How much HP/TQ do you REALLY need in a DD?

[6cylVWguy]

There's a big difference between what you really need and what you like or want. I owned a VW Fox with 81 hp, a mkII Jetta with 85 hp (likely much less when I had it!), and a largish peugeot wagon with 96 hp. None of the car were a powerhouse and none had much torque. They got me around just fine. Was it fun pushing these cars? Mildly, but none were particularly gratifying because they all sounded like they were going to blow up over 4k rpms.

As I've gotten older, I've owned faster and faster cars, all of which had more power and torque than I needed. But I can tell you they were much more fun to push hard than the weak cars I owned before. I think a better question would be what you think are the characteristics that make a car fun.

Edit: I wouldn't trade power/tq for economy, unless there was some financial/practical reason I needed to do so. Though some of the bigger V6 TDI motors out there are a ton of fun!

[rogM]

how about a used TDI? tons of torque and enough HP and you get the awesome MPG...
When I am feeling fast I drive the bmw, when I have to get somewhere fast with the family i drive the k04 Tiguan...

[patrickvr6]

Power and mileage don't always equate.

This gets 9mpg in town and 11 on the Interstate.

Bronco_Dyno by willtel, on Flickr

[MightyDSM]

152 or more

[01tj]

225's been pretty good for me

[Air and water do mix]

No. I am a car guy.

Right. Because all car guys want the same thing. Got it.

I'll take handling over power every day in my DD.

[E34M50]

So what say you TCL? Would you trade your keys in on a quick car for a slower car with better MPG? If you have done this, do you regret it? How did you cope with the "lack" of power?

yes, i traded this,


for this,


although the hyundai has more power here, it wasn't as fun to drive as the E30. So no regrets whatsoever, my life has improved considerably since. The society felt more livable. i can merge safely. I didn't have to deal with a lack of power. And while we're at it, even my sex life got beter. All in all, i felt like i was dying when i owned the M3. It was one of those pain that i wouldn't wish upon my enemy.

[alfafan]

Having now had one as a rental, albeit in a much more pleasing shade of brown than... that, I can agree that this was adequate to keep me from getting killed by idiots in big trucks trying to kill me while I was in Houston. And it was also an autotragic. Probably would've been more entertaining with a proper transmission.

HP/TQ isn't everything, especially in a lighter car. The Fiat moves just fine with ~100hp. I have 215hp/230tq or thereabouts in my 9-3, and that's more than enough for a daily.

I've owned several powerful cars and I can't say that many have been as fun to dd than my 500. Onramps are no problem, cloverleafs are fun and certain inclines just require a downshift.

[Jan PL S6]

No. I am a car guy.

/thread

[Saintor]

I was happy with 184HP in my E46. 0-60mph were between 6.7-7.2s. More than adequate and the engine was fun. This 200HP engine is also fun, but with an automatic, I would welcome another 40HP or shorter gearing.

[AggvGtivr6]

I'd be happy with a Tial kit and 550whp; the best boost controller is your right foot....

[Fast2.0L]

Mk1 VW with a turbo'd ABA has been the best DD for me. At 1,900lbs and 300+lbs/torque in street trim it moves around nicely. I get about 30mpg average and as 36mpg on the highway. It's a good combo of being frugal while still putting some fear into you.

[Buckeye(OH)]

I have about 300/290. It's probably a little much as the only time I get to enjoy it is on the on-ramp. Straight into cruise at 70 after that for 12 miles. Kind of a waste, really.

[AggvGtivr6]

I have about 300/290. It's probably a little much as the only time I get to enjoy it is on the on-ramp. Straight into cruise at 70 after that for 12 miles. Kind of a waste, really.

I blame living in Ohio, it's horrible for anyone that likes decent roads to enjoy their car. Unless you live in SE Ohio.

[SGelshawno]

My summer DD I have 125hp 51ft-lb torque do 0-60 in about 3 seconds and get around 60 mpg...

[SnowGTI2003]

I'd be perfectly happy with 200hp in a 2800lb-ish package for a DD as long as the suspension was fun.

[71DubBugBug]

at least around 150 hp, and a little more torque

[Pinstripe]

120hp/tq for every 2000lbs should be more then enough for a daily driver as long as it's properly spread along the rpm band, ie: flat, not peaky.

