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CBFA Highflow Cat/Testpipe CEL Fix Thread

99K views 201 replies 47 participants last post by  BODH1 
#1 · (Edited)
I brought this up in another thread but figured it would be easier to find if there was a dedicated thread. Anyone that has a CBFA car and has a high flow cat or a tespipe will know that the CEL is tricky to eliminate.

For those of us that do not have the luxury of no state emissions or lax state emissions the APR stg2 software will not work due to the readiness codes not being set. I know for a fact that in Northern VA you will not pass without readiness codes.

I currently have a Eurojet v1 downpipe with a 200cell cat on my 08 CBFA GTi. I managed to eliminate the CEL by using the following:

BFI Spacer on 2nd o2 sensor:


RAI J-pipe spacer on the 3rd o2 sensor utilizing the smallest insert:


I've put 500 miles on the car with the spacers and no CEL. Scanned for codes, nothing :)

ViRtUaLheretic was able to do the same with the following:

Wayne Angle Block:


42DD spacer:


Autozone spark plug non fouler (part number 42002):

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...*-Non-fouler?p=3234486&viewfull=1#post3234486

If anyone else has managed to trick the pesky CBFA motor, please feel free to post up.

Hope this helps.
 
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#3 ·
Good idea to make a dedicated thread. :thumbup:

Should also be noted that I have a catless Eurojet v1 downpipe.
The CEL does come back sporatically but it goes away on its own after some time.
 
#6 ·
I think that both the options I listed should work for you. Because you do not have a cat, you may need to use a non-fouler. Try two spacers first though. I would not recommend the BFI on the 3rd bung though, too much exhaust stream. I'd only use it on the 2nd o2 bung.

Does anyone know if the wayne angle blocks still in production? I had one years ago on myB5 A4 but I thought he stopped production.
 
#11 ·
You have a Eurojet V1 downpipe, thats what I currently have but I am getting rid of it when I go K04. Is yours the one like mine that already has the last o2 sensor spaced out a bit, then you added the RAI J-spacer?


I'm curious to see if your combo or Virtual's will work on an APR downpipe to defeat the CEL, thats what I will be getting soon.
 
#13 ·
You have a Eurojet V1 downpipe, thats what I currently have but I am getting rid of it when I go K04. Is yours the one like mine that already has the last o2 sensor spaced out a bit, then you added the RAI J-spacer?

I'm curious to see if your combo or Virtual's will work on an APR downpipe to defeat the CEL, thats what I will be getting soon.
Technically the downpipe that I have is not actually a "eurojet" product but its the exact same design, including the pretty welds :rolleyes: I was surprised to see a unitronic badge on my downpipe but the guy/company that sold it to me locally said these will not be a unitronic product.



My CEL came back on last night, need to scan and see if its the p420 code or something else. My guess is p420. I know Virtual has mentioned that his CEL comes back on from time to time, my guess is that its the same for me. I put about 600 miles on the car before the CEL came back on. I had the same issue with my ATW 1.8T that had sensitive o2 sensors.
 
#14 ·
I say put the middle jet on the RAI spacer and use a non-fouler on it to bring it further out. the smallest jet may not let enough emissions past and you may be throwing a intermittent code for the o2 not getting enough for a reading.


let me know what code you are throwing intermittently!
 
#17 ·
I've been debating doing that myself. AWE downpipe with a Eurosport catback or something similar, do you run stock catback?

Damn CBFA's are so touchy, I would hate having an intermittent CEL. And I have inspection in 13 then every 2 years after for emissions.
 
#27 ·
Here are pics of the spacers dead on installed to hold you over:
I think we may be on to something and thank you for the pics now and the measurements later! that spacer with the large hole is very large, which could be the reason it is longer, to give enough reading to the spacer but not have as much to flow over.

the long spacer with small hole is to keep the emissions as clean as possible but if it is pulled too far away it wont have enough exhaust flow to get a reading and you will trip a CEL for that code.


Kaban, any soot on your pipes indicating a leak? If it's bank 2 related to the CEL you can basically track it down to the area between the 2nd o2 (pre cat) on your car and the turbo flange on your downpipe. Check for leaks there, and even the connections for the BFI spacer you used there, remember those are all threaded connections which could use probably some anti seize or paste on the threads to keep it all sealed 100%.
 
#32 · (Edited)
so it's about 1.25 inch length spacer in the rear with a small jet and a 1.75 inch in the front with a larger jet?

or is it 1 1/8 in the rear and 1.5 inch in the front length?


I know it was a tight space under there with a measuring tape and i thank you for the measurements!


I'm just trying to come to some collective solutions on how to fix this permanently, and I think we can come to the conclusion that the distance from the exhaust stream on the 2nd o2 sensor needs to be farther than the last o2, BUT the jet needs to be smaller on the 3rd o2 sensor.


I think the combo Kaban has done is perfect, if he can solve his exhaust leak and the P0296 code (not sure what that relates to). However, if he is still having issues, we can troubleshoot further and I would venture to say that using a 420002 nonfouler on the 2nd o2 in conjunction with his BFI spacer, may do well to pull that sensor out far enough, YET leave a big enough "sniffer hole" to get a reading on that sensor.



