My State May Have just Passed A Very Restrictive Addition

[Air-over-water]

99.943% of those who voted for this bill are religious bigots. The remaining 0.057% just think it's icky.

I would like to hear any logical reasoning behind supporting this bill not covered by some magical tarp of religion.

[Ernie McCracken]

I would like to hear any logical reasoning behind supporting this bill not covered by some magical tarp of religion.

Meh. People vote for their teams. It's not difficult to see why the majority of people couldn't stomach voting for the same "side" as trayvon crusaders, al sharpton, political correctness, feminist bull****, entitled government employees, or whoever they are grinding axes with.

Gay marriage is inevitable, though. Once the baby boomers start dying off, people will wonder why it took so long.

[Juiced6]

So I'm not against gay marriage at all, but I never really get why straight people get their panties SO twisted over the issue.

gay marriage and gay rights are the new social hot button.

Slaves were freed during/after the civil war. It took until the 1960s before they were finally "equal"

This is no different.

It will take a generation of people to just finally die off for gays to get their rights

[Notch__Johnson]

Thats why I just vote NO on anything pro-elderly.

[Fritz27]

They also want to ban blowjobs. No really. Look want the anti-sodomy laws they want to bring back banned. They didn't just ban gay sex or even just anal sex, they banned everything that wasn't vaginal.
If anything, care because they're coming for BJs next. Then sex than doesn't result in kids.

Anti-sodomoy laws are already unconstitutional so they would fail.

Regardless, if we outlaw blowjobs then only outlaws will get blowjobs and since doing illegal stuff is cool and being with bad boys is what women like, it might turn out that women will enjoy giving blowjobs because of its rebellious nature.

[Ernie McCracken]

Thats why I just vote NO on anything pro-elderly.

So you vote anti-old and they vote anti-liberal and here we are. The politicians win by pitting all the sheep against each other.

[Karmanniac]

I would like to hear any logical reasoning behind supporting this bill not covered by some magical tarp of religion.

Apparently, the anti-NC1 people spent millions of dollars running ads 24-7 about how evil it was that people who would have voted their conscience ended up voting against the people who were calling them dumb crackers.

[Run L1ke H3LL]

http://www.change.org/petitions/1-mi...e_button_modal
Am I the only one that thinks an online petition is enormously stupid and pointless?

[DSG-TDI]

This should not be a state issue. Period. Something needs to be done on a federal level to stop this marginalization of gays. It's damned disgraceful.

That would be a challenge since the White House doesn't even have an official stance on gay marriage other than the fact that President Obama's opinion on it is "evolving."

[GTiTOM]

This is now how I picture 61% of North Carolinians.

[nm+]

Anti-sodomoy laws are already unconstitutional so they would fail.

Coming to a supreme court near you: Lawrence v. Texas overturned in a 5-4.
I'm not joking. Lawrence was a 6-3 decision, but O'connor joined. She has been replace with Alito who would likely vote to overturn.
Kennedy will likely be retiring soon (He and Scalia have been on the bench the longest). If the Republicans take the White House this year, expect a Scalia or Thomas in his place.
Suddenly we have a 5-4 against legal BJs. Also a lot of other stuff -- watch how you vote for president.
-----

Also Chris, what about your children? I gather you have children and if you do, I imagine that you would do just about anything to make sure they get a fair shot in life. What if one of them is gay? (If you think this is a bad thing, you should probably get your head checked). Do you want your child denied the rights you have because of biology?

[twerked]

yall seem to forget there are 30 states that have similar bans..north carolina isn't the only state with bigots. we're just the most recent to claim it

from what i understand, now that it's part of the constitution the only way to have it repealed is by another public vote. which i could see happening before long

[Run L1ke H3LL]

Coming to a supreme court near you: Lawrence v. Texas overturned in a 5-4.
I'm not joking. Lawrence was a 6-3 decision, but O'connor joined. She has been replace with Alito who would likely vote to overturn.
Kennedy will likely be retiring soon (He and Scalia have been on the bench the longest). If the Republicans take the White House this year, expect a Scalia or Thomas in his place.
Suddenly we have a 5-4 against legal BJs. Also a lot of other stuff -- watch how you vote for president/

There isn't a straight man in the world that is going to outlaw BJ's, not even a religious one

[Notch__Johnson]

So you vote anti-old and they vote anti-liberal and here we are. The politicians win by pitting all the sheep against each other.

I just try to at least cancel their vote out. I'm not liberal, I go to both sides on certain subjects. Conservative on drugs, crime, and liberal on human rights such as gay marriage. I never have voted down party lines always was too unrealistic for me

But I do agree on the sheep analogy, we're all being distracted of the big picture while fighting over the crumbs

[nm+]

There isn't a straight man in the world that is going to outlaw BJ's, not even a religious one

****, well someone passed all those laws. Also Rick Santorum.

[GTiTOM]

There isn't a straight man in the world that is going to outlaw BJ's, not even a religious one

Not familiar with sodomy laws are you? Or the opinions of people like Rick Santorum or Tony Perkins?

