What's the View Here on Catless Downpipes/Cat Deletes?

[fireside]

My Mustang GT has a catless X. What now

[WeeTallDidTiming]

my cars previous owner installed a 3" divorced waste gate catless downpipe and exhaust. no resonator just a muffler.

he was having trouble passing state inspection because a visible cat must be present to pass. even though we dont have emissions in my county, emissions and state inspection are separate. some counties in pa dont have emissions and some do but all must pass pa state safety inspection.

to pass he installed a 3" hi flow race cat BUT the problem is he had the exhaust shop install it AFTER the down stream o2 sensor.
so the cat is doing absolutely nothing except adding un needed back pressure.
the downstream o2 is getting a reading as if the car was catless anyway...

my solution is going to be this. itll be "catless" and run well with my tune and also pass visual state inspection.

http://www.frozenboost.com/product_i...c9e3ea16176efc

i found out about the bad 02 readings when i decided one day to flash my car back to stg 1 map and i instantly got a CEL for un calibrated 02

p.s. my car is an 04 sti and it has a accessport stg 2 tune for catless. and i tweaked it a little for my 2mm bigger maf housing and intake.

i cant speak for everyone else but im pretty sure catless subarus have no problem passing emissions/smog tests in other counties in pa

[mikes96GTI]

Like I said in another thread, modern cats are MUCH more efficient then the 70's and 80's model that gave cats a bad name. A high flow cat has no distinguishable difference over a straight pipe. The do clean emissions, thats proven.

However, I think the eco nuts, liberals, and global warming fruit cakes that deny that the earth was warm, got covered in ice, then melted away LONG before man was around with cars and industrial plants have gotten WAY out of hand. You want to drive an electric car, a hybrid, whatever? Good for you. I do not. If i want to drive a car that gets 8MPG and burn my share of gas before India and China (who couldn't care less about the environment) do, I will. I'm telling you boys, we are in another golden age of the car right now. Rampant Muscle car war, trucks with tons of power and decent mileage, fun to drive small cars, get your fill now. I feel we are on the brink of another Malaise era of auto's in the next decade. I got a nice project car lined up, and hopefully in a few months, I will be dumping my BMW for a 392 Challenger before gas guzzling, V8 powered cars are officially outlawed.

[WeeTallDidTiming]

A high flow cat has no distinguishable difference over a straight pipe. The do clean emissions, thats proven.

i agree, but considering my downstream o2 sensor is reading as if a cat isn't even present anyway i see the point in having the cat on there especially because my tune is for catless anyway.
and since my cat was installed after the downstream o2 its emissions are as bad as if the cat was not present, and since its after the downstream o2 its pretty far down my exhaust and probably not even heating up properly.
if the high flow cat was installed properly before the downstream o2 i wouldn't touch it. it would stay on the car.

[AggvGtivr6]

I think the eco nuts, liberals, and global warming fruit cakes that deny that the earth was warm, got covered in ice, then melted away LONG before man was around with cars and industrial plants have gotten WAY out of hand. You want to drive an electric car, a hybrid, whatever? Good for you. I do not. If i want to drive a car that gets 8MPG and burn my share of gas before India and China (who couldn't care less about the environment) do, I will. I'm telling you boys, we are in another golden age of the car right now. Rampant Muscle car war, trucks with tons of power and decent mileage, fun to drive small cars, get your fill now.

It's very rare i agree with anything ppl post in this forum, but that's spot on

[SGLoki]

There is no HARM in having a high flow cat, if it helps make the air easier to breath (regardless of your environmental views, you'd be an idiot to try to refute smog and health effects) why not run one?

If it's a track car, I could see why you'd go catless. If you drive it on the street, getting 2-5 hp is hardly worth the delete, may as well get a high flow, then recycle the old one for 1/2 the cost of the new one if you really want that HP.

[302W]

However, I think the eco nuts, liberals, and global warming fruit cakes that deny that the earth was warm, got covered in ice, then melted away LONG before man was around with cars and industrial plants have gotten WAY out of hand.

I think it's silly to declare with an ounce of certainty that global warming does or does not exist. I'm certainly not going to listen to what some Joe Schmo, politician, or pundit has to say about it. Hell, scientists that may actually know what they're talking about don't seem to be in agreement about it.

[vasillalov]

If you drive it on the street, getting 2-5 hp is hardly worth the delete, ....

How many times do we have to drill into you? It's not 2-5 hp. A LOT more than that!

On BMW N54 engine the catless downpipes will give you easy 40-60 whp and 40-50 wtq with proper tuning.

[Jrod511]

For a car that sees track use ONLY as a competition car I am okay with cat deletes. For a car that is used at occasional HPDE or the auto-x or drag strip but is still a registered car for the streets, I think it is stupid to take the cats off. For a street car I think it is stupid to take the cats off.

[Jrod511]

It was cheaper not to buy an aftermarket exhaust without one. Do I feel bad sometimes? Sure. Do I lose sleep? No.

