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    Thread: How much HP/TQ do you REALLY need in a DD?

    1. Member sicklyscott's Avatar
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      05-09-2012 09:46 AM #1
      I'm sure lots of you are like me, you want the most power possible in your daily driver. Face it, we're all addicted to that wonderful feeling of being thrown back in our seats and knowing that our cars are the fastest in the work parking lot. The problem is however that generally with high HP comes low MPGs. My question to TCL is would you be ok to give up 50% of your power for a 50% increase in fuel economy?

      Here's my personal situation. We have 4 cars in my household, my wife drives a '12 S60 T6 and I have a '01 2.5RS, '04 M3 and a '78 MGB. All these cars get below 30 mpg on the highway (M3 and S60 are tied at 27) and around town we barely reach 22 in any car. This is really starting to bother me. I've been looking at cars that are in hatch form, come in manual and can achieve 30+ mixed driving. This is quite a small population and I wouldn't call any car that qualifies as "fast". I'm thinking of maybe buying a Focus 5-door or even a Golf TDI but I'm not sure if I can live with those power levels.

      So what say you TCL? Would you trade your keys in on a quick car for a slower car with better MPG? If you have done this, do you regret it? How did you cope with the "lack" of power?
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    2. Member teklord69's Avatar
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      05-09-2012 09:48 AM #2
      As long as over 151 torque you are ok.

    3. Member Ben.Reilly's Avatar
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      05-09-2012 09:54 AM #3
      Quote Originally Posted by sicklyscott View Post

      So what say you TCL? Would you trade your keys in on a quick car for a slower car with better MPG?
      No. I am a car guy.
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    4. Member InfinitiG's Avatar
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      05-09-2012 09:54 AM #4
      Quote Originally Posted by teklord69 View Post
      As long as over 151 torque you are ok.
      Dang how am I not dead?

      I've been thinking about this recently, I really like the 200 hp/142 lb/ft in my car, driving around town is a pleasure and freeway cruising is excellent. In a light car you really don't need much more.
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    5. Senior Member Lwize's Avatar
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      05-09-2012 09:55 AM #5
      As long as your car has no trouble keeping up with traffic, you're good.
      Anything more than that is flaunting it.

      CBS cares.
      :gift:

    6. 05-09-2012 09:55 AM #6
      200 per ton of both.

    7. Member Shomegrown's Avatar
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      05-09-2012 09:56 AM #7
      If you're getting 22/27 out of the M3, I'd be more concerned that you're simply not enjoying the vehicle.

      Why does it bother you? I assume it's not for financial reasons as we're not talking about much money here...

    8. Member SebTheDJ's Avatar
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      05-09-2012 09:58 AM #8
      about treefiddy

    9. Member Boogety Boogety's Avatar
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      05-09-2012 10:11 AM #9
      Do you want to commute to work in your DD? Then get the cheapest-to-own-and-run, best possible mileage car.

      Do you want to do your boy racer bit and impress everyone with how cool your car is and how much power you have in rush hour traffic? Then get something with lots of HP/TQ (even though 99.99% of the fellow commuters don't give a rat's ass).

      People with self-esteem issues drive something to show off as a DD. Others, the more-intelligent ones, see it as a way to get to work cheaply, save money they can use in their life and for their true FUN vehicle, and don't think twice about it.

      And spare me the "I want to make my commute time count" crap. It's a commute, not an autocross...

    10. Member teklord69's Avatar
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      05-09-2012 10:18 AM #10
      Instead of getting rid of your car in trade for better MPG, have you ever considered the Tornado air? We used to have this on my wife's Jeep GC and we noticed considerable increase in MPG (up to 5mpg difference). Gimmick? I don't think so..read the various reviews on this product. They really don't cost that much and really..what do you have to lose? Installs in minutes and you will notice a difference in power and mpg. I now have this on my BMW, Jeep Commander, and the Ford Explorer Sport Trac.




    11. Member SVTDanny's Avatar
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      05-09-2012 10:22 AM #11
      My trip meter reads 50 miles, and my gas gauge is sitting on 1/2. However, it's not a DD so I don't really care, and the fun is well worth the hit at the gas pump. I did average 22-23 on the highway with the cruise control set, though, so it's not unbearable if you stay out of it.

    12. 05-09-2012 10:25 AM #12
      I have a whopping 130 hp with 135 torks in a 3000# car with a power sapping automatic transmission, and I live above 5000'.... and I haven't died in traffic yet. My car still gets crap fuel economy around town and I would kill for something that did better than 20-22 city.

