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    Thread: 2013 Sonata: Manual down, price up.

    1. Senior Member VarianceVQ's Avatar
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      05-09-2012 02:32 PM #1
      Nobody wants a three-pedal Sonata.



      TRAILBLAZING SONATA DELIGHTS WITH MORE FEATURES, MORE VALUE, AND BEST-EVER RESIDUAL VALUE FOR 2013

      Award-Winning Midsize Sedan Says "Bring It" to the new Crop of Mid-Size Competitors

      HIGHLIGHTS

      Sonata was the third best-selling mid-size retail car in 2011, behind only Camry and Accord, and ahead of Altima, Fusion, and Malibu
      ALG has rewarded Sonata's low incentive spending and low fleet mix with its highest-ever residual values for 2013
      Heated seats added as standard equipment to all models and packages except base GLS model
      Sunroof choices expanded for Sonata Limited

      COSTA MESA, Calif., May 8, 2012 – Hyundai Sonata, the mid-size sedan that sent competitors back to the drawing board, is back for its third model year. In 2011, Sonata was the third best-selling mid-size sedan at retail, ahead of Nissan Altima, Ford Fusion and Chevy Malibu. This retail sales success comes with the segment's lowest incentive spending, averaging just a third of these three competitors' levels, the highest ratio of transaction price to MSRP and the highest residual values. Sonata owners in 2011 were also more satisfied with their car's fuel economy, design and value than owners of Camry, Accord, Altima, Fusion and Malibu, according to the J.D. Power 2011 APEAL Study.

      For 2013, Sonata builds on its trailblazing recipe of high-design and high fuel efficiency with more features, higher value, and better residual value than ever before. That's important, as the mid-size segment is more competitive than ever, with new competitors like the soon-to-be launched 2013 Ford Fusion and 2013 Nissan Altima borrowing pages from the Sonata playbook with improved fuel economy and design.

      Recognizing the Sonata's remarkable combination of high retail sales, low fleet mix and low incentive spending, ALG has rewarded the 2013 Hyundai Sonata with its best-ever residual value of 60 percent, a remarkable achievement for a car in the third year of its life cycle.

      For 2013, the Sonata GLS with Popular Equipment Package now has even more content, with the addition of fog lights and heated front seats. At $21,720 for a Sonata GLS with Popular Package, Sonata continues to offer an unmatched value position in the midsize segment.

      Sonata SE now comes with standard heated front seats and Sonata Limited comes standard with a traditional sunroof, while a panoramic sunroof is now part of the Limited Premium Package for 2013. Sonata also continues its remarkable level of fuel efficiency, with ratings of 24 mpg city, 28 combined, and 35 on the highway, the highest levels of owner-reported fuel economy satisfaction in the mid-size segment, and best power-to-weight ratio in the segment.

      FLUIDIC SCULPTURE DESIGN LANGUAGE
      Fluidic Sculpture is a consistent, cohesive design language that is used throughout the entire Hyundai showroom. It considers the interplay of natural, fluid elements with more rigid surfaces and structures to create the illusion of constant motion.

      The exterior of the Sonata is long, light and low. The high beltline allows for a long, sleek roofline accented by a third window. A monoform side profile includes flowing lines highlighted by a Hyundai signature chrome accent that spans the length of the car. Normally, this type of trim is only found around the windows. On the Sonata, this trim extends out from the headlamps, juts up along the hood and through the beltline. The face is bold with a large powerful chrome grille and headlamps that integrate precise details. The stance is completed by 16-, 17- or 18-inch multi-spoke wheels.

      The sophisticated look continues inside, where Hyundai has created an upscale ambiance thanks to a flow-through center console and instrument panel. These flowing surfaces complement the exterior design and wrap around the driver and passengers.

