how about a used TDI? tons of torque and enough HP and you get the awesome MPG...
When I am feeling fast I drive the bmw, when I have to get somewhere fast with the family i drive the k04 Tiguan...
There's a big difference between what you really need and what you like or want. I owned a VW Fox with 81 hp, a mkII Jetta with 85 hp (likely much less when I had it!), and a largish peugeot wagon with 96 hp. None of the car were a powerhouse and none had much torque. They got me around just fine. Was it fun pushing these cars? Mildly, but none were particularly gratifying because they all sounded like they were going to blow up over 4k rpms.
As I've gotten older, I've owned faster and faster cars, all of which had more power and torque than I needed. But I can tell you they were much more fun to push hard than the weak cars I owned before. I think a better question would be what you think are the characteristics that make a car fun.
Edit: I wouldn't trade power/tq for economy, unless there was some financial/practical reason I needed to do so. Though some of the bigger V6 TDI motors out there are a ton of fun!
Last edited by 6cylVWguy; 05-09-2012 at 04:31 PM.
although the hyundai has more power here, it wasn't as fun to drive as the E30. So no regrets whatsoever, my life has improved considerably since. The society felt more livable. i can merge safely. I didn't have to deal with a lack of power. And while we're at it, even my sex life got beter. All in all, i felt like i was dying when i owned the M3. It was one of those pain that i wouldn't wish upon my enemy.
Remember take hold of your time here
Give some meanings to the means to your end
I was happy with 184HP in my E46. 0-60mph were between 6.7-7.2s. More than adequate and the engine was fun. This 200HP engine is also fun, but with an automatic, I would welcome another 40HP or shorter gearing.
2007 E90 AW 323i Step | Lowered 1.25"/1" | BMW Performance Exhaust | PBX | Debadged | Scangauge II | Style 162 18" & 161 17" wheels & rear 15mm spacers
Mk1 VW with a turbo'd ABA has been the best DD for me. At 1,900lbs and 300+lbs/torque in street trim it moves around nicely. I get about 30mpg average and as 36mpg on the highway. It's a good combo of being frugal while still putting some fear into you.
ABA Swap How To
1983 Rabbit GTI 2.0 Turbo
mk2 1.8t swap here. around 290whp and 300ish torque. fast?, yeah duh of course. the mileage tho is around 25 city 31-32 highway, have gotten as high as 35.
this summer i am switching to a taller final drive and injectors with a better spray pattern. if those werent options, id be willing to give up 50whp to gain 5 more mpg.
for the record, my driving style, combined with the low weight of the car means that i never have to go above 5inhg on the boost gauge to keep up in traffic (idle is 17inhg).
FS: 02J/O2A mechanical clutch slave
02J wavetrac LSD
12" electric fan
So I DD a POS, slow, stinky, noisy, plastic body, no crumple zone, death wish, bla bla, I heard it all... by most peoples standards. Like I friggin give a shiit or care at my age.
It's a a turbo diesel smart with 40 hp (no clue the torq's), straight pipe exhaust, never held up any traffic by merging on highways, and I'm usually going on the fast lane myself... ~35 to 40Km/day, 2 weeks on $21. Suits me just fine, plus parking is always no problem.
If I drive the minivan the same, it is more like $50/week.
I've DD 300hp+ before, the need for that and fun wears fast out specially sitting idling in traffic and all the gas expenses. My opinion comes from 30 some years of driving.
Last edited by pefer; 05-09-2012 at 09:40 PM.
I really like 250-300 hp range
Originally Posted by skin1488760
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Saddest part is that I rarely dip more than halfway in to the throttle.
Most of my full throttle sprints are after I've followed some high powered sporty premium brand vehicle around an entrance ramp at 12 mph.
As long as it doesn't make passing on a 2 lane road an excersise in butt clenching fear of not making it back into your lane in time on a reasonable stretch then i'm happy enough.
In a car, that'd be somewhere in the 150hp/tq range. Provided of course that it doesn't weigh like 3500lbs though......
edit: I'll go ahead and start. Your vehicle, through the modern marvel of electronic engine management, is already burning >99% of the fuel that's thrown into it. This thing isn't going to help that any. And beyond that, people spend a lot of time and money to try to smooth out their intake manifolds. You want to ADD turbulence to the air? Come on...
What likely happened is this:
You saw the price of gas going up, and you decided to look for ways to improve MPG without buying a new car. You saw all the advice on driving slower and whatnot (which you likely have been doing, subconsciously), but then you saw this magical wonder product that gives you 50hp and 23 more MPG yet somehow isn't installed on any car from the factory, and you had to buy it. You bought it, and lo and behold, your gas mileage went way up.
That's thanks to your quitting jackrabbit starts and likely using cruise control, not some mystical product.
PS, my answer to this thread: my GTI is absolutely perfect for a DD, and so was my VR6 Mk4 Jetta, however, I made do just fine with 90hp.
edit 2: if you're joking i hate you
Last edited by FissionMailed; 05-10-2012 at 08:27 AM.
Need? In a car the weight and size of a Golf less than 80hp. I had the European 1.4 80hp Golf as a loaner once and it was absolutely safe and even mildly entertaining to drive. 65-70hp would probably be somewhat sufficent.
I would however not recommend nor buy a car in that size with less than 100hp, as IMO the extra hp make passing and driving a bit faster on the Autobahn much easier.
When my girlfriend was looking for an affordable used car a few years ago, I insisted that she tries out some other cars than the common 55/60hp base model Fiesta/Corsa/Polo/... hatchbacks. She ended up with a 75hp Clio, which is really all I would need. I would not hesitate to drive that car everywhere. And that is in Germany, the country of congested though widly not speed-limited Autobahnen. My GTI is more fun though.
I went from ~260hp, ~290ft/lbs in a MKV GTI to a CRZ. I probably still have just as much fun on my way to work, just at lower speeds and with less wheelspin. The transmission and clutch are better in the CRZ, but the torque and noise was better in the GTI. CRZ handles better. CRZ stereo is worlds better. Gas mileage is much better, but I don't really drive enough to care about my MPGs.
The CRZ isn't really my "fun" car, but more of a reliable DD while I fill the garage with toys.