    13. Banned seadoo2006's Avatar
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      05-09-2012 10:27 AM #13
      My 2003 Civic EX 5-speed with the D17A2 SOHC VTEC had 127hp/114lbft. Was peppy enough in
      traffic and got 40+mpg at 75mph on the highway and over 40,000 miles, I NEVER AVERAGED A
      TANK LESS THAN 30MPG
      . I think, in that car, with that transmission, it was perfect. Plus, you
      could throw it around some corners and it handled pretty nicely actually.

      Unfortunately, I live in snow country, and that car SUCKED in the snow.


    14. Member TurboWraith's Avatar
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      05-09-2012 10:30 AM #14
      Perfectly happy with the Mazda's 150hp. Would more be more fun? Yeah. But I only drive it to and from work. And even then, I avoid it as much as possible. Bike is far more entertaining than any car I will ever be able to own.

    15. Member SoCalDubber's Avatar
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      05-09-2012 10:31 AM #15
      What I consider to be the perfect DD/commuter. 101hp @ 98lb-ft (plus an intake and Magnaflow)

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    16. Member Grey Mouser's Avatar
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      05-09-2012 10:32 AM #16
      Quote Originally Posted by SoCalDubber View Post
      What I consider to be the perfect DD/commuter.

      Elbows too pointy.

    17. Member vasillalov's Avatar
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      05-09-2012 10:37 AM #17
      Depends on the weight of the car!

      Ultimately, you need enough hp and torque so that you don't get passed by soccer moms in minivans.

    18. Member threebeerbuzz's Avatar
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      05-09-2012 10:52 AM #18
      Quote Originally Posted by vasillalov View Post
      Depends on the weight of the car!

      Ultimately, you need enough hp and torque so that you don't get passed by soccer moms in minivans.
      Minivans are pretty fast these days...

    19. Member Bakounine's Avatar
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      05-09-2012 10:55 AM #19
      I guess it's more about hp/ton and ft/lbs/ton + powerband and preference considerations than actual power figures.

      My first cars were mk2 VW's with the good old 1.8 8v engine. Far from the most powerful, but decent low-end torque combined with low weight made these cars enjoyable.

      I later had a Mazda 3 2.0. While it did have enough power, I did not like the experience because of the powerband. It needed some revs to get going. While this was not an issue on back roads or the highway, from stop light to stop light 9it was my DD), it felt miserable. That's why I like small turbos like I have on the GTI. The engine may not be the most powerful, but it is plenty flexible and smooth.

    20. Member BetterByDesign's Avatar
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      05-09-2012 10:56 AM #20
      I am now looking to get something with maximum comfort and mpg for a daily.

      I dont get the M-F guys tearing out of a parking lot with 250-300 hp straight into line of minivans and mediocrity.

      Whats the point?

    21. Member zaYG's Avatar
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      05-09-2012 10:57 AM #21
      My Saab has 250 hp or so. I enjoy it, but I would DEFINITELY get rid of it for a smaller, more fun car with a lot less power. More mpg is just a plus.

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    22. 05-09-2012 10:57 AM #22
      Quote Originally Posted by seadoo2006 View Post
      My 2003 Civic EX 5-speed with the D17A2 SOHC VTEC had 127hp/114lbft. Was peppy enough in
      traffic and got 40+mpg at 75mph on the highway and over 40,000 miles, I NEVER AVERAGED A
      TANK LESS THAN 30MPG
      . I think, in that car, with that transmission, it was perfect. Plus, you
      could throw it around some corners and it handled pretty nicely actually.

      Unfortunately, I live in snow country, and that car SUCKED in the snow.

      it sucked in rain too. But I had it worse than you, I had a D17a1, but it was a good daily driver though needed better seats

    23. Member vasillalov's Avatar
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      05-09-2012 10:58 AM #23
      Quote Originally Posted by threebeerbuzz View Post
      Minivans are pretty fast these days...
      I know. My point still stands though, no?

    24. Member romanl's Avatar
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      05-09-2012 10:59 AM #24
      Quote Originally Posted by sicklyscott View Post
      I've been looking at cars that are in hatch form, come in manual and can achieve 30+ mixed driving. This is quite a small population and I wouldn't call any car that qualifies as "fast". I'm thinking of maybe buying a Focus 5-door or even a Golf TDI but I'm not sure if I can live with those power levels.