EDIT: If you look closely at the hole on the BFI spacer, it looks to be the diameter of the smallest insert on the RAI spacer. Perhaps that needs to be drilled out more for more flow? The pics NoRegrets78 posted show a hole diameter on the pre-cat o2 to be approx the size of the RAI middle jet, and the post o2 hole diameter to be approx the size of the smallest jet.



Now when looking at Virtuals photos, I can see why he needed additional non-foulers, if you look at the hole on the Wayne angle block, it is approx the size of the biggest jet on the RAI spacer! This spacer alone flows too much exhaust stream, which is why he uses nonfoulers on top of the spacer.


Again these are just my opinions and once I get my garage cleaned up enough (I just bought a house and I'm getting married) and some parts I ordered in my hands I can do some playing around myself, sorry to be using you guys as guinea pigs!
 
#33 ·
Managed to track down my leak last night. That damn pesky 1st o2 bung plug again. Had it tack welded in place, codes are gone and I'm CEL free. I want to put a few more hundred miles on the car before I say I defeated the p420, but so far so good.

To add to my setup details, both of my spacers are set away from the exhaust stream so they are both facing toward the front of the car.
 
#35 ·
Awesome to hear you fixed it! Keep us filled in and check your car for soft codes after 500-1000 miles or so! I will be doing a new exhaust setup soon and will be using some blue loctite on the threads of the o2 bung plug I believe, just to keep it from backing out.

Going to order a BFI and RAI J-spacer as well, and make sure they face the front of the car!
 
#37 · (Edited)
Duly noted!


EDIT: Thanks to MR. O.G. of the TSI forums mr. Ryan Mills, I have found his measurements for the AWE spacers and the diameter of their "flow holes".

LINK TO O2 SPACERS


This is the cliff's notes from seeing his pics:

Pre-cat sensor: 1/2" diameter flow hole, length of total spacer is 2" including threads, 1.5" spacer body not including threads

Post-cat sensor: 1/4" diameter flow hole, length of total spacer is 1 5/8" including threads, 1.18" spacer body not including threads



Now, our next experiment if Kaban wants to measure his UNUSED spacer jet on the RAI, is what is the diameter of the middle jet? If it's 1/2", and the smaller one is 1/4", we may be on to something yet again. I will email RAI and see if they can measure their long spacer as well for length and the diameters of the flow holes on the inserts.
 
#40 ·
Excellent!

I'm still throwing a p0926 (fuel trim system too lean bank1) code and now a p0137 (oxygen sensor circuit low voltage bank1 sensor2) code.

No P0420 though so that's one headache fixed. Dropping the car off at an exhaust shop so they can recheck all my vband clamps, turbo bolts and o2 sensors.
 
#47 ·
plac from vortex defeated his CEL yesterday, here is link from golfmk6:

http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10334&page=63


Setup: Stock catback, Ultimate Racing downpipe with Ceramic cat, unresonated
No spacers on rear o2, 42DD right angle spacer on middle (pre-cat) o2 sensor, threaded halfway out.



hope this is helpful!
 
#48 ·
#58 ·
Great Info here for CBFA!!

Just want to say thanks to Kaban and Ricky Bobby and others in here for such great info! Finally a thread that doesn't get offtrack with smilies and 'I slept with your mom' posts, probably cause its not in the general forums! awesome! :D


Ok guys Ive been doing my homework for months before i go stage 2, and now that i found this thread I really feel more confident about going stage 2!

I am in NY with a CBFA(OBD2 emission tests here every year!):thumbdown:

Im going GIAC stage 2 and want to take advantage of their sale(which i think should be coming around Waterfest this July). I wont be getting my downpipe for about 6 weeks after the tune. Has anyone just run the stage 2 tune(moderately) with stock DP for a few weeks safely? I spose i could always leave it stock mode while waiting for DP too.

Now im torn between UR or EJ DPs. Both offered me great forum pricing(very close to eachother in cost) However the EJ will give me both test pipe AND 200CELL CAT pipe. So this makes me want to lean EJ, then i can simply use KABANs setup for spacers.

anyway, I will post more here when i get things going, this thread has more amazing info in 2 pages then any thread on Vortex! Great work on the AWE spacer sizes, its odd how the rear spacers on AWEs seem shorter, but i do believe their CAT is 400cell, so this might be the reason.

Im assuming with a hi flow 200cell CAT we need MORE spacing AFTER CAT, and LESS spacing BEFORE CAT.

Great work here people!
:wave::peace::D
 
#59 ·
Just want to say thanks to Kaban and Ricky Bobby and others in here for such great info! Finally a thread that doesn't get offtrack with smilies and 'I slept with your mom' posts, probably cause its not in the general forums! awesome! :D


Ok guys Ive been doing my homework for months before i go stage 2, and now that i found this thread I really feel more confident about going stage 2!

I am in NY with a CBFA(OBD2 emission tests here every year!):thumbdown:

Im going GIAC stage 2 and want to take advantage of their sale(which i think should be coming around Waterfest this July). I wont be getting my downpipe for about 6 weeks after the tune. Has anyone just run the stage 2 tune(moderately) with stock DP for a few weeks safely? I spose i could always leave it stock mode while waiting for DP too.

