What do you tell future employers if you have been fired?

[MeineFolks'wagen]

After working for 24 years without a single problem at any place that I've worked for, I ended up working for a private non profit about a year ago. I have received numerous complaints to the point where I have been suspended for two weeks without pay. I can go back next week and explain why I should not be fired. I've never been told who was complaining on me and I've never been told WHAT it was that I was supposedly doing to get the complaints, so it isn't like I've had any opportunity to make changes. Regardless of that, for those of you who have terminations in your past, how do you explain them/document them to future employers when you start reapplying? My plan is to resign if I feel like the meeting I will have with management next week looks like it is going in that direction. I'd rather keep my record clean at this point in my life (pushing 40).

[6cylVWguy]

So you have no idea what people have been saying about you, your superiors told you nothing other than some complaints have been lodged against you, and then your superiors suspended you?

If that is legitimately the story, I'd resign ASAP. If you can't afford to be without a job for a period of time, I'd kiss whatever ass you need to get your job back and then start looking for other work like it's your job! Of course, it wouldn't hurt to inquire about the nature of the complaints, so I'd probably approach my superiors about that the next time you meet with them.

[BetterByDesign]

resign asap or leave it off the resume. You were there for only a year?

[GreenandChrome]

After working for 24 years without a single problem at any place that I've worked for, I ended up working for a private non profit about a year ago. I have received numerous complaints to the point where I have been suspended for two weeks without pay. I can go back next week and explain why I should not be fired. I've never been told who was complaining on me and I've never been told WHAT it was that I was supposedly doing to get the complaints, so it isn't like I've had any opportunity to make changes. Regardless of that, for those of you who have terminations in your past, how do you explain them/document them to future employers when you start reapplying? My plan is to resign if I feel like the meeting I will have with management next week looks like it is going in that direction. I'd rather keep my record clean at this point in my life (pushing 40).

If you don't know what's wrong, then you can't fix it. Management, imo, sucks and is at fault for not telling you what you should improve/fix. If it's one person making the complaints, then it's ubertarded.

one thing i found out about non-profits- they don't all necessarily pay UI... which sucks when you're let go and can't collect.

document everything. start now. worse case- consult a lawyer on hostile work environments. ask for your review results- job performance.

if you're searching for a job, the best answer is "not a good match."

[AndyG86]

If you don't know what's wrong, then you can't fix it.

x100. Suck up to management to get back in the door, then start looking for another position. Then resign later on once you have a position lined up.

[MeineFolks'wagen]

Yeah, I've been looking for another job for a while and had an interview for one last week (have another one in a few weeks with someone else). Unfortunately, I can't be without a job right now and we're hurting financially already as it is. We just relocated back to Texas in an attempt at a life reboot and we've been paycheck to paycheck (wife can't find a job and the private non profit doesn't pay diddly). The suspension has already screwed us over as it is since I will probably be lucky to get $100 on my next (or last) paycheck.

I'm with what most of you had said, I really just want to resign and be done with it. But if there is a chance I can keep getting a paycheck and health insurance until I can get something else, it's what I have to do. And yes, their management is all sorts of jacked up. I've never had any issues until I went to work for this place and I've never seen anything quite like it. Of course I have been government for the last 16 years, so maybe all private companies are like this

We have a friend who is an attorney who used to work these types of cases. She said I probably have a case, but that it probably wouldn't be worth pursuing. She said best case scenario I would probably get my two weeks pay back, maybe a little for damages, and a reinstatement. Not really worth messing with (not to mention attorney fees).

I'll see what happens tomorrow

[adoniram7]

To answer the question, you put it on your resume, the reasons why,
and then tell future employers why and the lessons learned. In other
words, turn a negative into a positive.

[GTiTOM]

To answer the question, you put it on your resume, the reasons why,
and then tell future employers why and the lessons learned. In other
words, turn a negative into a positive.

Really? You'd put this on your resume? I don't understand how there's any possible positive spin here.

XYZ Non-profit May 2010 - May 2011
[accomplishments]
Reason for leaving: I have received numerous complaints to the point where I have been suspended for two weeks without pay.
Lessons learned: I was never told who was complaining on me and I've never been told WHAT it was that I was supposedly doing to get the complaints, so it isn't like I've had any opportunity to make changes.


It sounds like there's some BS going on at the non-profit. Why focus on it and draw attention to negativity on the resume? I would think if a potential new employer asks, then answer that's something truthful but to the point like "It wasn't working out, so I decided to resign and focus on new career opportunities" or more vague like (if he's laid off for example) "Well, you know how things at non-profits are these days" or even "There was a reduction in workforce and I was included in it" all would be better than "I was laid off, and here's what I learned from it...." on the resume.