      ADVANCED POWERTRAINS
      The 2013 Sonata is powered by the original Theta II GDI 2.4-liter four-cylinder engine with a Gasoline Direct-Injection (GDI) fuel delivery system, which contributes to improved fuel efficiency and lower emissions. This shorter, more direct path of fuel delivery, allows for greater control of the fuel mixture at the optimum moment, thus improving efficiency. The fuel is injected by a camshaft-driven, high pressure pump that operates at pressures up to 2,175 psi. Direct injection also utilizes a higher than normal 11.3:1 compression ratio for increased power. The pistons are "dished" to increase combustion efficiency in the cylinder. This powerplant still delivers best-in-class fuel economy, best-in-class four-cylinder horsepower and best-in-class torque more than two years after its initial introduction.

      Sonata delivers an impressive 24 mpg city/35 mpg estimated highway fuel economy rating with the standard six-speed automatic transmission with SHIFTRONIC®. The horsepower and torque ratings for the Theta II GDI are 198 horsepower and 184 lb.-ft. of torque. In the SE trim, which includes a standard dual exhaust, the engine delivers 200 horsepower and 186 lb.-ft. of torque. This high-tech, all-aluminum, 16-valve engine features Dual Continuously Variable Valve Timing (DCVVT) and a Variable Induction System (VIS) for better engine breathing. A version of this engine also meets Partial Zero Emission Vehicle (PZEV) standards.

      With the 2.0-liter Theta II turbocharged GDI engine, the 2013 Sonata offers an unprecedented combination of segment-leading fuel efficiency and power – with 274 horsepower at 6,000 rpm and 269 lb.-ft of torque from 1,750 - 4,500 rpm and an estimated 22 mpg city and 34 mpg highway with regular fuel. Hyundai's turbocharged engine features a twin-scroll turbocharger that when combined with the GDI system, results in instantaneous power delivery. The 2.0T engine is available on the SE and Limited trim levels. The Sonata 2.0T SE adds an upgraded fully automatic temperature control system, and the Limited adds the SE's 18-inch hyper silver alloy wheels, dual exhaust, and steering wheel-mounted paddle shifters. All 2013 Sonatas utilize a six-speed automatic transmission with SHIFTRONIC® manual control.

      SUPPLE RIDE, AGILE HANDLING
      An advanced four-wheel independent suspension system combines a supple ride with precise handling and steering response for Sonata GLS, Limited and Hybrid models. Sonata uses MacPherson strut front and multi-link rear suspension systems with increased travel for improved wheel control and a smoother ride. All four wheels are controlled by coil springs, fade-resistant dual flow dampers and stabilizer bars. The suspension has been optimized to keep the vehicle flat during cornering and provide quick turn-in response. The rear suspension uses aluminum components to reduce weight and improve suspension performance. The GLS, Limited and Hybrid models also use advanced low-rolling resistance tires to improve fuel economy while maintaining good ride and handling performance.

      The Sonata SE is an even more exciting and willing partner for drivers who prefer sportier ride and handling dynamics. The sport-tuned suspension features stiffer springs and larger stabilizer bars, resulting in a 20 percent increase in roll stiffness. Low profile 18-inch tires round out the unique chassis components of the Sonata SE.

      All Sonatas are equipped with motor-driven electric power steering that adjusts instantly to changing driving conditions while improving fuel economy over a conventional steering system. A quick-ratio steering rack is used for crisp feel on turn-in. Sonata's turning diameter of 35.8 feet is better than Camry, Accord, Altima, Fusion and Malibu.


      HYUNDAI PACKAGING EFFICIENCY
      The sleek design, combined with Hyundai's expertise in interior packaging, delivers class-leading interior comfort, functionality and practicality. A sleek roofline typically compromises headroom and interior volume, but at 120.2 cubic feet, the Sonata has more interior volume than many of its key competitors. It is so spacious that Sonata continues to be classified by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) as a large car, truly a "class above" Camry, Altima, Fusion and Malibu (all are categorized as midsize cars). The Sonata shines even in trunk volume, with 16.4 cu. ft. of trunk space that gives it a 6.1 percent advantage over the Camry and a 10.4 percent advantage over Accord.

