running the APR Stage2 Testpipe file with their full exhaust (200 cell catted DP). Next Friday (15 June) I am heading over to BFI to get re-flashed and install a post-CAT o2 spacer, but I am concerned about this:

Why is it necessary to have a spacer pre-CAT? Also, I spoke to APR, and they told me to flash back to stage 1 to pass emissions. Is it possible to just reflash to APR stage2 NON-Testpipe, install spacers, and not throw the code? CCTA engine btw. (NC still requires emissions testing yearly)

EDIT: Just got off the phone with APR again, representative I spoke with earlier today misspoke about flashing back to stage1. APR said flash to Stage 2 NON-TestPipe, and work with spacer(s) until no longer throwing codes.

Take a quick look at my post here, it has alot of info:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...1#post77719864

When you add a larger Diameter DownPipe you have changed how the car breathes. Your PRE-CAT Sensor will read higher with a larger DP. Also, on the CBFA motors they have two sensors as they run cleaner, they are detecting the PRE CAT o2 VS Post CAT o2 constantly, and it needs to satisfy certain criteria to not throw a CEL.

This is why i don't like the test pipe file, many people have it not really knowing that their car is truly throwing a CEL and not going to pass an emissions inspection.

As stated above, I would buy two RAI J spacers, they will allow you the best amount of fine tuning with their Jets. Some have been able to run CEL free with ONE SPACER on a CBFA but IMO its best to buy two and have them ready, since they are not really very pricey.

Just because one spacer does not throw a CEL right away, does not mean a year later you dont start throwing CELs again, these motors are finiky and even stock setups can throw a CEL at times. So having two adjustable J spacers makes good sense.

[HeadwrapKiller]

Take a quick look at my post here, it has alot of info:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...1#post77719864

When you add a larger Diameter DownPipe you have changed how the car breathes. Your PRE-CAT Sensor will read higher with a larger DP. Also, on the CBFA motors they have two sensors as they run cleaner, they are detecting the PRE CAT o2 VS Post CAT o2 constantly, and it needs to satisfy certain criteria to not throw a CEL.

This is why i don't like the test pipe file, many people have it not really knowing that their car is truly throwing a CEL and not going to pass an emissions inspection.

As stated above, I would buy two RAI J spacers, they will allow you the best amount of fine tuning with their Jets. Some have been able to run CEL free with ONE SPACER on a CBFA but IMO its best to buy two and have them ready, since they are not really very pricey.

Just because one spacer does not throw a CEL right away, does not mean a year later you dont start throwing CELs again, these motors are finiky and even stock setups can throw a CEL at times. So having two adjustable J spacers makes good sense.

I've been digging on this topic for a couple days already, and I have been keeping up with the thread you linked to as well. The guys at BFI think I should be OK with just a post-CAT spacer, but I will discuss it more with them.

I guess I'm wondering now if it will be easier since I am CCTA not CBFA. Thanks for the info.

[rockerdan]

I've been digging on this topic for a couple days already, and I have been keeping up with the thread you linked to as well. The guys at BFI think I should be OK with just a post-CAT spacer, but I will discuss it more with them.

I guess I'm wondering now if it will be easier since I am CCTA not CBFA. Thanks for the info.

OHHHH....My bad I did not see you were CCTA, since this thread is for CBFA i just assumed you were...lol

You only need ONE o2 spacer, since you only have ONE sensor! (CCTA has only one)

[HeadwrapKiller]

OHHHH....My bad I did not see you were CCTA, since this thread is for CBFA i just assumed you were...lol

You only need ONE o2 spacer, since you only have ONE sensor! (CCTA has only one)

DOH!!! Yeah, I guess I have been getting all worked up over nothing.

[rockerdan]

DOH!!! Yeah, I guess I have been getting all worked up over nothing.

[HeadwrapKiller]

Actually, there are two sensors, one on the DP right where it connects to the turbo and the other one post-CAT on the APR mid-pipe. Following everyone's logic for CBFA, I should still only need the one spacer post-CAT, because even the CBFA o2 sensor on the turbo housing remains untouched, right?

[rockerdan]

Actually, there are two sensors, one on the DP right where it connects to the turbo and the other one post-CAT on the APR mid-pipe. Following everyone's logic for CBFA, I should still only need the one spacer post-CAT, because even the CBFA o2 sensor on the turbo housing remains untouched, right?

yes CCTA do have a o2 sensor right at the top of stock DP, this you can leave without a spacer(2 total)


the CBFA motor has the top o2 sensor on the other side right at turbo, it is not on the DP on CBFA. Then one before and one after cat(3 total). This is why CBFA is so touchy to get CEL free, its constantly taking all these readings!

