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    Thread: Why is it so difficult to hire employees?

    1. Member jackr's Avatar
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      05-11-2012 05:29 PM #1
      Where have all the qualified candidates gone?

      I own a software company, and I'm been on Vortex since the early days. I have four positions open right now, three technical and one not. We're offering very strong salaries and benefits for all positions, and we're willing to train. Our job postings are sensibly written and prominently posted (locally at all the school online job boards, on CL and nationally on Monster), our offices are in a great location - even convenient to Atlanta's (miserable) public transit system.

      I'm hiring a .NET Developer, a SQL Server DBA, an Operations/Project Manager and an In-House SEO. I get that these positions are in high demand, but Atlanta as a Tech market has always been strong.

      We're getting a flood of applicants for the Operations/PM position - mostly folks with overnight degrees from for-profit colleges, and not much relevant work experience. I suspect we'll be able to fill this position, in time.

      We're getting almost no applicants at all for the three technical positions. These positions have been open for 6+ months, and it's really becoming an impediment to growth of the company.

      The News isn't kidding - unemployment in High Tech is truly at an all time low. As an employer with open positions in High Tech fields, this is a real bummer. I don't know whether qualified candidates just aren't out there, or if they're being snapped up by faster/bigger/better funded companies.

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      05-11-2012 05:34 PM #2
      http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...-job-interview

      Besides, Georgia is too close to Florida

      Is there no technical colleges down there training or retraining?
      Quote Originally Posted by winstonsmith84 View Post
      Tax? I don't mind paying state sales tax. Every time a see a pothole, a school that is falling down or a canceled essential state program, I remind myself why.
      Quote Originally Posted by Tornado2dr View Post
      535 members of congress plus 1 pres screwing us all the time...that's dirty pirate hooker level gang rape.

    3. Moderator SOAR's Avatar
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      05-11-2012 05:38 PM #3
      The best part about this thread is how you asked a question and answered it in the same post.

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      05-11-2012 05:43 PM #4
      those who have dropped out of the search all together

      those who can't relo due to housing market

      those who are afraid of leaving current positions due to safety net (though that seems to be picking up lately)

      those who think they should be paid top dollar w/o all the skills

      --

      my experience is #2 in the searching - and continue on 1099'ing until a hurricane levels the house
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      05-11-2012 06:17 PM #5
      start recruiting at college career fairs, and make sure you give out some random trinkets (thumb drives, stress balls, bottle openers, etc) so students/candidates can better remember your company.
      welcome to the layer cake

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      05-11-2012 06:56 PM #6

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      05-11-2012 07:03 PM #7
      I'm 30 min from Atlanta. I wish I could apply for one of those Technical Postions.

      I don't think I would qualify. I need to go back to school.

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      05-11-2012 07:09 PM #8
      Advertise nationally on Big Ten/SEC/Ivy League university job boards. My stepdad recently pulled in 200+ candidates in two weeks just by canvassing large Midwest schools.

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      05-12-2012 07:56 AM #9
      OP, I feel with you - I had a technical position open for three years in the highly attractive Bay Area that I could not fill. Almost all half-way qualified applicants were from outside the US. I truly believe that US school and college kids don't understand the science&engineering and tech market, at all. They don't realize it can mean top dollars for reasonable work hours and above-average vacation and almost guaranteed top retirement and health benefits.

      On the flip side, two of your jobs are Microsoft-specific - and at least here, that pool of applicants would be low just because there is relatively little demand for it, in comparison. And those applicants are usually undereducated and more on the left side of the bell curve in the more important categories.

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      05-12-2012 08:17 AM #10
      I wish I had some software experience, there are a ton of jobs in this field in Atlanta. I do telecom system administration and need a change. I need to go back to school but then employers want experience ( It's nice to see that you are willing to train op ) but many aren't. Good luck finding employees, we have been looking for a software developer for the past year.