      Sonata is rich in ultra-high-strength steel, leading to world-class body rigidity. The Sonata is 25 percent stiffer in torsion and 19 percent stiffer in bending rigidity than its predecessor, yet it is lighter than many midsize sedans, while offering more interior room. This focus on power-to-weight ratio pays dividends across the board. The Sonata owes its ability to deliver both strong performance and excellent fuel economy in great part to its impressive power-to-weight efficiency.

      ADVANCED STANDARD SAFETY TECHNOLOGIES: PART OF HYUNDAI'S ASSURANCE COMMITMENT
      Sonata was built from the ground up with safety in mind, with a hot stamped ultra-high-strength steel body structure, advanced airbag technology and Electronic Stability Control (ESC), delivering on Hyundai's commitment to both active and passive safety technology leadership. Every 2013 Sonata has lifesaving ESC as standard equipment. This is important, because the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) has reported that ESC results in 35 percent fewer single-vehicle crashes and 30 percent fewer single-vehicle fatalities in passenger cars.

      The Sonata also features a state-of-the-art braking package. The package includes four-wheel disc brakes and an Anti-Lock Braking System (ABS) including Brake Assist, which provides maximum braking force when a panic stop is detected, and Electronic Brake-force Distribution (EBD) to automatically adjust the braking force to front and rear axles based on the vehicle loading conditions.

      Sonata features six airbags-including dual front, front seat-mounted side-impact, and front and rear side curtain airbags-along with active front-seat head restraints. Other passive safety features include shingle-style rear-seat head restraints for improved visibility, three-point seatbelts for all seating positions, front-seat seatbelt pretensioners and force limiters and a rear-seat Lower Anchors and Tethers for Children (LATCH) system for child seats.

      XM, HD RADIO TECHNOLOGY, BLUETOOTH AND TOUCH-SCREEN NAVIGATION DELIVER UNRIVALED MIDSIZE SEDAN TECHNOLOGY CHOICES

      2013 Sonata comes standard with three months of XM Satellite Radio
      Real-time XM NavTraffic, XM NAV Weather®, XM Sports Ticker and XM Stock Ticker on Navigation-equipped models
      Sonata is the first popular midsize sedan to offer the clarity of digital HD Radio Technology from the factory
      Bluetooth hands-free phone system standard
      Standard auxiliary iPod/USB inputs

      Touch-screen navigation is available on SE and Limited trim levels and includes a new high-resolution screen. This easy-to-use unit can be controlled via a 7-inch WVGA touchscreen or voice-activation by headliner-mounted microphone.

      The system features 8GB of flash memory and comes matched with a sound system that plays compact discs, accesses digital music files via Bluetooth streaming audio or allows driver and passenger to access their personal listening devices through the iPod/USB/auxiliary inputs. Bluetooth audio wirelessly streams music from select mobile phones to the head unit. Also, with a Bluetooth-enabled phone, one can look up a local restaurant and call for reservations before plotting the route.

      HYUNDAI BLUE LINK®
      Blue Link combines safety, service and infotainment features to simplify owners' lives and reduce distracted driving. Blue Link brings seamless connectivity directly into the car with technology like voice text messaging, POI web search download, turn-by-turn navigation, and monthly vehicle reporting. Hyundai Blue Link telematics is standard on the Sonata with up to a one-year complimentary trial period. Blue Link can be easily accessed from the buttons on the rearview mirror, the web and via a smart phone. Blue Link is offered in three packages: Assurance, Essentials and Guidance.