Why? Because I would bet a whole lot that half the righteous folk in this dumbass thread don't give a hoot about the environment. I bet you smoke, litter and don't even recycle. So unless you're effin Captain Planet then piss off.

Spoken like a true Strong Islander.

Also, try this http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/index.html

[jepva]

How many times do we have to drill into you? It's not 2-5 hp. A LOT more than that!

Well the N54 is a unique case with the increase being so high, but yes on average the gains are certainly well above 5hp. I'd say 20 or so is around the average.

[Jrod511]

Well the N54 is a unique case with the increase being so high, but yes on average the gains are certainly well above 5hp. I'd say 20 or so is around the average.

Even if it is 20 HP, it's really not usable safely on the street unless you drive like a punk kid on a GSXR. I don't see the point in voiding a factory emissions warranty and breaking the law because you get to floor it on the on ramp once in awhile.

[jepva]

Even if it is 20 HP, it's really not usable safely on the street unless you drive like a punk kid on a GSXR. I don't see the point in voiding a factory emissions warranty and breaking the law because you get to floor it on the on ramp once in awhile.

Actually, in my car, on the VQ37, it adds a good 20lb-ft of torque across the whole range, so low end drive-ability is actually increased.

[Jrod511]

Actually, in my car, on the VQ37, it adds a good 20lb-ft of torque across the whole range, so low end drive-ability is actually increased.

I wasn't aware brand new Infiniti G37's suffered from poor driving characteristics at legal speeds. Sounds like a good reason to void a warranty on a $40K car and disregard the law/civic responsibility. Learn something new everyday.

Look, you could tell me it added 50 HP, or 100 HP and I'd still not be swayed. This thread asked for viewpoints and I think on cars that are registered for road use and/or also have the benefit of a warranty the emissions systems should be left as designed. The microscopic benefit is outweighed by the need to eventually resell that car (that you have now paid extra money to modify) and also the fact that cars without cats emit measurably higher emissions (therefore displaying a selfish attitude that you can do whatever you please and pick and choose what laws apply to you).

It's cheaper and easier to lie on your tax returns; do you do that?

[jepva]

I wasn't aware brand new Infiniti G37's suffered from poor driving characteristics at legal speeds. Sounds like a good reason to void a warranty on a $40K car and disregard the law/civic responsibility. Learn something new everyday.

Look, you could tell me it added 50 HP, or 100 HP and I'd still not be swayed. This thread asked for viewpoints and I think on cars that are registered for road use and/or also have the benefit of a warranty the emissions systems should be left as designed. The microscopic benefit is outweighed by the need to eventually resell that car (that you have now paid extra money to modify) and also the fact that cars without cats emit measurably higher emissions (therefore displaying a selfish attitude that you can do whatever you please and pick and choose what laws apply to you).

It's cheaper and easier to lie on your tax returns; do you do that?

Viewpoint noted.

[Run L1ke H3LL]

The way I see it. People spend their entire lives smoking cigarettes and polluting the air. How is that any different from driving without a Cat?

[Jrod511]

The way I see it. People spend their entire lives smoking cigarettes and polluting the air. How is that any different from driving without a Cat?

Smoking is legal, removing the cat from your car isn't. Go write your Congressman a letter.

[Run L1ke H3LL]

Smoking is legal, removing the cat from your car isn't. Go write your Congressman a letter.

What a horrendous rebuttal.

You try to make it sound like you're trying to protect the environment, but then it immediately becomes about following laws? Nice try.

[mookieblaylock]

The way I see it. People spend their entire lives smoking cigarettes and polluting the air. How is that any different from driving without a Cat?

pulling the cat is kind of sleazy and way more pollution than cigarettes, not that it matters as the planet is screwed every which way

[The Chemist]

I do wonder why people in here are talking about global warming when the discussion is about catalytic converters - which have NOTHING to do with climate-change causing emissions.

[AggvGtivr6]

I do wonder why people in here are talking about global warming when the discussion is about catalytic converters - which have NOTHING to do with climate-change causing emissions.

but but, the liberals say cars are evil and we should all drive hybrids to save the planet...

[AKADriver]

I think it's silly to declare with an ounce of certainty that global warming does or does not exist. I'm certainly not going to listen to what some Joe Schmo, politician, or pundit has to say about it. Hell, scientists that may actually know what they're talking about don't seem to be in agreement about it.

We can prove, beyond reasonable doubt, that it is happening, using atmospheric data. The only case NOT to "believe in" global warming is if you listen to conservative american politicians.

However, it has nothing at all to do with catalysts.

[Run L1ke H3LL]

We can prove, beyond reasonable doubt, that it is happening, using atmospheric data. The only case NOT to "believe in" global warming is if you listen to conservative american politicians.

However, it has nothing at all to do with catalysts.

