Timing Belt DIY

[jmcgill]

I am going to have to replace the timing belt in my 1989 Golf, but I find that the link to the DIY here is not working. Does anyone have a link to a DIY that I could use?

Thanks,

Joe

[Glegor]

I am going to have to replace the timing belt in my 1989 Golf, but I find that the link to the DIY here is not working. Does anyone have a link to a DIY that I could use?

Thanks,

Joe

only tip you need:

is to get a Bentley factory service manual for your car...

thats the ONLY way to go. the bentley covers EVERYTHING..

timing belt on a 8v vw is cake, its less than an hour job if you are good at it..

[jmcgill]

I guess I'll have to wait for a week while I search for a Bentley then. Also, what parts are commonly replaced when you do the timing belt?

Thanks.

[ps2375]

Belt and roller. Might be a good time to do the V-belt(s) also.

[jmcgill]

Its actually not the condition of the belt I'm so much worried about. I've got a fairly significant oil leak from that side of the motor which has to be one of those gaskets/seals you're supposed to change when you do the Timing belt.

[Fat Rabbit]

You might as well renew the idler, timing belt, seals and V-belts while you are doing the job. There are three front seals one for the camshaft, one for the intermediate shaft and one for the crank shaft. IIRC they are all the same PN. If you do the cam you will want to renew the cylinder head cover gasket too. FR

[ps2375]

Its actually not the condition of the belt I'm so much worried about. I've got a fairly significant oil leak from that side of the motor which has to be one of those gaskets/seals you're supposed to change when you do the Timing belt.

In your first post, this wasn't mentioned. As FR said, the seals are all the same, the cam and IM are easy to do, the crank seal will require a bit more work and that would be a good time to replace the sprocket (as the key on them can be a weak point) and the bolt for it is a stretch bolt that should not be reused.

[jmcgill]

I have a Bentley in the mail right now, so I'll have proper instructions on how to do it.

Is there a particular trick to getting those old seals out?

I'd hate to damage anything trying to remove them.

Of course, with my luck, it'll be a head gasket leaking and I'll be forced to do that job too, LOL!

[jmcgill]

Is the crankshaft sprocket the one that autohausaz lists as the one that needs the 14mm bolt? Is that bolt the "stretch" bolt you mention?

[ps2375]

Is the crankshaft sprocket the one that autohausaz lists as the one that needs the 14mm bolt? Is that bolt the "stretch" bolt you mention?

yes.

[Glegor]

I have a Bentley in the mail right now, so I'll have proper instructions on how to do it.

Is there a particular trick to getting those old seals out?

I'd hate to damage anything trying to remove them.

Of course, with my luck, it'll be a head gasket leaking and I'll be forced to do that job too, LOL!

thank you for taking my advise and buying a bentley, rather than doing like the other vortexers, and get all pissed when we tell you to get a bentley

"i got a haynes/chilton manual, i dont need an expensive bentley!"

open your eyes, a haynes/chilton for a VW is like letting a blind/deaf guy fix your noisy lifters!

most of the time tho, people get PISSED when you tell them to get a bentley.. but, the bentley is the FACTORY service manual. it is the most IN DEPTH manual available for these cars..

it really is worth the money, to have one.. they are PRICELESS if you work on your car much!

[ziddey]

The seal for the crank is pressed into a removable carrier. It's possible that the carrier seal (paper cutout) is leaking as well. AutohausAZ sells that as well. You'd need to remove the carrier bolts as well as a few oil pan bolts. Do be extremely careful, since the carrier is aluminum. The ****ing thing strips so easily. I put together a motor just to strip one of the rear carrier threads right before it had to go in the car. Needless to say, it leaks.

Removing the carrier makes changing that seal a lot easier (assuming you don't have a nice tool to pull it otherwise).

[jmcgill]

I have had 3 beetles, a Karmann Ghia and a1985 golf diesel. Ive had a Bentley for all of them. Its the only useful manual for a VW with he possible exception of Wilson's masterwork on rebuilding aircooled engines and Muir's book for some good quick repairs.

What I fear is that I don't have all the tools I need. Looks like there is some kind of claw tool for doing the timing belt tensioner. I guess there is some kind of hook to get those seals out.