      Blue Link Assurance package:

      Automatic Collision Notification (ACN) and Assistance
      SOS Emergency Assistance
      Enhanced Roadside Assistance

      Blue Link Essentials package:

      Remote Access:

      Remote Door Lock/Unlock
      Remote Horn and Lights
      Panic Notification
      Remote Engine Start

      Convenience:

      Alarm Notification
      Quick Tips
      Location Sharing
      Voice Text Messaging

      Vehicle Self Diagnostics:

      Automated Diagnostic Trouble Code
      Maintenance Alert
      Recall Advisor
      Web Vehicle Diagnostics

      Theft Protection:

      Stolen Vehicle Recovery
      Stolen Vehicle Slowdown
      Vehicle Immobilization

      Safeguard:

      Valet Alert
      Geofence
      Speed Alert
      Curfew

      Blue Link Guidance package:

      Turn-by-Turn Navigation Service
      POI Search by advanced voice recognition system
      POI Web Search and Download
      Daily Route Guidance with Traffic Condition
      Traffic
      Gas Station Locations and Gas Prices
      Eco-Coach
      Restaurant Ratings
      Weather

      More details on Hyundai Blue Link are available at www.hyundaibluelink.com.
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    2. Member caj1's Avatar
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      05-09-2012 02:39 PM #2
      An I-4 with dual exhaust? Interesting..

    3. Member adrew's Avatar
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      05-09-2012 02:42 PM #3
      Quote Originally Posted by caj1 View Post
      An I-4 with dual exhaust? Interesting..
      It's just like this:
      Improving the signal-to-noise ratio • Come make some hard cider

    4. Member caj1's Avatar
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      05-09-2012 02:45 PM #4
      Ahh.. exhaust pipes.. strange that it would actually gain and not lose HP

    5. Member dieselraver's Avatar
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      05-09-2012 02:49 PM #5
      Quote Originally Posted by adrew View Post
      It's just like this:
      this setup makes 0 sense whatsoever... what is the benefit of this? "prettiness?"

    6. Member mymkivrubs's Avatar
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      05-09-2012 03:15 PM #6
      Quote Originally Posted by adrew View Post
      It's just like this:
      I'm sorry but this dual exhaust makes little sense. Somebody help me understand. WHY?

      I can understand the turbo, but, the car doesn't need dual exhaust....

    7. Member GruuvenNorth's Avatar
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      05-09-2012 03:17 PM #7
      Yay! 2 mufflers to replace
      Easy like Sunday Morning.

    8. Moderator Oliver@triplezoom's Avatar
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      05-09-2012 03:19 PM #8
      That "dual exhaust" is nothing new, and it isn't limited to cars with an inline motor. The old LT1 Camaro/Firebird had a similar setup.

    9. Senior Member VarianceVQ's Avatar
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      05-09-2012 03:20 PM #9
      Quote Originally Posted by mymkivrubs View Post
      I'm sorry but this dual exhaust makes little sense. Somebody help me understand. WHY?
      Because symmetry is attractive. Assuming you're a straight male (or gay woman): Don't you prefer your women (and yourself) to have two breasts? Don't you prefer them to be the same size? I trust this solves the mystery.
      Last edited by VarianceVQ; 05-09-2012 at 03:22 PM.
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    10. Senior Member VarianceVQ's Avatar
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      05-09-2012 03:21 PM #10
      Quote Originally Posted by GruuvenNorth View Post
      Yay! 2 mufflers to replace
      How often do you replace your mufflers?
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    11. Member TangoRed's Avatar
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      05-09-2012 03:27 PM #11
      I can't believe people are complaining about the split exhaust. Car makers have been doing this forever.
      Quote Originally Posted by DamienR8 View Post
      in 2038 you will have the ability to think of a car, then your body will actually turn into a car, then you will die in an accident.

    12. Senior Member PerL's Avatar
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      05-09-2012 03:28 PM #12
      Quote Originally Posted by Oliver@triplezoom View Post
      That "dual exhaust" is nothing new, and it isn't limited to cars with an inline motor. The old LT1 Camaro/Firebird had a similar setup.
      And the Audi TT, and the Audi A4, and the Ford Mondeo, and the Mazda 6 and several other cars.

    13. 05-09-2012 03:28 PM #13
      Quote Originally Posted by VarianceVQ View Post
      Because symmetry is attractive. Assuming you're a straight male (or gay woman): Don't you prefer your women (and yourself) to have two breasts? Don't you prefer them to be the same size? I trust this solves the mystery.
      So, what you're saying is... Total Recal?