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      05-12-2012 08:22 AM #11
      My company and a one of our sister companies has found very similar things. We're looking for a programmer (have no clue the specific technical details as it's not my area) and have gone through maybe 10-15 candidates. They either want too much money, generally weren't a good fit for the company, or one guy didn't want to commute 10-15 miles each way to get to work. There are absolutely jobs out there but it seems that many people just aren't qualified for one reason or another. And we really need an experienced programmer to make the copy/content I (and others in the company) develop come to life!

    12. Member Inkarnata's Avatar
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      05-12-2012 07:08 PM #12
      As a guy who is looking for a different position in IT...I'm on the opposite side of your situation.

      I've been working for the same company for 5 years now in IT (3rd party, remotely now) looking for a new position. I have an Associate's from a for-profit college, as well as a military background. While my degree is not that attractive, I have a lot of experience in my work history. But I also lack certifications...

      Some positions I think don't call me because of the lack of a Bachelor's....some for the lack of certifications.

      I've had a couple of interviews, 1 which I was offered the position, but not enough $ (which I made clear to them from the outset how much I needed to make, and I was WELL within the range for the position in my locale), 1 which I admittedly blew the interview, I was expecting to come in and talk to 1-2 people...and ended up speaking to 7...the first one being the VP of the company..which is where I blew it lol. And a 3rd which I went through quite well and was told some of the interviewees couldn't even complete the hands on test (this is a state position) I'm still waiting to hear on this one, but I know it is in the Offering stage...and I have yet to receive and offer, so I'm obviously not their first choice...

      I've never been a manager, I've never been in HR, but as a candidate for positions, my opinion is make sure you at least interview candidates who maybe don't have the degree you are looking for, but seem to have the background, and the basics of what you need. I know myself, I really want to branch out and learn more things, and experience is the only REAL way to learn it. I know a LOT more than what an Associate's from a for profit college says I know. And I have a lot of drive to excel in growing though the past 5 years in the position I'm in.
      Last edited by Inkarnata; 05-12-2012 at 07:11 PM.
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      05-12-2012 07:59 PM #13
      How much are you guys paying? I will be that blunt. I am not interested but I work in IT for the Univ of GA system and we have qualified guys always looking to jump ship as long as the pay is better.
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    14. Member GeoffD's Avatar
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      05-12-2012 08:03 PM #14
      Quote Originally Posted by feels_road View Post
      OP, I feel with you - I had a technical position open for three years in the highly attractive Bay Area that I could not fill. Almost all half-way qualified applicants were from outside the US. I truly believe that US school and college kids don't understand the science&engineering and tech market, at all. They don't realize it can mean top dollars for reasonable work hours and above-average vacation and almost guaranteed top retirement and health benefits.

      On the flip side, two of your jobs are Microsoft-specific - and at least here, that pool of applicants would be low just because there is relatively little demand for it, in comparison. And those applicants are usually undereducated and more on the left side of the bell curve in the more important categories.
      I have a different take on it. If you are smart and motivated enough to handle the work load of a Software Engineer, there are a lot of other things you can do that will earn you more money. Medicine sucks off a ton of talent. Law sucks off a ton of talent. Banking/finance sucks off a ton of talent. If you look at, say, England where doctors and lawyers don't make the same kind of money they do in the US, you see a much higher talent level in engineering.

      For smart immigrants, you don't need the same level of communication skills to earn a decent living doing Software Engineering compared to medicine or law. You see almost nobody in finance & banking with lousy English language skills.