[AndyG86]

If they do a back ground check they will find out about the job anyhow, so why not be up front about it. It will also raise questions if there is a gap in you employement history in your resume.

just label it as anyother job...

(example)
Account Manager
Jan 07- June 10
Helped establish accounts and manage returning customers....


If they ask why you left the position then go into detail, if not then don't worry about it.

[adoniram7]

Ditto!

Everyone at some point has left a company on bad terms.

[6cylVWguy]

I'm with what most of you had said, I really just want to resign and be done with it. But if there is a chance I can keep getting a paycheck and health insurance until I can get something else, it's what I have to do. And yes, their management is all sorts of jacked up.

I think this is both the smart and responsible way to go about things. You just got to grin and bear it and hopefully you'll be able to find something fairly quick. In the meantime, I still think it's in your best interest to get as much information as you can about the complaints.

I can't imagine working in the non-profit world. From the outside anyway, business decisions seem far more whimsical than at a for-profit company. I've been working for several years with a non-profit that looked to be fairly influential and which had quite a few big names on the board and all of a sudden, out of the blue, they just closed down one day. No warning, no nothing. I didn't have time to reach out to my contact there for a couple of days and I didn't end up hearing from her until I called her directly. I don't think I'd be able to work in a non-profit because I think it would take a level of patience and understanding that I don't possess. So kudos to you for being able to hold a position in a non profit company for longer than a week! I would be fired within a couple of days if I was in your shoes, I'm sure! And everyone in the organization would know why.

[MeineFolks'wagen]

It's definitely been an experience, don't get me wrong. Anywho, here's the update:

I'm still employed, but I'm on my last "warning" - anymore unknown infractions and I get my walking papers. Due to a technical error on their part that I pointed out, I did get my pay for the last two weeks reinstated - so that was a bonus. So now I'm trying to find another job....fast - I know it's only a matter of time before something else happens given the track record thus far.

[Egilbe]

Have they even told you what you did wrong? Or how to improve?

[Diamond Dave]

Regardless of that, for those of you who have terminations in your past, how do you explain them/document them to future employers when you start reapplying? My plan is to resign if I feel like the meeting I will have with management next week looks like it is going in that direction. I'd rather keep my record clean at this point in my life (pushing 40).

Getting complaints is one thing, but never understanding what the complaints related to or getting coached and trained through it is a recipe for disaster. So, along that line, I'd consider a new place of employment. Just remember, earning money while you are looking for a new job is MUCH more desirable than being on unemployment.

Having a "clean employment record" is a joke. Most people that have them shouldn't. Making mistakes is part of learning, but systemic mistakes is not.

Things to understand:

Your personnel file is your property and you can request it and its contents at any time (in most states). This file is also supposed to be private. For example, your company cannot divulge that information to a prospective employer for requests such as an empoyment reference or employment verification. As such threat of litigation keeps many companies from offering much information in cases when an employee was released for unfavorable reasons. Some companies just "have a rule" that "we don't give references". Believe me, I've spoken to enough of them.

Employment reference
This is supposed to be come from a direct supervisor/manager that can speak to the type or quality of your work. Someone at your current company, that isn't a peer employee, should be able to vouch for you.

When a prospective employer calls, most companies will only verify dates of employment and rehirablity status. That is, if you are logged as "not rehirable", you must be a crappy employee. Regardless of the reason you left (resigning or being fired), you should know how they will document your status. If they log you as not rehirable, you need to find a manager that can speak to your work quality. Most likely, this individual will tell them that your work product was acceptable or outstanding, but the environment or company culture was not a good fit for you (and there's nothing really wrong with that).

So, in the end, you can respectfully let future employers know that while you enjoyed the position, the culture or industry were not a fit for your background. Even citing an example or two like you did above would let someone know that you worked for a screwed up company.


In the end, being fired isn't the worst thing in the world. I've been fired a few times myself

[Vision33r]

I don't know what type of infractions you've been written down for. I would certainly want that document as well as the person(s) making the complaint so that I can sue them for libel if the complaints are unwarranted.

Unless you knowingly committed wrongdoings at the job, why would you resign if you did nothing wrong.

You need to make it clear to the employer that unless they can prove your wrongdoing, they can let you go but can't terminate you on cause.

