Here's the other side of the kitchen wall. Small dining area. Entry to the kitchen on right (not pictured)
I'm pretty sure we'll rip these two smaller dividing walls out to great one great room.
crazy blonde kid kept following me
Bought another home a couple weeks back. Did some work Sunday.
Starting from the ground up. I've eliminated the small laundry room, but will be using a stacked washer/dryer combo and the water heater has been removed (converted to a natural gas exterior tank less system). I'd like to create a "feeling" of separation for the washer/dryer and entry way area/mud room (off the back porch) without putting up a solid wall, as the kitchen is too damn small for this. Clean slate on the rest.
Yes the **** windows are being replaced. Some of the smaller windows in the old laundry room may be filled in as well. As of right now there are 8 windows in the room with 3 different size variations so I've got to do something with that.
Last edited by mbuxton; 10-18-2012 at 10:05 AM.
Some nice hardwood floors there.
Nice project, love the DeWalt cordless sawzall.
What's up w/ the exterior siding? Is it going to be a major issue to eliminate/move windows and doors?
It would be nice to see a dimensioned floor plan. If you need to leave the laundry appliances in the area, here's what I'd probably do (assuming you have no issues w/ the exterior siding). I couldn't figure out where you were getting the supply for the washer and dryer from.
I would take all the windows out of the old mud/laundry room, and close them up. The next part, you can go 2 different ways on. You could move the door to where the window over the old dryer vent is, and build a closet to house the washer and dryer along the wall that had the 3 windows. You could place the refrigerator to the right of the laundry closet.
The other option is to leave the door in its current location (although I'd change it to a LH in-swing) and move the laundry closet closer to the double windows in the other room. That leaves the issue as to where to put the refrigerator. Did you take down the rest of the wall, on the other side of the opening, where the refrigerator is?
Can the doorway next to the long run of cabinets be closed or shifted farther away from the cabinet run? Is it possible to build a small dog house / vestibule where the mudroom door is, or is that getting into too much work? Also, do you have a basement under the mud / laundry room?
Get me a dimensioned floor plan w/ window and door locations, and I can give you some more concrete input.
Awesome info there, thank you. I've been at a conference in Vegas, heading home today then I'll chime in with more info. I will say the current plan does involve closing up the mud room windows, but I'd prefer not to move the door which leads onto a deck. More pics and info to come.
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Alright so here's what a Lowes rep put together for me over the weekend...
I was just at Lowe's and Home Depot pricing my kitchen from my thread.
I have roughly the same amount of cabinets and the cheapest Lowe's could do on Kraftmaid was around $6000. I only had 2 of those wall utility cabinets ~$700 each. There were some discounts and I think the price came out to be around $4500 including tax and delivery.
Home Depot was able to beat Lowe's by ~$1000 for the same type (not same brand) of cabinet. Both places I had specified particle board boxes. I am not staying in my house more than another few months so Plywood boxes were of no appeal to me.
I have been online at numerous RTA websites and they are only beating Home Depot's price by a few hundred and then I would have to assemble 17 cabinets...no thanks.
I looked at that design. 2 small base cabinets, 2 corner cabinets, 1 sink base, 6 upper cabinets, a refrigerator cabinet (I assume w/ end panels), and 3 12" deep utility cabinets. That's not that many cabinets. You should be able to get some decent units, w/ plywood boxes and a nice door design for <$10k. Believe it or not, you'll get a good chunk of your investment back on a nice kitchen, when you go to sell the place. Throw a cheap kitchen in there, and most people will realize that you put in the cheapest thing that you could get, because you were selling it.
I looked at the design. Based on the pictures, I assume it's got 9' ceilings. It also looks like they've got you putting a wall back, where you took the one w/ the door down. That's going to make the kitchen feel even smaller than it does now. You'll get a little more counter space w/ the cabinets on the new wall, but there's going to be <5' (closer to 4' 7") between the legs of the 'U'. You'll never get 2 people working in there w/o them bumping into each other.
The 3042 wall cabinets on either side of the sink are not what I would choose. I'd take out the double window over the sink, replace it w/ a single, and get diagonal corner wall cabinets that would fit in both corners, if you're staying w/ that layout. Much more useful, and would give you the ability to put a valance between them, over the sink.