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      05-12-2012 09:40 PM #15
      Quote Originally Posted by Aonarch View Post
      How much are you guys paying?
      This too...when I went through the whole interview process with the one company I received an offer from, I was honestly insulted by their offer. I had specifically told them, at multiple levels of interviewing what I needed, had they not been able to meet that....they should have said so.
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      05-12-2012 10:30 PM #16
      Quote Originally Posted by 2slojetta0L View Post
      I wish I had some software experience, there are a ton of jobs in this field in Atlanta. I do telecom system administration and need a change. I need to go back to school but then employers want experience ( It's nice to see that you are willing to train op ) but many aren't. Good luck finding employees, we have been looking for a software developer for the past year.
      This is a big killer for my peers heading out. They're smart, they're degreed, they're willing... but most are hearing "Sorry, we want experience." How the hell are you supposed to get experience if even entry level positions require "1-2 years experience in your field" anyway?
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    17. 05-12-2012 11:17 PM #17
      Quote Originally Posted by turbinepowered View Post
      This is a big killer for my peers heading out. They're smart, they're degreed, they're willing... but most are hearing "Sorry, we want experience." How the hell are you supposed to get experience if even entry level positions require "1-2 years experience in your field" anyway?
      It's the same for college grads all around the country. It's a nasty Catch-22. You need experience to get a job, but you need a job to get experience.

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      05-12-2012 11:34 PM #18
      I have 15 years IT management & systems administration experience. IT Director for firms in several industries. I've done Solaris, Linux, OS X, Windoze (Active Directory & Citrix farms spread across multiple locations, Exchange migrations (), Group Policy and some virtualization), and I used to speak fluent Sendmail/Postfix/Apache/BASH.

      I now play with airplanes because (1) there is ****-all for jobs that fit my skillset in this region; (2) with a Delaware address, nobody in Philly/Baltimore/DC will even respond to me even though I indicated I'd relocate at my own expense; (3) there are no "real" jobs posted on Careerbuilder/Monster/Dice/whatever... those jobs are either recruiter phishing bull****, or with larger companies they're just fulfilling their obligation to advertise to external candidates before giving it to the internal candidate that already has the qualification of "must have x years experience with our proprietary in-house software/systems/policies". The last IT interview I had around here (2 years ago) the hiring manager said he was going to pay about 2/3 of what I was making 10 years ago, and expected 70 hrs/week minimum.

      I lived in Atlanta, I still own property there. If you're serious about hiring for the manager position, PM me an email address and I'll send my resume. I need a LOT more money than I'm making right now, so I'd consider doing that again if the gig is right.

    19. 05-13-2012 01:31 AM #19
      You have to need the training and great experience to get the better job.Its very difficult for a company to select the appropriate employees.

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      05-13-2012 02:06 AM #20
      I hate this topic. I graduated in december (computer engineering), with a year's worth of internships.


      Still trying to find a job.

      Any job!

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      05-13-2012 02:21 AM #21
      I have a bachelors degree from a for profit university in IT. I have zero work experience in IT. I have been working as a teacher for the past 2 years and before that I had 5 years of CS experience. Would you give me a chance with that lack of experience?
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      05-13-2012 06:33 AM #22
      Quote Originally Posted by Aonarch View Post
      How much are you guys paying? I will be that blunt. I am not interested but I work in IT for the Univ of GA system and we have qualified guys always looking to jump ship as long as the pay is better.
      I paid $60K to $80K for Java programmers with 1-2 years of experience more than a decade ago -- also add to that full medical and reasonable retirement benefits. I paid even more for database and Unix/Linux experts (people who knew just slightly more than I did).

      Quote Originally Posted by GeoffD View Post
      I have a different take on it. If you are smart and motivated enough to handle the work load of a Software Engineer, there are a lot of other things you can do that will earn you more money. Medicine sucks off a ton of talent. Law sucks off a ton of talent. Banking/finance sucks off a ton of talent. If you look at, say, England where doctors and lawyers don't make the same kind of money they do in the US, you see a much higher talent level in engineering.