[Buckeye(OH)]

I blame living in Ohio, it's horrible for anyone that likes decent roads to enjoy their car. Unless you live in SE Ohio.

Toledo. Roads are HORRIFIC. Might as well be Michigan.

[Stereodude]

How much HP/TQ do you REALLY need in a DD?

More than whatever I'm driving as my DD at any given time.

[toucci]

Peak HP/TQ numbers are not the correct metrics for a daily driver, IMO. Most of my commuting is done below 3000 rpms so the torque curve below that is most important for me.

[adrew]

106 hp for 2300 lbs is plenty for me. Yes, you have to work the shifter and rev it out a bit to merge, and downshift to pass quickly, but I have been averaging 36-38 MPG so far in mixed driving.

[smugfree3]

mk2 1.8t swap here. around 290whp and 300ish torque. fast?, yeah duh of course. the mileage tho is around 25 city 31-32 highway, have gotten as high as 35.
this summer i am switching to a taller final drive and injectors with a better spray pattern. if those werent options, id be willing to give up 50whp to gain 5 more mpg.
for the record, my driving style, combined with the low weight of the car means that i never have to go above 5inhg on the boost gauge to keep up in traffic (idle is 17inhg).

[pefer]

So I DD a POS, slow, stinky, noisy, plastic body, no crumple zone, death wish, bla bla, I heard it all... by most peoples standards. Like I friggin give a shiit or care at my age.

It's a a turbo diesel smart with 40 hp (no clue the torq's), straight pipe exhaust, never held up any traffic by merging on highways, and I'm usually going on the fast lane myself... ~35 to 40Km/day, 2 weeks on $21. Suits me just fine, plus parking is always no problem.

If I drive the minivan the same, it is more like $50/week.

I've DD 300hp+ before, the need for that and fun wears fast out specially sitting idling in traffic and all the gas expenses. My opinion comes from 30 some years of driving.

[DrFrisker]

although the hyundai has more power here, it wasn't as fun to drive as the E30. So no regrets whatsoever, my life has improved considerably since. The society felt more livable. i can merge safely. I didn't have to deal with a lack of power. And while we're at it, even my sex life got beter. All in all, i felt like i was dying when i owned the M3. It was one of those pain that i wouldn't wish upon my enemy.

I'm really starting to feel the same way with my mr2. Fcukin blows. coming from a 03 mark 4 jetta, sex life greatly diminished.

[aleksl]

My commute is about 38 miles per day

Old: Civic 140hp 128tq 30mpg regular

New: 335i 375hp 415tq 20mpg premium

[jacobyb]

I don't care about fuel economy for the most part, and I don't car what people think about what I drive. I just drive what I want to drive. I'm unloading the GTO soon for a CTS-V that gets less MPG's by about 5. I don't care. It's the car I want.

[Rapid Decompression]

I really like 250-300 hp range

[bigbodybenz]

I'm sure lots of you are like me, you want the most power possible in your daily driver. Face it, we're all addicted to that wonderful feeling of being thrown back in our seats and knowing that our cars are the fastest in the work parking lot. The problem is however that generally with high HP comes low MPGs. My question to TCL is would you be ok to give up 50% of your power for a 50% increase in fuel economy?

Here's my personal situation. We have 4 cars in my household, my wife drives a '12 S60 T6 and I have a '01 2.5RS, '04 M3 and a '78 MGB. All these cars get below 30 mpg on the highway (M3 and S60 are tied at 27) and around town we barely reach 22 in any car. This is really starting to bother me. I've been looking at cars that are in hatch form, come in manual and can achieve 30+ mixed driving. This is quite a small population and I wouldn't call any car that qualifies as "fast". I'm thinking of maybe buying a Focus 5-door or even a Golf TDI but I'm not sure if I can live with those power levels.

So what say you TCL? Would you trade your keys in on a quick car for a slower car with better MPG? If you have done this, do you regret it? How did you cope with the "lack" of power?

The Golf TDI should keep you happy. The last time I drove a 2.5rs I thought it was disappointingly slow and the TDI is at least going to feel faster. You can easily average over 30mpgs with one of those. I averaged about 34mpgs over the life of mine and that was 85% backroad all hills and maybe 15% highway.