[MeineFolks'wagen]

I don't know what type of infractions you've been written down for. I would certainly want that document as well as the person(s) making the complaint so that I can sue them for libel if the complaints are unwarranted.

Unless you knowingly committed wrongdoings at the job, why would you resign if you did nothing wrong.

You need to make it clear to the employer that unless they can prove your wrongdoing, they can let you go but can't terminate you on cause.

Well I don't either - basically just that people were/are complaining about my attitude. Since I don't think I have an attitude problem, that doesn't give me a whole lot to work with. They don't tell you who complained on you - they will not tell you who filed the complaint and do it maintain their anonymity.

Apparently I'm not an isolated incident when it comes to this, it's happened to others before and, apparently, they field a fair number of related lawsuits because of it.

Why would I resign? Because I don't want to be in the situation and given my track record thus far, I'm sure it's only a matter of time before someone complains on me again and I get my walking papers. After 24 years of having a flawless record, I don't want to start now for something as stupid as this

[Diamond Dave]

basically just that people were/are complaining about my attitude. Since I don't think I have an attitude problem, that doesn't give me a whole lot to work with.

Perception is reality. While your point is valid that you need some concrete information presented to you so you can work on your attitude, tone of voice, body language for the future, the mere fact that someone has complained about your attitude should be enough basic information for you to begin modifying your behavior.

[MeineFolks'wagen]

Perception is reality. While your point is valid that you need some concrete information presented to you so you can work on your attitude, tone of voice, body language for the future, the mere fact that someone has complained about your attitude should be enough basic information for you to begin modifying your behavior.

I would tend to agree - to an extent. I'm not acting any differently than I have acted at any other job that I've worked at for the last 24 years (16 of which was spent in federal and local law enforcement - never had a citizen complaint, never had an IA investigation, never had any write ups, etc.). Since I have a record of not having any problems at any place that I've worked at until now, I honestly don't know what it is I'm doing. Since they will not give me any concrete evidence/proof/example of what it is I'm doing, I don't have a clue what to modify. Again, I've never had any problems or complaints until now. As far as I am concerned, the problem(s) is with the special snowflakes that I work with, not me. That statement is based, again, on the fact that I've never had anyone who has/had issues with me.

I'll add a bit more to this and it's something I probably should have said earlier - I work in the field, so I don't hang around the office or have any real day to day dealings with anyone else. There are only five of us in my section that do this job and we all work outside of the office with very little interaction with anyone else in the organization. The five of us all come from government/law enforcement backgrounds and don't have an issue with each other. That only adds to my frustrations since I'm never around anyone else, I don't know who I'm offending. I'm usually the first one in the place and within half an hour, I hit the road - well before anyone else shows up.

It is what it is, I'm desperately trying to find another job right now anyway.

[sortadelux]

I'm of two minds on this.

First, rarely does an employee have multiple complaints for no reason. Really...

BUT, in the rare but occasional (and I speak from experience) that there is a company wide effort to black-ball you; comply, kiss ass and promise to address the problem. This means they have to tell you what the issue is and you are showing that you want to improve. You need to get your "action plan" in writing and ask for a follow up meeting on a pre-determined date. That way you know exactly what is up and YOU have a paper trail if the unjustly let you go.

good luck

[MeineFolks'wagen]

I'm of two minds on this.

First, rarely does an employee have multiple complaints for no reason. Really...

BUT, in the rare but occasional (and I speak from experience) that there is a company wide effort to black-ball you; comply, kiss ass and promise to address the problem. This means they have to tell you what the issue is and you are showing that you want to improve. You need to get your "action plan" in writing and ask for a follow up meeting on a pre-determined date. That way you know exactly what is up and YOU have a paper trail if the unjustly let you go.

good luck

The best I can figure is that it has only been one person, they have just been telling me it was multiple people in an attempt to hide who it really was. Like I've said, this is all new to me and frustrating to say the least. I've also found out that they get sued for wrongful termination quite a bit - I can see why. I'm still there, just trying to keep a zero profile and trying to find another job BAD.

[Chilledman]

x100. Suck up to management to get back in the door, then start looking for another position. Then resign later on once you have a position lined up.

This and the day before you quit upperdeck as many toilets as possible

Also just a FYI only put years on your resume not months you can make this job disappear that way with out any issues.

2010 to 2012 then 2013-2018

they dont need to know that you worked at xyz from Jan 2012 to Nov 2013 ....

[jnm2.0t]

resign asap or leave it off the resume. You were there for only a year?

No no, you put it on your resume and explain it. Last thing you want is your newly minted job to turn around and use a misleading resume as a fireable offense, now you have 2 strikes.