[Run L1ke H3LL]

Not familiar with sodomy laws are you? Or the opinions of people like Rick Santorum or Tony Perkins?

It's all a ploy to get votes. Say one thing - do another. The people who'd vote for Santorum would like to think they'd outlaw BJ's but in reality they themselves would never outlaw it given the opportunity.

[nm+]

It's all a ploy to get votes. Say one thing - do another. The people who'd vote for Santorum would like to think they'd outlaw BJ's but in reality they themselves would never outlaw it given the opportunity.

They did last time. Also, most of these laws are still on the books. They don't need to be passed. Lawrence just needs to be overturned, and the religious bigots will try to do that.
Remember many of the law still on the books ban heterosexual sodomy, so the minute Lawerence goes down, your blow job is illegal in several states.
Of course it won't be enforced unless you're gay. . . . or black with a white woman or receiving from the sheriff's daughter.
And if you don't think the religious right wants to overturn Lawrence so they can ban gay sex, you're not paying attention.

[GTiTOM]

It's all a ploy to get votes. Say one thing - do another. The people who'd vote for Santorum would like to think they'd outlaw BJ's but in reality they themselves would never outlaw it given the opportunity.

You realize how little sense that makes right?

So people support the law, and the politicians say they'll support it, but they really don't support it because they are straight? So who are the 'people' who'd vote for them that are in support of these laws if they're not also straight men?

[Run L1ke H3LL]

You realize how little sense that makes right?

So people support the law, and the politicians say they'll support it, but they really don't support it because they are straight? So who are the 'people' who'd vote for them that are in support of these laws if they're not also straight men?

Yes, exactly - no one.

[GTiTOM]

Yes, exactly - no one.

So the politicians pretend to support it in order to covet votes of people who don't exist?

Yet these laws are on the books in several states, and are only illegal because, as nm+ pointed out, of a 6-3 Supreme Court ruling that could easily swing the other way depending on judicial appointments in the next few years?

You realize it was only in 2006 that Missouri repealed it's law against "homosexual conduct"? And that Texas, Kansas, and Oklahoma still haven't repealed their sodomy laws?

Ya, you're right, no one in this country wants to legislate the morality of bedroom behavior

[Run L1ke H3LL]

So the politicians pretend to support it in order to covet votes of people who don't exist?

Yet these laws are on the books in several states, and are only illegal because, as nm+ pointed out, of a 6-3 Supreme Court ruling that could easily swing the other way depending on judicial appointments in the next few years?

You realize it was only in 2006 that Missouri repealed it's law against "homosexual conduct"? And that Texas, Kansas, and Oklahoma still haven't repealed their sodomy laws?

Ya, you're right, no one in this country wants to legislate the morality of bedroom behavior

All sodomy laws have been repealed. Texas Kansas and Oklahoma still have homosexual conduct laws. Like I said before straight men aren't going to make it illegal.

[GTiTOM]

Like I said before straight men aren't going to make it illegal.

So who made it illegal in the first place? And who is pushing to have those laws back on the books?

[A.Wilder]

Hey, myself and a lot of Christians are tolerant of others. Please don't lump us all together.

the only group i'm lumping together are bigots. I have no problem with Christians, Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, Atheists, Satanists, etc.

[Air-over-water]

All sodomy laws have been repealed. Texas Kansas and Oklahoma still have homosexual conduct laws. Like I said before straight men aren't going to make it illegal.

Do you not understand that this has already happened?
So straight men HAVE made it illegal....
What are you getting at??

[Mk1Racer]

Lets not flip out here. What I'm said was fairly nuance-less and quickly typed. Let me clarify.

Pretty damn much. The bill is motivated by religion, plain and simple. The reason it exists and is passing is because of religious motivations.
Perhaps in some bizzaro non-religious world this exists as well. We can only speculate, it doesn't matter, we're here not there.

So, yes, I will say with certainty that 1.2 million people in NC are bigots of some strength, or at least led around by them.
Sure, a handful of those "yes" voters in NC are probably not religious - that simply makes them worse.


In order, yes, no, yes.
The first doesn't need more words. The middle we'll get to next. On the last: Yeah, I'm going to deride those that don't agree with my position on this. They want a group of people relegated to being second class citizens. It's abhorrent, regardless of motivation.


No. Audi said "Me and a lot of other Christians" and that is certainly true. But "a lot" is very vague. Does it mean a lot on a pure numbers basis? 10 million could think Audi's way, that's a lot. But held against 100milion that think differently, it's a small number.
My point is that 1.2 million is "a lot" of people as well. It's 63% of the voters in NC.
Prop 8 in California passed with 52% of the vote.
It's not about stereotyping Christians, or me treating them differently. If I judged people based on Christianity alone I'd exist in a lonely world lacking "a lot" of good people. It's about not belonging to something that's full of people which go against what you think is right. You can quit Christianity.

If I'm part of a completely optional group...say a book club called "Obrha's Book Club". There's 20 people in the club and 15 of them go around stealing candy from children pronouncing "This is the belief of Obrha's Book Club: Children should have no candy for it makes them read unwholesome things!" Seeing as it would be very hard to change the Club's dogma, lacking the necessary numbers to rewrite the bylaws I might quit the club and read on my own.