      I don't see it as a big deal that it has a "fake" dual exhaust. As already mentioned - makes for a more attractive symmetrical look.

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      05-09-2012 03:33 PM #14
      I don't see why people use evidence of not selling them as reasoning that people don't want manual transmissions in cars like this. I work at a Hyundai dealer and have only seen one stick shift 11/12 Sonata.

      Now don't get me wrong, the car I did see I wouldn't have wanted, the shifter felt atrocious and the car was bereft of any features, but still. When my parents bought their Maxima 10 years ago, it was after having looked for 6 months for a stick shift car, they bought the first one they saw without leather color be damned.

      It basically goes back to the old tiger repelling rock idea.

    15. Member firstorbit84's Avatar
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      05-09-2012 03:51 PM #15
      They didn't offer manual with the turbo. If that was an option, I bet they would have sold many more manuals.
      "If your car 'feels like it's on rails,' then you're going too slow."

    16. Member SchnellFowVay's Avatar
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      05-09-2012 03:56 PM #16
      Quote Originally Posted by NashGTI View Post
      It basically goes back to the old tiger repelling rock idea.
      I TCL.

    17. 05-09-2012 04:02 PM #17
      2.0-liter turbocharged engine, with 274 horsepower and 269 lb.-ft of torque and an estimated 34 mpg highway with regular fuel.

      When is VW going to be able to do this?

    18. Senior Member VarianceVQ's Avatar
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      05-09-2012 04:06 PM #18
      Quote Originally Posted by SchnellFowVay View Post
      Homer: Not a bear in sight. The Bear Patrol must be working like a
      charm.
      Lisa: That's spacious reasoning, Dad.
      Homer: Thank you, dear.
      Lisa: By your logic I could claim that this rock keeps tigers away.
      Homer: Oh, how does it work?
      Lisa: It doesn't work.
      Homer: Uh-huh.
      Lisa: It's just a stupid rock.
      Homer: Uh-huh.
      Lisa: But I don't see any tigers around, do you?
      [Homer thinks of this, then pulls out some money]
      Homer: Lisa, I want to buy your rock.
      [Lisa refuses at first, then takes the exchange]

      ---

      That said, nothing stopped anybody from ordering a manual if they wanted it.
      Last edited by VarianceVQ; 05-09-2012 at 04:08 PM.
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    19. Member Live-Wire's Avatar
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      05-09-2012 04:08 PM #19
      Quote Originally Posted by mtb_jeremy View Post
      2.0-liter turbocharged engine, with 274 horsepower and 269 lb.-ft of torque and an estimated 34 mpg highway with regular fuel.

      When is VW going to be able to do this?
      When they suck the life out of the transmission programming too?

      Going on performance numbers, the 211hp/258tq 2.0T in the heavier A4 from Audi doesn't lose any performance ground to the supposedly 270+ hp engines in some other cars... and walks away with usually the best real world fuel economy.

      Go check Fuelly.... the Sonata and Optima sit around 24-25 like every other larger, higher HP car on the planet.

      I'm sick of high EPA numbers, and transmissions that suck the life out of the drive - I'm thrilled VW still programs their transmission to make owners like driving the car, and their cars achieve great real world mileage.

    20. Member caj1's Avatar
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      05-09-2012 04:22 PM #20
      Quote Originally Posted by mtb_jeremy View Post
      2.0-liter turbocharged engine, with 274 horsepower and 269 lb.-ft of torque and an estimated 34 mpg highway with regular fuel.

      When is VW going to be able to do this?
      Last time I checked the old 2008 200hp Passat achieved about the same 0-60 and 1/4 mile times as the 274 HP Sonata

    21. 05-09-2012 04:22 PM #21
      Quote Originally Posted by Live-Wire View Post
      When they suck the life out of the transmission programming too?

      Going on performance numbers, the 211hp/258tq 2.0T in the heavier A4 from Audi doesn't lose any performance ground to the supposedly 270+ hp engines in some other cars... and walks away with usually the best real world fuel economy.