To answer the question, you put it on your resume, the reasons why, and then tell future employers why and the lessons learned. In other words, turn a negative into a positive.

Yes

The five of us all come from government/law enforcement backgrounds and don't have an issue with each other. That only adds to my frustrations since I'm never around anyone else, I don't know who I'm offending. I'm usually the first one in the place and within half an hour, I hit the road - well before anyone else shows up.

I would think that this would suffice any future employer, especially if you go back to the government/law enforcement area. Sometimes there just isn't a personality fit with people and organizations. So long as you show you are willing to try and work with these current folks amenably while you seek other employment I don't think too many potential employers would hold it against you.

[GeoffD]

I'm of two minds on this.

First, rarely does an employee have multiple complaints for no reason. Really...

BUT, in the rare but occasional (and I speak from experience) that there is a company wide effort to black-ball you; comply, kiss ass and promise to address the problem. This means they have to tell you what the issue is and you are showing that you want to improve. You need to get your "action plan" in writing and ask for a follow up meeting on a pre-determined date. That way you know exactly what is up and YOU have a paper trail if the unjustly let you go.

good luck

No they don't. He's an employee at will in Texas where there are no employment laws. His employer can do whatever they want. Unless it's some kind of discrimination/harassment case that falls under federal EEOC law, there's no law that requires an employer to tell you anything. What it really comes down to is whether he would be eligible for unemployment compensation. I'm not sure he's been there long enough to be eligible. It's probably 6 months and the guy just moved to Texas so he doesn't have the 6 months of employment in the state.

[Hostile]

Really? You'd put this on your resume? I don't understand how there's any possible positive spin here.

XYZ Non-profit May 2010 - May 2011
[accomplishments]
Reason for leaving: I have received numerous complaints to the point where I have been suspended for two weeks without pay.
Lessons learned: I was never told who was complaining on me and I've never been told WHAT it was that I was supposedly doing to get the complaints, so it isn't like I've had any opportunity to make changes.

Who puts their reasons for leaving a job on their resume...?

You put the job on your resume and say that after a year that the job just wasn't for you, the company culture didn't suit you, blah blah.

If you don't put anything you will have to explain the 1 year gap in employment history for any upcoming job interviews and that will raise red flags and questions.

Don't give any references from that job, use references from previous employers.

[Hostile]

And reading more of the OP's responses about attitude, etc.

I actually had a bit of a problem with that when I started my current job. I came from a 9 year stint at a high stress, super busy, "big law" firm where we were always go, go, go. This was the only law firm that I'd worked for so, of course, I figured that most law firms operated this way.

When I started this job I was still working under those old habits but this new firm is a lot more laid back and relaxed. So, as a result, I came off as a bit pushy and abrasive at times because that's all I had known for 9 years.

Thankfully the HR rep here in the office and my direct manager came to me in my trial period, explained the situation, and I was able to adjust accordingly. Now everything is fine.

The big difference here is that the management wanted to help me fit in. Obviously the place you work doesn't give two s***s about retaining their employees and that's just bad business.

[MeineFolks'wagen]

And reading more of the OP's responses about attitude, etc.

I actually had a bit of a problem with that when I started my current job. I came from a 9 year stint at a high stress, super busy, "big law" firm where we were always go, go, go. This was the only law firm that I'd worked for so, of course, I figured that most law firms operated this way.

When I started this job I was still working under those old habits but this new firm is a lot more laid back and relaxed. So, as a result, I came off as a bit pushy and abrasive at times because that's all I had known for 9 years.

Thankfully the HR rep here in the office and my direct manager came to me in my trial period, explained the situation, and I was able to adjust accordingly. Now everything is fine.

The big difference here is that the management wanted to help me fit in. Obviously the place you work doesn't give two s***s about retaining their employees and that's just bad business.

Yeah, they have a pretty high turnover rate. On a related note, one of the supervisors was suspended for almost a week the other day. I'm pretty sure she is one of the ones who has been giving me a hard time. They are in the process of getting a new HR director as well, so we'll see if that changes anything. We also had a staff meeting the other day and two of the other guys got in trouble for stupid stuff as well (one is about to be written up for, wait for it, talking to someone ). I have an interview in a couple of weeks for a crime scene tech job, so fingers crossed The other guys are all looking for other jobs too, it's sad really.

[Oh_My_VR6]

A little OT, but I assume you were a police officer prior to this job? What made you get out of that line of work before your 20 years were up?