Um, I'm not flipping out, I'm simply calling you out on your double-standard.

And please get your facts straight. 1.2M is not 63% of the voters in NC. It may be 63% of the people that voted on this bill, but it's not 63% of the voters. The NC state board of elections site lists just under 6.3M registered voters in NC. They also list the party breakdown as ~2.74M Democrats vs. ~1.98M Republicans w/ ~1.57M unaffiliated. So, your 1.2M people that voted in favor of this bill represent <20% of the registered voters in NC. And the ~1.9M that voted on this bill represent ~30% of the registered voters in NC. That says that over 2/3 of the registered voters in NC didn't care enough about this issue to bother voting on it.

I like your club example. I think I'll expand on it. Let's say you're gay. And let's say that there's a group of gays out there that advocate sexual interaction between older and younger males. Let's call them NAMBLA. Now some of the things that NAMBLA members are involved in are quite possibly illegal, and cast gays in a negative light. If you don't like what NAMBLA stands for or does, you could try and change the organization, or I guess you could quit being gay. You know, because you may want to consider how your labelmates reflect on you.

Or maybe another one. You're black, and there are a couple of black clubs. Let's call them the Bloods and the Crips. You don't approve of what these clubs do. Maybe you should quit being black because of how your labelmates reflect on you.

See what I did there?

Don't expect anyone to give your argument any credibility when you are just as ignorant and uninformed, and employ the same tactics, as the group you deride.

[rich!]

welp - one more state to avoid. too bad they had good bbq.

[Air-over-water]

I like your club example. I think I'll expand on it. Let's say you're gay. And let's say that there's a group of gays out there that advocate sexual interaction between older and younger males. Let's call them NAMBLA. Now some of the things that NAMBLA members are involved in are quite possibly illegal, and cast gays in a negative light. If you don't like what NAMBLA stands for or does, you could try and change the organization, or I guess you could quit being gay. You know, because you may want to consider how your labelmates reflect on you.

Or maybe another one. You're black, and there are a couple of black clubs. Let's call them the Bloods and the Crips. You don't approve of what these clubs do. Maybe you should quit being black because of how your labelmates reflect on you.

See what I did there?

Don't expect anyone to give your argument any credibility when you are just as ignorant and uninformed, and employ the same tactics, as the group you deride.

Wait, are you comparing being religious with being gay or black?? Really??

[Papa Dras]

Well here they turned it into a political battle. Most of Colorado and lawmakers approve of this, the Republicans decided they weren't going to let the Dems look good by passing this. So they just let it die.

http://kdvr.com/2012/05/08/house-gop...7-other-bills/

[Mk1Racer]

But I do agree on the sheep analogy, we're all being distracted of the big picture while fighting over the crumbs

Somebody gets it.

They did last time. Also, most of these laws are still on the books. They don't need to be passed. Lawrence just needs to be overturned, and the religious bigots will try to do that.
Remember many of the law still on the books ban heterosexual sodomy, so the minute Lawerence goes down, your blow job is illegal in several states.
Of course it won't be enforced unless you're gay. . . . or black with a white woman or receiving from the sheriff's daughter.
And if you don't think the religious right wants to overturn Lawrence so they can ban gay sex, you're not paying attention.

NC has ~3/4M more registered Democrats than Republicans. Why was A1 able to pass?

[Air-over-water]

NC has ~3/4M more registered Democrats than Republicans. Why was A1 able to pass?

Americans DO NOT vote.
And are Christians only allowed to be Republicans?

[Mk1Racer]

Wait, are you comparing being religious with being gay or black?? Really??

No, what I was doing was pointing out how absurd it was for Robstr to suggest that people 'quit' their religious beliefs because some members of the group may cast the group in a negative light.

[deucestudios]

Hey, myself and a lot of Christians are tolerant of others. Please don't lump us all together.

Or how about a law that says "The government is no longer involved in marriage because it's between two individuals, not between two individuals and the state"?

Nail on the head. Seriously.

NC has ~3/4M more registered Democrats than Republicans. Why was A1 able to pass?

Bipartisan politics are ruining our country. If the earth were flat, maybe then would there only be 2 sides to a story.

[Air-over-water]

No, what I was doing was pointing out how absurd it was for Robstr to suggest that people 'quit' their religious beliefs because some members of the group may cast the group in a negative light.

Which, going on what you compared it to, sounds like you think being gay and black are a choice just like religion...
People can change their religious beliefs, but I do not think a gay black man has much chance of waking up one day being a straight Asian man.

[Mk1Racer]

Americans DO NOT vote.
And are Christians only allowed to be Republicans?

I agree, Americans don't vote. I personally do. I figure if I don't vote, I have no right to complain if I don't like how things go.

The comment on the margin of Dems over Repubs was in response to nm+'s comment about the 'religious right'. If it's just the 'religious right' that's pushing this agenda, why was A1 able to pass w/ an ~3/4M Democrat advantage? Or is it possible that you have Democrats that are 'religious bigots'?

It's just too easy for people to say that if you supported A1, you did it for religious reasons.