      For smart immigrants, you don't need the same level of communication skills to earn a decent living doing Software Engineering compared to medicine or law. You see almost nobody in finance & banking with lousy English language skills.
      I disagree, completely. Almost all physicians I know are not good enough in math and programming and IT that I would hire them, and they are not sufficiently motivated to even attempt to get at that level. Lawyers are a diametrically opposed field - there is virtually no overlap with the math/programming/IT crowd. Banking hires a lot of math/ IT guys and gals - but for that reason. So, these people remain in the "system."

      Finally "You see almost nobody in finance & banking with lousy English language skills" because the people you "see" need language skills, and the people "you don't see" but run everything in the background don't.

    23. Member GeoffD's Avatar
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      05-13-2012 10:36 AM #23
      Quote Originally Posted by feels_road View Post
      I disagree, completely. Almost all physicians I know are not good enough in math and programming and IT that I would hire them, and they are not sufficiently motivated to even attempt to get at that level. Lawyers are a diametrically opposed field - there is virtually no overlap with the math/programming/IT crowd. Banking hires a lot of math/ IT guys and gals - but for that reason. So, these people remain in the "system."

      Finally "You see almost nobody in finance & banking with lousy English language skills" because the people you "see" need language skills, and the people "you don't see" but run everything in the background don't.
      So you really think that mouth-full-of-marbles guy from Shanghai U is going to get hired by Goldman-Sachs in Manhattan for an investment banking or finance position? Not a freakin' chance in the world. They wouldn't make it through the telephone interview.

      The typical physician has a few dozen IQ points over the typical IT deweeb. No way you can make it into med school without having outstanding analytical skills and the MCAT is heavily weighted to screen for it. IT is mostly stuffed full of repetitive task technicians. It's not like they have the skills to implement the platforms they manage. There are some truly gifted software engineers out there but they're not doing meatball IT for a living.

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      05-13-2012 11:45 AM #24
      Quote Originally Posted by GeoffD View Post
      So you really think that mouth-full-of-marbles guy from Shanghai U is going to get hired by Goldman-Sachs in Manhattan for an investment banking or finance position? Not a freakin' chance in the world. They wouldn't make it through the telephone interview.

      The typical physician has a few dozen IQ points over the typical IT deweeb. No way you can make it into med school without having outstanding analytical skills and the MCAT is heavily weighted to screen for it. IT is mostly stuffed full of repetitive task technicians. It's not like they have the skills to implement the platforms they manage. There are some truly gifted software engineers out there but they're not doing meatball IT for a living.
      If the guy from shanghai is working the backoffice, who cares what he speaks? It's not like he's going to have to work with the front office guys at all.
      Quote Originally Posted by winstonsmith84 View Post
      Tax? I don't mind paying state sales tax. Every time a see a pothole, a school that is falling down or a canceled essential state program, I remind myself why.
      Quote Originally Posted by Tornado2dr View Post
      535 members of congress plus 1 pres screwing us all the time...that's dirty pirate hooker level gang rape.

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      05-13-2012 02:50 PM #25
      The reason .NET positions are hard to fill is because smart software people know .NET has passed its prime. I recently went through the (software engineer) job hunt and to be frank, software people are in high demand. Unless your position is interesting people will not give you any thought.

      While I had my resume posted online I received 80-100 calls per day, if you're just a boring job posting offering average compensation/satisfaction you will get lost in the sea of openings.

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      05-13-2012 03:00 PM #26
      Quote Originally Posted by Aonarch View Post
      How much are you guys paying?
      This mook is probabally offering $20k a year and thinks that people should be lining up around the corner to work at his $hit hole company

    27. Member GeoffD's Avatar
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      05-13-2012 03:35 PM #27
      Quote Originally Posted by Egilbe View Post
      If the guy from shanghai is working the backoffice, who cares what he speaks? It's not like he's going to have to work with the front office guys at all.
      I don't think you know what an investment banker does.

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      05-13-2012 03:40 PM #28
      Quote Originally Posted by GeoffD View Post
      I don't think you know what an investment banker does.