We can prove, beyond reasonable doubt, that it is not happening, using atmospheric data. The only case TO "believe in" global warming is if you listen to liberal american politicians.

[71DubBugBug]

Does anyone know the cell count in magna flow high flow cats?


Also as mentioned other than getting hollow cats, one can also run 200 or 100 cell cats.

[BassNotes]

We can prove, beyond reasonable doubt, that it is not happening, using atmospheric data. The only case TO "believe in" global warming is if you listen to liberal american politicians.

It's not happening! It's not. Look at the facts, not what the scientists and their liberal american politician friends say. I'll bet nobody's even talking about it outside Amerca. Deleting your cat is no worse than if your car was farting all the time.

[Run L1ke H3LL]

It's not happening! It's not. Look at the facts, not what the scientists and their liberal american politician friends say. I'll bet nobody's even talking about it outside Amerca. Deleting your cat is no worse than if your car was farting all the time.

True story.

[302W]

We can prove, beyond reasonable doubt, that it is happening, using atmospheric data. The only case NOT to "believe in" global warming is if you listen to conservative american politicians.

However, it has nothing at all to do with catalysts.

We can prove, beyond reasonable doubt, that it is not happening, using atmospheric data. The only case TO "believe in" global warming is if you listen to liberal american politicians.

It's not happening! It's not. Look at the facts, not what the scientists and their liberal american politician friends say. I'll bet nobody's even talking about it outside Amerca. Deleting your cat is no worse than if your car was farting all the time.

Science and politics don't mix. Politicians and loudmouth pundits will manipulate any fact to serve their respective cause. Keep arguing though, like monkeys ****ing a football..

[Jrod511]

What a horrendous rebuttal.

You try to make it sound like you're trying to protect the environment, but then it immediately becomes about following laws? Nice try.

My whole point from the beginning was that it is about following laws and not leaving it up to toughboy junior street racers like you to decide what laws apply to them and which don't. I don't think I ever said anything about the environment. I don't expect kids with kiddie cars racing around on public roads to even comprehend this viewpoint.

[Jrod511]

It's not happening! It's not. Look at the facts, not what the scientists and their liberal american politician friends say. I'll bet nobody's even talking about it outside Amerca. Deleting your cat is no worse than if your car was farting all the time.

So explain to me why cars have catalytic converters if they aren't necessary as pollution controls? Oh, that's right, they ARE pollution controls that are federally mandated; it's just that selfish people think they can pick and choose which laws to follow and when the fact that they are willingly breaking the law for their momentary fun they immediately throw politics into it; a nice attempt to deflect that they are just acting like selfish members of society.

[Run L1ke H3LL]

My whole point from the beginning was that it is about following laws and not leaving it up to toughboy junior street racers like you to decide what laws apply to them and which don't. I don't think I ever said anything about the environment. I don't expect kids with kiddie cars racing around on public roads to even comprehend this viewpoint.

What are you going on about? Seriously kiddie cars and public street racing? You're out of your mind.

[Jrod511]

What are you going on about? Seriously kiddie cars and public street racing? You're out of your mind.

It seems like only the junior street racing crowd, the ones with modified kiddie cars (sorry, a 2002 GTI is a kiddie car, not a real adults car anymore) are the ones that are OK breaking laws and when shown this fact they just go off about this, that, and the other why it is OK that they break the law by using some unrelated item. It's OK for you to remove the cat from your street driven car because other people smoke cigarettes, you say, but then say that I am out of my mind? Come on.

[Run L1ke H3LL]

It seems like only the junior street racing crowd, the ones with modified kiddie cars (sorry, a 2002 GTI is a kiddie car, not a real adults car anymore) are the ones that are OK breaking laws and when shown this fact they just go off about this, that, and the other why it is OK that they break the law by using some unrelated item. It's OK for you to remove the cat from your street driven car because other people smoke cigarettes, you say, but then say that I am out of my mind? Come on.

You went totally off topic by throwing in the street racing thing, which is so unnecessary. Look I know the stigma my car has, and I can honestly tell you not once I have I raced it on the street.

Now that out of the way. You might not agree with my opinions on the fact, but the millions of people that smoke everyday are probably polluting the air a whole lot more than the 2k miles a year I put on my cat less car. Yes, it's breaking the law. And I know you don't like fallacies, but I'll say it anyway. You and I both know that no one follows the law to a T. So until every other person on the planet is 100% environmentally friendly I'll keep acting my selfish way.

[Jrod511]

I'll keep acting my selfish way.

As long as you acknowledge that you are acting like a selfish child I guess it is OK; your decision is not one that any sensible and sane adult makes.

[clean'nblackmk4]

Catless, I'll be dead by the time the world ends, might as well make the most power out of it.

[Run L1ke H3LL]

As long as you acknowledge that you are acting like a selfish child I guess it is OK; your decision is not one that any sensible and sane adult makes.

Not for nothing but you must not have a lot of human interaction. People are naturally idiotic, childish and selfish.