If you don't want to move the door that goes to the deck, I'd still consider changing it to a LH in-swing. That gives you the ability to put a storm/screen door on the outside. I'd probably not put up the new wall they show, and put the dishwasher to the right of the sink. You could still get another 30" base to the right of the dishwasher, and leave yourself ~6" to the door. Go w/ a 24" base, and you could fit a small waste can at the end, before the door. You'd give up ~39" of wall cabinets, but gain at least 9" of base cabinet, and you'd get rid of a corner base cabinet (I HATE them!). Also, having the counter fairly close to the door like that gives you a place to set things down when you come in the door (don't know if that door is a primary entry door or not).
One last comment about the Lowe's design, and adding that wall back. If you're on a slab, or have no access below the kitchen and mud room, that's probably the only way you can get the supply and drain to the washer, and you'll probably still need to vent the dryer through the wall where it currently is.
On the wall w/ the pantry cabinets, is that 11" bump-out already there?
I didn't like the Lowes design either. The wall placement was poor and the interior of the U is too small, as you said. Here's the final design (minus one thing I'll mention in a moment).
This design still gives the additional counter space, but creates a larger U and provides a small bar and prep area. It separates the mud room without enclosing it as well. I am thinking of changing the cabinetry on the right wall though. I don't need the floor to ceiling models and will probably do elevated small cabinets separated by a nice wine rack. Something to that effect anyway, haven't really discussed this with anyone yet.
Certainly gives you more counter space, and makes the 'U' bigger, but here are a couple of observations. No real room for storage in the laundry closet. And more importantly (again, this assumes they use the back door as a primary entry / exit door. That's a LONG walk around to get to the kitchen. There's also a ton of wasted space between the 3-drawer base and the other two cabinets in the island.
As I said, I'd probably extend the counter to the door, and build the laundry closet on the outside wall where you're taking out those windows. With an open counter inside the door, you don't have to push it that far into the room (maybe 4'6" - 5' from the door). And the nice thing is that you could put a coat rack on it, facing the door. Plus it gives you the ability to see the back door from the kitchen (mom's like that). You'll end up w/ a standard 10x10 L-shaped kitchen. As far as the wall of storage cabinets, I installed a very similar setup to that last year. Full-height pantry cabinets on each end, w/ a standard height, 12" deep base, with a matching upper. Wine racks and hanging glass rack in there as well. Looked great.
I would still change out the window over the sink. That long wall cabinet going into the corner is only going to be about half useful. Reaching all the way to the corner from the inside corner of the base cabinets is a LONG reach. I'd also make the laundry closet over-sized, so that you can store some cleaning stuff (broom, mop, etc.) in there, as well as a place for laundry stuff, and possibly some storage. How long is that wall?
My dad & I originally planned something similar to what you're describing, with a laundry closet on the back wall. That would mean some sort of divider wall separating the nook area instead of the wall as planned to separate out the mudroom area. I don't know how I feel about walking in the rear door and having the laundry in front of me and the kitchen to my right. Then again, you have a good point about walking around the bar to get outside; although, the rear door is not a frequently used door (unless grilling on the back deck). SO, bottom line is I don't know!
As far as the 'out and up' look, yes, that's a somewhat common technique in kitchen design. I have seen it a lot w/ inside corners, and the end cabinets in a run. You also see it w/ decorative range hood covers. It really doesn't work the way you've shown it w/ the refrigerator cabinet. A couple of things I found when I was designing and selling kitchens. 1) Use end panels for refrigerators. Having an exposed refrigerator side, adjacent to a counter, is just a bad design. Things fall in the gap behind the refrigerator, and it is just an unfinished look. 2) Use at least a 24" deep cabinet above the refrigerator. Shallower cabinets usually lead to things getting placed on top of the refrigerator, in front of the cabinet doors, rendering the cabinet pretty much useless. Also, I imagine if you threw some crown moulding on top of the cabinets, the stepped-up cabinet over the range wouldn't look as awkward.