[WaterWheels]

Yes some repairs require special tools. Some say you “should use” special tool # this or that to do the work, but often just a little thinking can get the job done. Special tools are sometimes just an easy way around the task at hand, often requested from mechanics to tool companies and then later sold to the general public. In the case of doing a timing belt, that spanner is nice but you can work around it, like bending and using a common diner fork. A timing belt can be done with what one would call common tools or a general tool box assortment. Seals can be popped out without a seal puller and installed with a soft touch and a hammer.

There is no arguements that the Robert Bentley repair manual is a very good book and maybe worth the price. I have always thought it was priced a little too high. But also lets get something straight while the box has already been opened. You do not have to have a Bentley if you are at least a little mechanically inclined. The Bentley is not a factory manual. Yes some VW dealers are allowed, either by VW or by Robert Bentley Publiching, to sell them, but they are not what the mechanics use to repair VW cars. Quote from the “Bible” itself: “Volkswagen has not reviewed and does not vouch for the accuracy of the technical specifications and procedures described in this manual”. I do suggest to people to buy a “good” repair manual, but it does not have to be a Bentley anymore than you have to purchase a Porsche to own a car that gets you from point A to point B.

[Glegor]

Yes some repairs require special tools. Some say you “should use” special tool # this or that to do the work, but often just a little thinking can get the job done. Special tools are sometimes just an easy way around the task at hand, often requested from mechanics to tool companies and then later sold to the general public. In the case of doing a timing belt, that spanner is nice but you can work around it, like bending and using a common diner fork. A timing belt can be done with what one would call common tools or a general tool box assortment. Seals can be popped out without a seal puller and installed with a soft touch and a hammer.

There is no arguements that the Robert Bentley repair manual is a very good book and maybe worth the price. I have always thought it was priced a little too high. But also lets get something straight while the box has already been opened. You do not have to have a Bentley if you are at least a little mechanically inclined. The Bentley is not a factory manual. Yes some VW dealers are allowed, either by VW or by Robert Bentley Publiching, to sell them, but they are not what the mechanics use to repair VW cars. Quote from the “Bible” itself: “Volkswagen has not reviewed and does not vouch for the accuracy of the technical specifications and procedures described in this manual”. I do suggest to people to buy a “good” repair manual, but it does not have to be a Bentley anymore than you have to purchase a Porsche to own a car that gets you from point A to point B.

the people that are mechanically inclined, take the car apart, and figure it out as they go, if they dont have a manual.. they dont get on vortex and ask for a DIY.. thats why i suggested a bentley manual.

the first time i ever did a VW timing belt, was on a diesel, and it was EASY, so i didnt even use a manual when i did my first gasser timing belt..

[ziddey]

For what it's worth, I've used bent needle nose pliers to tighten the tensioner, but really, using any tool seems to make the belt too tight. The past few 8v's I've done, I've always just used my hand to pull it tight and tighten it up. Even then, I've had the belt on too tight before.

[jmcgill]

For what it's worth, I always planned to get a Bentley manual. In fact, it arrived yesterday.

I only asked for the DIY, because I thought that some kind soul had taken the time while doing the procedure to provide detailed pictures of the area. When I was working on my old BMW e28 there were some really good DIYs that they had made for doing important stuff like the timing belt. That's the only reason I asked. Not to be lazy or complain or anything like that. I'm just a bit anal about things as important as the timing belt, and sometimes the pictures in Bentley are a bit technical and don't give you the actual "viewpoint" of the amateur mechanic.

Best case scenario, my oil leak is one of the three "seals" and I don't have to start taking housings and oil pans off....because that is a situation I don't want to be in....wife breathing down my neck to get the car out of the garage, etc.

[Jesse-B]

Tell your wife to chill! Much worse things you could be doing with your time.

[jmcgill]

LOL! She'd react very kindly to that.

[Glegor]

For what it's worth, I've used bent needle nose pliers to tighten the tensioner, but really, using any tool seems to make the belt too tight. The past few 8v's I've done, I've always just used my hand to pull it tight and tighten it up. Even then, I've had the belt on too tight before.

i tighten the tensioner BY HAND.. that way you CAN NOT over tighten the timing belt, no matter how hard you try..

yes, i rotate the tensioner (BY HAND) CW until the belt is tight, rotate the engine 2x, then check tension again..

[WaterWheels]

. . . yes, i rotate the tensioner (BY HAND) CCW until the belt is tight, . . .