      So what say you TCL? Would you trade your keys in on a quick car for a slower car with better MPG? If you have done this, do you regret it? How did you cope with the "lack" of power?
      i love my '10 TDI GOLF manual, plenty of power to get in trouble.
      the only problem is i couldn't get 30+ in it unless i really try to burn rubber at ever corner or sat in traffic for few hours over few mile drive
      true story, i would have to try really hard to get down to 30

    25. Member BetterByDesign's Avatar
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      05-09-2012 10:59 AM #25
      Quote Originally Posted by vasillalov View Post
      Depends on the weight of the car!

      Ultimately, you need enough hp and torque so that you don't get passed by soccer moms in minivans.
      Those minivans are powered by anger, not HP.

    26. Member Voodoo.T's Avatar
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      05-09-2012 11:00 AM #26
      Quote Originally Posted by SoCalDubber View Post
      What I consider to be the perfect DD/commuter. 101hp @ 98lb-ft (plus an intake and Magnaflow)

      Having now had one as a rental, albeit in a much more pleasing shade of brown than... that, I can agree that this was adequate to keep me from getting killed by idiots in big trucks trying to kill me while I was in Houston. And it was also an autotragic. Probably would've been more entertaining with a proper transmission.

      HP/TQ isn't everything, especially in a lighter car. The Fiat moves just fine with ~100hp. I have 215hp/230tq or thereabouts in my 9-3, and that's more than enough for a daily.
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    27. Member davidraeside's Avatar
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      05-09-2012 11:02 AM #27
      Quote Originally Posted by teklord69 View Post
      As long as over 151 torque you are ok.
      Current: 2006 Acura CSX, 1996 Porsche 911 C2
      Gone: 2004 Jeep Liberty Renegade (375,000 kms), 2007 VW GTI (BMP), 2001 VW Jetta Wolfsburg Edition, 1994 Ford Ranger (calipso green), 1987 Jeep YJ

    28. Member NoLongerLow's Avatar
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      05-09-2012 11:02 AM #28
      I daily drove my '93 Miata w/ no issues. They have what? 110hp on a good day? I never felt "unsafe" while merging on to the highway. Cruised around at 70mpg usually got around 30mpgs.
      I <3 driving.

    29. 05-09-2012 11:02 AM #29
      Quote Originally Posted by Ben.Reilly View Post
      No. I am a car guy.
      I'm a car guy and I did just that.

      All depends on your priorities.

      I had an 06 WRX that, when driven easily, was averaging 20mpg on my commute and had me filling up every 2.5 days. At between $40-45 a tank, that got old fast. It was fun to drive, but it was costing me about $500 a month or more on gas.

      Sold it after 6 weeks and got an 09 Civic with an auto. Yes its boring, yes its slow, but it handles highway trips fine (where almost all my commute is anyways) and the gas savings alone makes it worth it for a dd where I'm not utilizing the WRXs power or handling capabilities.

    30. Member vasillalov's Avatar
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      05-09-2012 11:06 AM #30
      Quote Originally Posted by BetterByDesign View Post
      Those minivans are powered by anger, not HP.
      Hahhaa! Nicely done!

    31. Member Denniswhat's Avatar
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      05-09-2012 11:12 AM #31
      As long as I can get traction in third with street tires

    32. Member sicklyscott's Avatar
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      05-09-2012 03:36 PM #32
      Quote Originally Posted by Shomegrown View Post
      If you're getting 22/27 out of the M3, I'd be more concerned that you're simply not enjoying the vehicle.

      Why does it bother you? I assume it's not for financial reasons as we're not talking about much money here...
      The next year or so might bring a new family member to...err...our family. I can't put a childseat in the back of the M and I can't justify spending gobs of money on new(er) cars with bad fuel economy (the thought of a e90 M3 crossed my mind). I'd also like to keep this car for a while and as time passes the more expensive gas will get.

      Trust me, many times the M is in the mid-teens when it comes to mpg.
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    33. Member Dr. Woo's Avatar
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      05-09-2012 03:42 PM #33
      I went from 355/385 to 160/146 on my DD.

      18 mpg combined to 33 mpg combined. Plenty of grunt for my commute.
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    34. Member Omnilith's Avatar
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      05-09-2012 04:17 PM #34
      About 25-23 lbs/hp and 21-19 lbs/tq is about right.

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      05-09-2012 04:25 PM #35
      My last several cars have been between 200-250hp. My current GTI is around 220 and it's plenty for DD duties. It's the first new car I've had and I really like having the creature comforts. Having NAV and bluetooth makes it a nice place to be slogging back and forth to work. The fact that it only uses 3/4 of a tank every two weeks is nice.

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