I have never heard anyone having to use a spacer on the top sensor at turbo, Im not sure if this sensor takes the same type of readings as the rearward ones.

[HeadwrapKiller]

Sweet. Thanks man. Really clears all this up for me.

[fms93gt]

Actually, there are two sensors, one on the DP right where it connects to the turbo and the other one post-CAT on the APR mid-pipe. Following everyone's logic for CBFA, I should still only need the one spacer post-CAT, because even the CBFA o2 sensor on the turbo housing remains untouched, right?

Installed EJ turbo back with 200 cell coverter on Friday. This was my first modification. Following the advice of Ian at P&G Performance, I used 42DD spacer on the O2 sensor after the cat. 21 miles and the CEL came on. I used the info on this thread and got the sparkplug non-fouler for the O2 sensor in front of the cat. A little time with the drill and the non-fouler fit perfectly. After a 50 mile drive, the CEL went out on the next start-up and has not returned after multiple start-ups and another 150 miles.
Thanks to everyone involved with this thread!

[Krieger]

if anyone needs a 3'' SS mandrel bent pipe with real V-band clamps and comes with either a test pipe section or high flow cat, message me.

[HeadwrapKiller]

Installed EJ turbo back with 200 cell coverter on Friday. This was my first modification. Following the advice of Ian at P&G Performance, I used 42DD spacer on the O2 sensor after the cat. 21 miles and the CEL came on. I used the info on this thread and got the sparkplug non-fouler for the O2 sensor in front of the cat. A little time with the drill and the non-fouler fit perfectly. After a 50 mile drive, the CEL went out on the next start-up and has not returned after multiple start-ups and another 150 miles.
Thanks to everyone involved with this thread!

Are you talking about a CBFA or CCTA engine?

[rockerdan]

Installed EJ turbo back with 200 cell coverter on Friday. This was my first modification. Following the advice of Ian at P&G Performance, I used 42DD spacer on the O2 sensor after the cat. 21 miles and the CEL came on. I used the info on this thread and got the sparkplug non-fouler for the O2 sensor in front of the cat. A little time with the drill and the non-fouler fit perfectly. After a 50 mile drive, the CEL went out on the next start-up and has not returned after multiple start-ups and another 150 miles.
Thanks to everyone involved with this thread!

I assume you are CBFA due to installing non fouler before cat. This just goes to show two spacers work best for CBFA, but it also shows that these setups can differ from one another, more spacing, less spacing, different types, all seem to be able to be made to work.

again i feel the RAI gives us the most flexibilty simply due to their JETS, which i think is the ticket if starting from scratch.

Guy who have made their cars CBFA cel free, please keep track of your mileage and report back every so often so we know they are staying CEL free over long periods.

great thread here!!!

[rockerdan]

if anyone needs a 3'' SS mandrel bent pipe with real V-band clamps and comes with either a test pipe section or high flow cat, message me.

you talking about the actual DP or just piping, hard to tell from this post.

if you have a DP would love to see pics and costs...

[Krieger]

its a full DP. lol

message me for pics and info. selling fast and im about to go on vacation, so who knows how many more ill get to for the next few weeks.

[fms93gt]

Are you talking about a CBFA or CCTA engine?

CBFA

[kaban]

its a full DP. lol

message me for pics and info. selling fast and im about to go on vacation, so who knows how many more ill get to for the next few weeks.

I have one installed on my car and loving it, plus you cant beat the price

[rockerdan]

its a full DP. lol

message me for pics and info. selling fast and im about to go on vacation, so who knows how many more ill get to for the next few weeks.

Thanks for the PM and all the info, great deal!

My problem is i wont be ready to go stage 2 for awhile still.....so Ill probably miss out. I will surely PM you when im ready to see if you have any at that time.

[mcgillis]

42dd catless downpipe with 2 90* elbow, o2 spacers from ebay - first spacer drilled out a tad. Over two hundred miles so far without a cel, knock on wood. Factory tune, stock intake. The ebay spacers I got were $18 a piece.