      Go check Fuelly.... the Sonata and Optima sit around 24-25 like every other larger, higher HP car on the planet.

      I'm sick of high EPA numbers, and transmissions that suck the life out of the drive - I'm thrilled VW still programs their transmission to make owners like driving the car, and their cars achieve great real world mileage.
      In fact, the A4 with less hp, and the weight and drag of AWD, is miles faster than the Sonata 2.0T and gets better observed fuel economy.
      Quote Originally Posted by 20aeman View Post
      No, the real enthusiast vehicle would be the RX8. It combines V12 Lamborghini gas mileage with Hyundai Genesis 4cyl. performance.

    22. Member clutchrider's Avatar
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      05-09-2012 04:27 PM #22
      Quote Originally Posted by firstorbit84 View Post
      They didn't offer manual with the turbo. If that was an option, I bet they would have sold many more manuals.
      This.

      Basically one of the BIG reasons I kept my distance from a Kia Optima with the same setup. You could not get a manual in the higher trim/engine levels. Thank you VW.

    23. Senior Member VarianceVQ's Avatar
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      05-09-2012 04:30 PM #23
      Quote Originally Posted by firstorbit84 View Post
      They didn't offer manual with the turbo. If that was an option, I bet they would have sold many more manuals.
      I bet they wouldn't. Subaru just finished killing-off the manual-only Legacy GT because -- you guessed it -- not a whole lot of people bought it.
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    24. Swallow Doretti
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      05-09-2012 04:47 PM #24
      Quote Originally Posted by Hyundai
      At $21,720 for a Sonata GLS with Popular Package, Sonata continues to offer an unmatched value position in the midsize segment.
      It's hard to argue with a basic Sonata's value proposition. The Popular Package includes alloy wheels, heated seats, a power driver's seat and automatic headlights.

      The Sonata is a weird car in that it probably gets less attractive as a purchase when you add options and more power.

    25. Member InfinitiG's Avatar
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      05-09-2012 04:58 PM #25
      Quote Originally Posted by MarkTwo View Post
      So, what you're saying is... Total Recal?


      I don't see it as a big deal that it has a "fake" dual exhaust. As already mentioned - makes for a more attractive symmetrical look.
      I heard that she's making a return in this summer's remake.

      But yeah, lots of cars do this with the dual exhaust. It might not make sense, but it's such a moot point it's not even worth complaining about.
      PSN: Silviatzero
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    26. 05-09-2012 05:21 PM #26
      Quote Originally Posted by caj1 View Post
      An I-4 with dual exhaust? Interesting..




      No offence to you but that statement makes you sound like you've been living under a cave. S2000, Audi TT, Mazda 3, Mazda 6, etc etc etc. Lots of inline-4 cars now a days are sporting dual mufflers. I think it's a good look and worrying about "weight" is stupid unless you're tracking the car or something.
      Sega|Saturn

    27. Member firstorbit84's Avatar
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      05-09-2012 05:27 PM #27
      Quote Originally Posted by VarianceVQ View Post
      I bet they wouldn't. Subaru just finished killing-off the manual-only Legacy GT because -- you guessed it -- not a whole lot of people bought it.
      I didn't say they should have made the turbo model manual only. I just said it should have at least been offered on the turbo and they would have sold more manual sonatas. I test drove the automatic turbo and it was fast but the transmission felt like crap.

      As far as the dual exhaust on a 4 cyl goes, I had a used car salesman swear that the acura tsx had to be a V6 because it had dual exhaust and they only put dual exhaust on v6 and v8 cars. I agreed that it didn't make much sense, except for styling purposes, but we popped the hood and he was definitely wrong
      "If your car 'feels like it's on rails,' then you're going too slow."