[Surf Green]

As long as over 151 torque you are ok.

149 torks. Can almost ded? Survive only on Diesel Fury LOlz.

Saddest part is that I rarely dip more than halfway in to the throttle.
Most of my full throttle sprints are after I've followed some high powered sporty premium brand vehicle around an entrance ramp at 12 mph.

[boner]

As long as it doesn't make passing on a 2 lane road an excersise in butt clenching fear of not making it back into your lane in time on a reasonable stretch then i'm happy enough.

In a car, that'd be somewhere in the 150hp/tq range. Provided of course that it doesn't weigh like 3500lbs though......

[FissionMailed]

some BS about the tornado "fuel saver" nonsense

Really, nobody has called this guy out yet?

edit: I'll go ahead and start. Your vehicle, through the modern marvel of electronic engine management, is already burning >99% of the fuel that's thrown into it. This thing isn't going to help that any. And beyond that, people spend a lot of time and money to try to smooth out their intake manifolds. You want to ADD turbulence to the air? Come on...

What likely happened is this:

You saw the price of gas going up, and you decided to look for ways to improve MPG without buying a new car. You saw all the advice on driving slower and whatnot (which you likely have been doing, subconsciously), but then you saw this magical wonder product that gives you 50hp and 23 more MPG yet somehow isn't installed on any car from the factory, and you had to buy it. You bought it, and lo and behold, your gas mileage went way up.

That's thanks to your quitting jackrabbit starts and likely using cruise control, not some mystical product.

PS, my answer to this thread: my GTI is absolutely perfect for a DD, and so was my VR6 Mk4 Jetta, however, I made do just fine with 90hp.

edit 2: if you're joking i hate you

[DoktaJoch]

Need? In a car the weight and size of a Golf less than 80hp. I had the European 1.4 80hp Golf as a loaner once and it was absolutely safe and even mildly entertaining to drive. 65-70hp would probably be somewhat sufficent.

I would however not recommend nor buy a car in that size with less than 100hp, as IMO the extra hp make passing and driving a bit faster on the Autobahn much easier.

When my girlfriend was looking for an affordable used car a few years ago, I insisted that she tries out some other cars than the common 55/60hp base model Fiesta/Corsa/Polo/... hatchbacks. She ended up with a 75hp Clio, which is really all I would need. I would not hesitate to drive that car everywhere. And that is in Germany, the country of congested though widly not speed-limited Autobahnen. My GTI is more fun though.

[patrickvr6]

Really, nobody has called this guy out yet?

edit: I'll go ahead and start. Your vehicle, through the modern marvel of electronic engine management, is already burning >99% of the fuel that's thrown into it. This thing isn't going to help that any. And beyond that, people spend a lot of time and money to try to smooth out their intake manifolds. You want to ADD turbulence to the air? Come on...

What likely happened is this:

You saw the price of gas going up, and you decided to look for ways to improve MPG without buying a new car. You saw all the advice on driving slower and whatnot (which you likely have been doing, subconsciously), but then you saw this magical wonder product that gives you 50hp and 23 more MPG yet somehow isn't installed on any car from the factory, and you had to buy it. You bought it, and lo and behold, your gas mileage went way up.

That's thanks to your quitting jackrabbit starts and likely using cruise control, not some mystical product.

PS, my answer to this thread: my GTI is absolutely perfect for a DD, and so was my VR6 Mk4 Jetta, however, I made do just fine with 90hp.

fa·ce·tious /fəˈsēSHəs/
Adjective:
Treating serious issues with deliberately inappropriate humor; flippant.

[GoRacers]

So what say you TCL? Would you trade your keys in on a quick car for a slower car with better MPG? If you have done this, do you regret it? How did you cope with the "lack" of power?

There are days I regret it, and days I am glad I did it.

I went from ~260hp, ~290ft/lbs in a MKV GTI to a CRZ. I probably still have just as much fun on my way to work, just at lower speeds and with less wheelspin. The transmission and clutch are better in the CRZ, but the torque and noise was better in the GTI. CRZ handles better. CRZ stereo is worlds better. Gas mileage is much better, but I don't really drive enough to care about my MPGs.

The CRZ isn't really my "fun" car, but more of a reliable DD while I fill the garage with toys.