Clowkwise would be the correct direction (CW). Counter Clockwise (CCW) will work and I have seen engines done this way but it often leads to the belt rubbing.

[Glegor]

Clowkwise would be the correct direction (CW). Counter Clockwise (CCW) will work and I have seen engines done this way but it often leads to the belt rubbing.

sorry, my bad, i DID mean CW! lol...

[WaterWheels]

You bad what?

[threecaster]

I just got through changing my head gasket. Old timing belt back on, old tensioner back on...

Damn she runs good, but with a strange whine, like a pump or something, but new...

30 minutes later she pops the timing belt.

Pulled her home and figured out A) The tensioner was less than stellar. B) The belt will install and the engine will run fine if you tighen the tensioner CCW. However, if you rotate the thing CCW far enough in order to install the shroud (withOUT carving on it with a pocket knife ) you have almost certainly tightened the belt much too much.

I installed a new tensioner (with CW install) and she's a happy car!

Just use some same diameter nails as the holes in the tensioner, use a box 10mm wrench (thumb to fingertip length) to adjust and tighten, all while holding the 15mm (or 17mm) wrench on the almost tight nut to tighten.

Bentley says 33 ft lbs torque on the nut (if memory serves...)

8V belt can be twisted along the long length at most 90 deg, so not so terribly tight.

My baby's running like a dream now.

Now I just have to get my exahust doughut changed, or sealed, or ssssssssomething....

[Glegor]

You bad what?

it means "MY F*CKING MISTAKE"

i made a mistake, im sorry..

oh yea, thats right, you dont make mistakes, or even know what they are.

[Glegor]

I just got through changing my head gasket. Old timing belt back on, old tensioner back on...

Damn she runs good, but with a strange whine, like a pump or something, but new...

30 minutes later she pops the timing belt.

Pulled her home and figured out A) The tensioner was less than stellar. B) The belt will install and the engine will run fine if you tighen the tensioner CCW. However, if you rotate the thing CCW far enough in order to install the shroud (withOUT carving on it with a pocket knife ) you have almost certainly tightened the belt much too much.

I installed a new tensioner (with CW install) and she's a happy car!

Just use some same diameter nails as the holes in the tensioner, use a box 10mm wrench (thumb to fingertip length) to adjust and tighten, all while holding the 15mm (or 17mm) wrench on the almost tight nut to tighten.

Bentley says 33 ft lbs torque on the nut (if memory serves...)

8V belt can be twisted along the long length at most 90 deg, so not so terribly tight.

My baby's running like a dream now.

Now I just have to get my exahust doughut changed, or sealed, or ssssssssomething....

should have followed our advise, and tightened the belt by hand, not with tools.. its SUPER EASY to get the belt too tight when using ANY TOOL.. the extra leverage from the tool gives a false sense of tension.. it seems like its not too tight, but it probably is. like Ziddey mentioned, you CAN even over tighten these belts by hand if you try hard enough..

[WaterWheels]

it means "MY F*CKING MISTAKE"

i made a mistake, im sorry..

oh yea, thats right, you dont make mistakes . . .

Oh yes, I make mistakes and I make them here often, just like the one I made above. I did the nasty, I assumed. I assumed you could answer a simple question in an intelligent educated maner, my mistake. If "my bad" means that you made a mistake in modern English then I guess that's fine, yet another rung down the English langauge ladder. I would skip that one during an important job interview, except of course unless it's at Mc Donalds or Burger King or something. So I guess I should be the one saying their sorry, I'm sorry I asked. So then it would go "My bad I asked"? Sounds doof to me but hey if that's what's "cool", go with it.

Oh, and he (threecaster) didn't get any advice from anyone as he just jumped in to tell a little story. His car is running fine he states and just shared what happened to him with everyone else. I'll share too I guess. Ever since owning my 88 GTi 16v (back in 87) I have used the little tool for tensioning the timing belt. Yep, you can crank on it too much, just like about everything that has to be tightened, but it does make life just a tiny bit eaiser. If you set the tension too tight you back it off a little until it stops whining, doesn't get much simplier really. I have and use the water pump pulley tool also and a crankshaft stop and piston ring pliers and shifter adjusting gauge and and and. Almost everything can be worked on without these tools if one cares to. The tool is not the problem if you make things too tight, it's the operator.