    28. Member caj1's Avatar
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      05-09-2012 05:28 PM #28
      Quote Originally Posted by DTMTrini View Post

      No offence to you but that statement makes you sound like you've been living under a cave. S2000, Audi TT, Mazda 3, Mazda 6, etc etc etc. Lots of inline-4 cars now a days are sporting dual mufflers.
      This is a dual exhaust:



      An inline-4 can't do this. Those cars have dual exhaust exits, and in most cases reduce performance unless they are high output I-4s

    29. 05-09-2012 05:39 PM #29
      Quote Originally Posted by NashGTI View Post
      I don't see why people use evidence of not selling them as reasoning that people don't want manual transmissions in cars like this. I work at a Hyundai dealer and have only seen one stick shift 11/12 Sonata.

      Now don't get me wrong, the car I did see I wouldn't have wanted, the shifter felt atrocious and the car was bereft of any features, but still.
      Guess I'll still steer my parents into the next gen accord manual with a 6spd if they choose to upgrade their 2005 4 cylinder lx manual as I know Honda shouldn't screw up the shift feel of a manual tranny and despite all the Honda lost their way statements still have good shifters if the Hyundai manual is that bad. Probably only other car that would probably make sense for their choices would be the Passat with the 5 cylinder, but a possibly shorter over length accord would be better, Passat is too long
      Last edited by Aw614; 05-09-2012 at 05:42 PM.

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      05-09-2012 05:41 PM #30
      Since we are on the topic of dual exhausts, does any reasonably priced street legal car come with proper dual exhaust like shown above or are they all fake like on the Sonata, 3, and 6.

      I can't think of any

    31. 05-09-2012 05:50 PM #31
      Quote Originally Posted by caj1 View Post
      This is a dual exhaust:



      An inline-4 can't do this. Those cars have dual exhaust exits, and in most cases reduce performance unless they are high output I-4s
      I dont recall ever saying "dual exhaust", I said "dual mufflers". What I mean by that is exactly what you just stated, two mufflers exiting from a single cat-back. I know it can reduce performance and the fact of the matter is that an inline engine doesn't need more than one full exhaust, but if you're driving a car as a daily, I don't think it really does much harm, especially with current generation cars.
      Sega|Saturn

    32. Senior Member VarianceVQ's Avatar
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      05-09-2012 05:54 PM #32
      Quote Originally Posted by firstorbit84 View Post
      I didn't say they should have made the turbo model manual only. I just said it should have at least been offered on the turbo and they would have sold more manual sonatas. I test drove the automatic turbo and it was fast but the transmission felt like crap.
      You're missing my point. Offering the manual in the turbo model wouldn't have made a difference. The take rate would've still been miniscule and they still would've axed it.
      Esi ϟ Disi

    33. Member ThreadBomber's Avatar
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      05-09-2012 06:00 PM #33
      Quote Originally Posted by 2.0_Mazda View Post
      Since we are on the topic of dual exhausts, does any reasonably priced street legal car come with proper dual exhaust like shown above or are they all fake like on the Sonata, 3, and 6.

      I can't think of any
      V8 Mustangs

      And have since the mid 80's.
      Teefy Buna

      Quote Originally Posted by Sump View Post
      I'm sure a lot of these guys went home after the carwash and played a little hans solo.

    34. Member 2.0T_Convert's Avatar
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      05-09-2012 06:22 PM #34
      Quote Originally Posted by caj1 View Post
      An inline-4 can't do this. Those cars have dual exhaust exits, and in most cases reduce performance unless they are high output I-4s
      The Sonata SE proves you wrong.
      Sent from my tablet while sipping weak drinks over fancy brunch with a view

    35. Senior Member J-Tim's Avatar
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      05-09-2012 06:24 PM #35
      Quote Originally Posted by VarianceVQ View Post
      Because symmetry is attractive. Assuming you're a straight male (or gay woman): Don't you prefer your women (and yourself) to have two breasts? Don't you prefer them to be the same size? I trust this solves the mystery.
      When it comes to cars however, the only reason for putting a set up like that is to make your otherwise plebeian car look "sporty". If they were really worried about keeping the rear clean, they'd have a single exhaust tackled underneath the bumper and you wouldn't even see it.

      Marketing at its worst.
      The gloves are off, the wisdom teeth are out
      What you on about ?

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