Now im torn between UR or EJ DPs. Both offered me great forum pricing(very close to eachother in cost) However the EJ will give me both test pipe AND 200CELL CAT pipe. So this makes me want to lean EJ, then i can simply use KABANs setup for spacers.

anyway, I will post more here when i get things going, this thread has more amazing info in 2 pages then any thread on Vortex! Great work on the AWE spacer sizes, its odd how the rear spacers on AWEs seem shorter, but i do believe their CAT is 400cell, so this might be the reason.

Im assuming with a hi flow 200cell CAT we need MORE spacing AFTER CAT, and LESS spacing BEFORE CAT.

Great work here people!
:wave::peace::D
Just to let u know im am at giac stage 2 with a EJ tbe with there high flow cat.. I have a cbfa car aswell. To answer ur first question u cant go stage 2 without a downpipe.. Second i have a pretty good setup with my spacers and even though i have no check engine light it still throws a 0420 code. Hopefully when it comes to the time i can pass my inspection here in mass..
 
#62 ·
the problem with the CBFA is its very finicky! If i were you I would buy a RAI J spacer, install it after the cat, then take your 42dd and install it before the cat... I bet that would be perfect.

the reason I will go with RAI spacer is the fact they come with JETS, to fine tune. Other spacers and non foulers have to be drilled out, but then your stuck with that size.

RAI also has a straight spacer with 2 Jets, but the more i talk to people the more i hear they are using the J style. Seems RAI has a very hard time keeping them instock!

According to this thread and others, guys who DO not have a CEL DO not have a code either. Im thinking maybe you got a code and WILL eventually get the CEL sooner or later, or at least Intermittently.

right now im just waiting for the GIAC Sale!! After I saw some of the great stage 2 dyno pulls from GIAC it made me a believer. The more dynos i see from all the tuners, it seems APR is usually low, but as they say smooth and safe.

:D
 
#63 ·
Thanks for the info... Maybe I'll try that setup.. Actually i just installed a p3 cars boost gauge that tells me what codes I have and then clears it for me.. As long as i can pass inspection then im good for now... The car runs great perfect even with the code.. I have till september anyway..

Just some info for u aswell.. Giac stage 2 is awesome.. I heard mixed reviews about apr.. I heard its a bit conservative. As for my car, its pretty damn fast. The gauge i bought allows me to keep track of my 0-60 times and so far my best is 5.2 sec with stock dunlops.. Im sure if i get some stickie tires i will be sub 5 easily..
 
#64 ·
Man that is awesome, cant wait to get mine stage 2 GIAC soon! I have considered APR, REVO and UNI but i think i will be happiest with GIAC after much research. really great to hear yours works well. That is an awesome 0-60 time!

I lowered mine last month and got Conti DW tires so i should have some decent grip! Only thing I worry about is how long will my clutch last after stage 2! LOL

Ill be sure to post up here when i get my DP and spacers setup, but that wont be for a few more months.

:peace:
 
#65 ·
As tuners i know that sometimes we have tendencies to spend money too fast with our cars.. Lol! Im sure soon enough you will be there..

As far as your clutch.... I have a dsg so i dont have experience first hand with that but from what i hear u should be good for a while.. It all depends on ur driving style..

Good stuff though! Just be sure to have a professional install ur software.. Things could go bad quick if not done properly.
 
#66 ·
Yeah i hear that....if you look at my build thread i spent way too much the first 2 weeks i owned car! LOL... But now its time for more power.

I spent alot of time looking around, and Emailing. Its funny not one TUNER replied to my emails, not APR, not REVO, and Unitronic finally did after a few weeks. My local GIAC dealer wanted $150 labor install geesh!

I emailed AWE and they replied to me within an hour! I decided it would be best to ship my ECU to AWE. They do not charge any labor to flash, no tax either. So ill remove ECU myself and ship to AWE which is alot less then $150 plus tax paying locally to a guy who has not done any MK6s yet. AWE has done lots and they are very reputable! I got my springs from AWE last month and had really great communication with them, and always read about how many guys online have had AWE do their cars, wish i lived closer to them.

:D
 
#67 ·
If you are going with the RAI J-spacers, I would use middle jet on the front sensor, and smallest jet on the rear sensor. You may also need a nonfouler on the front sensor, in essence it is farther away but the "flow hole" is larger so it can't be the same distance away as the rear sensor. It's very touchy



Or just go with the tried and true results in this thread: kaban has BFI spacer on front, RAI J spacer on rear with smallest insert on a Eurojet 200 cell metal cat downpipe.

plac has the UR with rear bung already modded by UR, and 42DD spacer on front threaded halfway out and facing rear of car.
 
#68 ·
Great info buddy!! I think I will try the J spacers first from RAI. It will be interesting to see how finiky things are. I have talked to many who have slightly different setup and are all working, so even though things in general should be similar, i think there is some leeway in how finiky this CBFA is!

Ill be sure to post up my setup when time comes! gonna be a few mts til i get all done!

Dan
 
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