And just a side note, it looks like you've done this w/ 30" high wall cabinets, not the 42" ones the OP is considering, since the room has 9' ceilings.
Maybe you should stick to smoking pot and leave designing people's homes to those that actually understand what is involved.
That's my dad in the greenish shirt doing all the work and my step-dad standing around watching him but of course I'm the one just snapping pics. I had my fun underneath the house digging out little grooves for the plumber and I to run new piping later this week.
I can't believe the absolute **** job of a "repair" that was done in picture #5. No clue why concrete was even poured, but there was major damage all around that area. The entire floor is rock solid now though.
As far as the new kitchen design submitted by Crob, I'm 50/50 on it. Really hate the fridge by the doorway leading into the dining room (which will be a study), plus it would require moving the doorway anyway. But I do love the closet pantry, wishI could have something similar. The final design I put up the other day is still my favorite and seems more "planned" as opposed to Crob's perimeter, open design.
Crob's design is certainly workable, but is the extra cost worth it?
I forgot to comment on the 36" wall cabinets w/ a 9' ceiling. That leaves 18" between the cabinets and the ceiling. That's a lot of dead space. I found the primary use for 36" wall cabinets to be in rooms w/ 8' ceilings, and no soffits, where you want to seal the crown moulding to the ceiling.
Here's the final design.
Here's the new cabinetry replacing the pantry option from the first page.
Here's the shot looking in from the back door. The shelf will be filled in.
Here's a couple more floor demolition shots for the hell of it.
And here is how it currently sits. Filling in the windows in the original mud room sometime this holiday weekend.
Since there's no door next to that built-in, why not put the pantry and laundry over there? Take out the one window and you should be good to go. Also, for the bar area, have you considered custom depth cabinets? If you have 18" from the wall to the outside edge of the door casing, maybe something like a 16" deep cabinet? That would give you 17" on the counter top, and make the space a little more useable. I still think that curled back section is going to make that kitchen feel small, not to mention walking all the way around to get to the laundry, and no storage space in the laundry area is tough.
I'm not too concerned with the laundry area being totally removed from all else, and I would prefer it at/near the entry mudroom area. I will build some shelving there somewhere to accommodate some laundry essentials, but I can't imagine needing a whole lot of room.
And since that's the back yard, that means your daughter will be going in and out of the kitchen door. I think it will suck not being able to see that door if you're working in the kitchen. You won't be able to quickly glance over and see who's there. With the open 'L' design, you're 4-5 steps from the back door, when you're at the sink. With the curled island, you're at least a dozen. Not a good thing if, God forbid, you or your wife have get to the back yard quickly because your daughter may be hurt.
Is there no where else in the house that you could locate the laundry?
Another thing that the open 'L' gives you, is the ability to put a dinette table in the general area of the diagonal cabinet in the island. You and your wife could sit there having coffee, watching your daughter playing in the back yard.
A little late to bring another option to the table, but here's what I would look into-
It's not the prettiest thing to look at the washer/dryer from the door, but I think it gives you the best flow through the space. Not sure on the dimensions to the double windows in the eating area, but it looks like it would work.
Chrome | Polishing | Powder Coating | Plating | BALLER STATUS
^^^ That works, and is pretty much what I had in mind, minus the island. But there's probably enough room to get one in. It sure makes staging the stuff going into the fridge easier. I'd still look at either custom depth bases, or pull the 12" ones 3" off the wall, for the area on the right side. You will be amazed at how much more useful that counter space will be w/ an extra 3".
I certainly wouldn't let a couple of partitions stop me from switching to a design I liked better. Especially at that stage.Originally Posted by mbuxton
I'm curious as to why you didn't bust up that old concrete floor beforehand. Is it a slab w/ no crawl space under it? What's the finished floor going to be? It looks like you have skinned the whole space (except the concrete) w/ Hardi-backer. If you're going to tile (I assume that's why you put Hardi-backer down), it may be easier to use something like Dash-Patch or other self-leveler to transition to the concrete, rather than trying to chisel it out. I'm also curious as to why you used 2x4 to fir the ceiling down rather than something like hat channel? I assume you're going to sheet rock the ceiling.