      Mostly robs people

      A software developer for an investment bank is not going to be meeting with clients, is he?
      Quote Originally Posted by winstonsmith84 View Post
      Tax? I don't mind paying state sales tax. Every time a see a pothole, a school that is falling down or a canceled essential state program, I remind myself why.
      Quote Originally Posted by Tornado2dr View Post
      535 members of congress plus 1 pres screwing us all the time...that's dirty pirate hooker level gang rape.

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      05-13-2012 03:50 PM #29
      Quote Originally Posted by Egilbe View Post


      A software developer for an investment bank is not going to be meeting with clients, is he?
      No, but a software developer for an investment bank is not an investment banker.

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      05-13-2012 03:55 PM #30
      Quote Originally Posted by IJM View Post
      No, but a software developer for an investment bank is not an investment banker.
      That's right, so it doesn't matter what language he speaks or where he comes from

      Oh jeez, nevermind. I misread what Geoff as trying to say and I agree with him
      Last edited by Egilbe; 05-13-2012 at 04:03 PM.
      Quote Originally Posted by winstonsmith84 View Post
      Tax? I don't mind paying state sales tax. Every time a see a pothole, a school that is falling down or a canceled essential state program, I remind myself why.
      Quote Originally Posted by Tornado2dr View Post
      535 members of congress plus 1 pres screwing us all the time...that's dirty pirate hooker level gang rape.

    31. Member GeoffD's Avatar
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      05-13-2012 04:04 PM #31
      Quote Originally Posted by Egilbe View Post


      Mostly robs people

      A software developer for an investment bank is not going to be meeting with clients, is he?
      My friggin' point is that if someone has the opportunity to be an investment banker for Goldman Sachs, it's unlikely they're going to pass up that income to be an engineer. An awful lot of smart people in the US end up in very high paying jobs that don't really do much to move the economy forwards. I'd argue that doctor, lawyer, or investment banker are parasitic jobs. They don't really add anything to the economy.

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      05-13-2012 04:17 PM #32
      Quote Originally Posted by GeoffD View Post
      My friggin' point is that if someone has the opportunity to be an investment banker for Goldman Sachs, it's unlikely they're going to pass up that income to be an engineer. An awful lot of smart people in the US end up in very high paying jobs that don't really do much to move the economy forwards. I'd argue that doctor, lawyer, or investment banker are parasitic jobs. They don't really add anything to the economy.
      They provide a service that others are unable or incapable of doing. I wouldn't call them parasitic.
      Quote Originally Posted by winstonsmith84 View Post
      Tax? I don't mind paying state sales tax. Every time a see a pothole, a school that is falling down or a canceled essential state program, I remind myself why.
      Quote Originally Posted by Tornado2dr View Post
      535 members of congress plus 1 pres screwing us all the time...that's dirty pirate hooker level gang rape.

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      05-13-2012 04:24 PM #33
      Quote Originally Posted by GeoffD View Post
      I'd argue that doctor, lawyer, or investment banker are parasitic jobs. They don't really add anything to the economy.
      Lawyer, maybe, slightly. Doctor and investment banker? Parasitic?

      What do you do for a living, out of curiosity?

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      05-13-2012 04:59 PM #34
      Quote Originally Posted by 22AudiQ View Post
      Lawyer, maybe, slightly. Doctor and investment banker? Parasitic?

      What do you do for a living, out of curiosity?
      depends on the lawyer. If you sit around a car forum arguing ridiculous points...
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      05-13-2012 05:43 PM #35
      honestly, I think you are looking for candidates in the wrong places, I mean craigslist for a job that is mostly likely paying 80-100k ? Dice might be the best for what you are looking for, but unfortunately those types of positions can make about 50-70k more working as a W2 contractor with benefits through a third party. The whole contractor thing in IT is very prevalent. I'm an IT business analyst and looking for a job and 95% of the jobs I get contacted for or find are all contract jobs. And I hate working contract jobs.

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