[rockerdan]

42dd catless downpipe with 2 90* elbow, o2 spacers from ebay - first spacer drilled out a tad. Over two hundred miles so far without a cel, knock on wood. Factory tune, stock intake. The ebay spacers I got were $18 a piece.

wow, interesting without a cat at all! nice work.

The great thing about this(if you dont mind the smell) is you could go with a much cheaper DP(like ebay/godspeed ect) if its easy enough to be CEL free without CAT. Alot less cash!

Please give link to ebay spacers, would love to see some pics of them, great price too.

[mcgillis]

http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewi...d=290725542501

The "inlet" hole is around the same size as the bfi (had a bfi spacer on my 1.8t and vr6).

[rockerdan]

http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewi...d=290725542501

The "inlet" hole is around the same size as the bfi (had a bfi spacer on my 1.8t and vr6).

Does that say steel? (not stainless) I wonder how fast that will rust out if its not SS ?

[mcgillis]

Does that say steel? (not stainless) I wonder how fast that will rust out if its not SS ?

I'll be going apr stage 2 before they get a chance to rust. I just wanted it to keep me cel-less for the time being. For those who are looking for a more permanent solution, without catless software, the 42dd spacers look top quality (nearly $40 a piece though).

[SDbirdman]

Installed two of these today. Time will tell. Wish me luck!

Fingers crossed...

P.s. this is a GREAT thread. Props to all u guys

[ViRtUaLheretic]

I hate to burst your bubble, but if you have the CBFA motor and try to use a simple 90 degree spacer by itself you will most likely throw a CEL. You will probably have to add a straight spacer as I did or maybe try the RAI 90 degree spacer with adjustable inserts.
Im not sure if the CCTA can get away with a simple 90 degree spacer though.

[kaban]

I hate to burst your bubble, but if you have the CBFA motor and try to use a simple 90 degree spacer by itself you will most likely throw a CEL. You will probably have to add a straight spacer as I did or maybe try the RAI 90 degree spacer with adjustable inserts.
Im not sure if the CCTA can get away with a simple 90 degree spacer though.

That's exactly what I had to do. Hopefully the BFI spacers work out though as the spacers are the same. The BFI/RAI combo I have works for sure. 3+k miles with no P420.

[SDbirdman]

thanks for the input guys. i did a 15 mile drive after installing the meagan racing right angle spacers and threw a p2271 code. its at bank 1 sensor 2. so i guess i have some work to do.

damn cbfa...oh well, compared to the bpy fsi that i lemoned this cbfa has been a godsend

[HeadwrapKiller]

Just a quick update:

I have a CCTA not CBFA, and have to pass emissions in NC. I was able to pass by installing the BFI spacer and flashing to stock. After passing inspection, I re-flashed to APR Stage2 Non-Testpipe file and have put over 1k miles on the car with no codes. I have rechecked the car and it will still pass inspection.

The reason I am stating this is because there is some confusion for CCTA emissions inspections. APR and the guys at BFI both told me I would need to flash back to stock to pass, then re-flash to stage2. Truth is (for me) APR Stage2 non-testpipe w/BFI spacer works just fine.

Hope this helps anyone with CCTA in an emissions state.

P.S. I have the APR Turbo-back exhaust, in other words 200 cell high flow cat.

[kaban]

Truth is (for me) APR Stage2 non-testpipe w/BFI spacer works just fine.

Hope this helps anyone with CCTA in an emissions state.

This is correct, if you have the non-testpipe file you can pass emissions as long as you have a o2 spacer. APR non-testpipe file allows for readiness codes to be set. I believe CCTA's only require one spacer on the 2nd o2 bung and CBFA's require one on the 2nd and 3rd.

[Slayer]

I'll be dealing with this in the next month.. better order some spacers

[wh1te09gti]

is cel/faulty code will do any harm to the engine performance if not taken care of right away?
im in jersey with inspection sticker until 2017

[vath]

OK, time for me to get into this thread....

I just installed my used APR Downpipe this past weekend and kinda guessed at the o2 senor arrangement... For some reason I decided to take the plug that you see here in position 1 on the APR downpipe and put it where the stock CBFA 1st o2 sensor is and move the 1st o2 sensor onto the APR pipe.... after 50 miles i threw a p0420 CEL... on bank 1, is back 1 the first sensor? bank2 the 2nd and so on?



current set up:


did i guess incorrectly? or is this the normal CEL that come up after a DP install?

001056 - Catalyst System; Bank 1
P0420 - 000 - Efficiency Below Threshold - MIL ON