[firefighterjunkie]

Oh man, this sounds like my experience (well, mine wasn't as bad as getting suspended) years ago when I worked at the public defenders office The office manager was an obsessive, angry micro-manager that constantly had an office scapegoat at any given time. Whoever she was picking on for that month or two, could never do anything right in her eyes and they would get "called into her office" to be scolded for the most trivial things. Of course, when you got called in, it was always in front of everyone to ensure public humiliation.

At one point, I was her victim and I was pretty sure that I was going to get fired. It got to be absolutely ridiculous. I got in trouble for using a pen that she hadn't "authorized", for "being tired" at work, etc. One time she even tried to accuse me of some big mistake with an assignment of a public defender to a case - even though I was on vacation that day. I felt like my job was constantly in jeopardy and I had to walk on egg shells. Once I realized that I was never going to be able to do right in their eyes, I started looking for a new job ASAP and got out there. Once I put in my notice, she was super phoney - telling me how much they were going to miss me and even throwing me a going away party. Good riddance!

Find a new job ASAP and get out there. It will never get better and you will never be able to trust them and feel comfortable at that job.

[GTiTOM]

Who puts their reasons for leaving a job on their resume...?

Well, exactly. That's why I didn't get why you said "To answer the question, you put it on your resume, the reasons why,
and then tell future employers why and the lessons learned."

You put the job on your resume and say that after a year that the job just wasn't for you, the company culture didn't suit you, blah blah.

If you don't put anything you will have to explain the 1 year gap in employment history for any upcoming job interviews and that will raise red flags and questions.

Don't give any references from that job, use references from previous employers.

Exactly. Or use references from that job that are coworkers. "I was laid off, but I can give you 5 people I worked with you enjoyed working with me".

[mdhemphill]

Who puts their reasons for leaving a job on their resume...?

You put the job on your resume and say that after a year that the job just wasn't for you, the company culture didn't suit you, blah blah.

If you don't put anything you will have to explain the 1 year gap in employment history for any upcoming job interviews and that will raise red flags and questions.

Don't give any references from that job, use references from previous employers.

I agree! You can also state that your supervisor or management wanted to move your position in a different direction and you were not considered for this move. Do not place this on your resume, only give an answer if asked about your last position.

[MeineFolks'wagen]

A little OT, but I assume you were a police officer prior to this job? What made you get out of that line of work before your 20 years were up?

I know this is late - shows you how often I duck into this thread.

I was in law enforcement for a total of around 16 years with different departments (federal and local). I mainly decided to get out of it after what I went through on my last department. Looking back, I should have stayed with the feds, but what are you going to do? I'll try to give the long story short version/reasons:

1) Got tired of seeing too many of my fellow officers doing things they weren't supposed to be doing and in the process make me potentially liable on some level or another (my last department has a horrible reputation).

2) Got tired of being pressed out by supervisors for "stats" (i.e. having a quota which is supposed to be illegal). I don't get off on messing with people for the sake of getting numbers to make my supervisor look good. There is a difference between being expected to be productive versus just expecting someone to go out messing with people for a number. Opinions differ on that, but that's mine.

3) Got sick and tired of being sick and tired all the time (rotating shifts - day work, then evenings, then back to day work, back to evenings, etc. and then on midnights three months of of the year - generally lead to being exhausted and sick all of the time). That rotation doesn't include having to come in days off, going to court, etc. Some poeple liked it, I didn't.

4) One of the major reasons was one too many close calls (i.e. fights, getting shot at, etc.). What finally did it was getting t boned by a drunk driver and getting laid up for 7 months (surgery, whole nine yards). Basically decided that it wasn't worth my life for $48K a year and leaving my wife a widow and my two little kids without a dad just because I wanted to play cops and robbers.

5) Overall burn out in general - just got tired of it. You'd be surprised at the amount of people that get out for similar reasons. Not everyone finishes off their 20

[Hostile]

Well, exactly. That's why I didn't get why you said "To answer the question, you put it on your resume, the reasons why,
and then tell future employers why and the lessons learned."

Actually, I was agreeing with your post but I didn't say the above, that was adoniram7.

[green meanie]

To get back to the original question... What do you tell future employers if you have been fired?

Employers have to be very cognizant of the things they say about past employees. If they say anything negative, it can be scrutinized during a possible legal action. I have seen really good HR guys just simply say " so-and-so worked here from whenever to whenever", then repeat that over and over until the investigator gets it.

If it looks like a hole in your employment, you list it and explain the circumstances. It is better to get your say in before the investigator finds an obvious omission.