NYT: Can You Call a 9-year-old a Psychopath?

[22AudiQ]

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/13/ma...?smid=fb-share

Just read this.


Discuss.

[bluerabbit0886]

That's chilling. I expect him to be a serial killer later in life. Killing for the thrill...

[Merc-MarkO]

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/13/ma...?smid=fb-share

Just read this.


Discuss.

I read that this morning. It's disturbing for sure. What's worries me more is all the kids out there like this with parents that don't give a **** and have no medical help. This kid is loved; there are a lot that aren't.

[Tire_Marx]

My mom is a teacher, and has been for 30ish years now. She has done some resource work (Kids with learning disabilities of all kinds), and has done almost exclusively elementary grade classes,

She had a kid who would act out in the most insane ways, and would try and provoke other kids in the class. But since shes from the old school, she doesn't take crap like new teachers do.

So, this kid was inside for a recess detention due to misbehavior, and while another teacher was in the room, kid told my mom "I don't have to listen to you, my mother said so"
Mom: "That's fine, but you need to follow my rules in my class room. If you can't, then you cannot be in my classroom"

Kid didn't believe the bluff, and had to be removed later that week from the class, the principle got involved during it, and the kid started spouting off various death threats to everyone involved, some some uninvolved parties.

Fast forward, kid is back in the class, punches a kid, and looks at my mom and says "this is all your fault".
Moms reaction? Gets the school district physiologist involved, kid was classed with a bevy of disorders, even though the kids parents claim "he's a perfect angel". Principle refused to allow the kid back in until he had been in counseling and medicated. Kids parents attempted to file a lawsuit, but were served back with several, including one from the parents of the kid who was hit, and one on behalf of my mom from the school division.

I fear for the world once all the old school teachers are gone from the school system. They were like a last stop if the parents wouldn't or couldn't deal with their kids.

[Turbio!]

I read the comments and found a most excellent stats-related joke.

Michael State College, PA
Two standard deviations isn't much. If this is what is used, then 1 in 20 children will be labeled as psychopaths. On the other hand, cutting the tail of a cat bit by bit is about 100 standard deviations away from normal!
May 11, 2012 at 11:37 a.m.RECOMMENDED54

Fred G Iowa City, IA
0ne in 40 if it's one tailed.
May 12, 2012 at 3:58 p.m.RECOMMENDED29

[Der Schaltwerks]

Yes, you can call a 9 year old a psychopath.

Next question!

[Run L1ke H3LL]

If this kid had gotten a few dozen ass kickings by his father the family wouldn't have an article about them in the NYT. Lame ass parents.

[AIRider]

Gone are the days when your father sends you out to find a twig to which he'll beat your ass with.

I'm not for violence for kids, but a disciplinary spanking, or yelling is obligatory sometimes.

But what do you expect from today's parents, when this whole generation is soft!

Hate to say it, but we need a ww3, to harden these people up.

[butterface]

I read the comments and found a most excellent stats-related joke.

And the first comment you quoted was stupid also. It's two SDs from a test sample of other likely sociopaths. In other words, this kid, according to that particular test, is the mother****ing Firestarter.

[Run L1ke H3LL]

Gone are the days when your father sends you out to find a twig to which he'll beat your ass with.

I'm not for violence for kids, but a disciplinary spanking, or yelling is obligatory sometimes.

But what do you expect from today's parents, when this whole generation is soft!

Hate to say it, but we need a ww3, to harden these people up.

I don't know about WW3 but this country could use a revolution. All i know is that if that was my kid he would fear for his life if he thought about acting like that. Blame the parents!

[FBMphil]

Ohhh noooooo :

At 37, Anne is voluble and frank.

[Turbio!]

And the first comment you quoted was stupid also. It's two SDs from a test sample of other likely sociopaths. In other words, this kid, according to that particular test, is the mother****ing Firestarter.

Oh. That's true. I was more laughing at the implied "tail" joke.

[RollingInDubs]

That's all I got on this....

[ATL_Av8r]

Yes. My wife has a co-worker with a 3-year-old who masturbates ALL THE TIME. She says he works it so hard he's chapped it and regularly works up a sweat. He'll walk around the house naked just beating it and he'll say **** like "Mommy, bite it!" and "Mommy, lick it!". ****in 3 years old.....I think I'd just have to lock my kid in the attic if he started that ****.

[Der Schaltwerks]

________________________________

You wank all the time. Perhaps you should lock yourself in the attic too, preferably where there is no internet connection.

[Turbio!]

Yes. My wife has a co-worker with a 3-year-old who masturbates ALL THE TIME. She says he works it so hard he's chapped it and regularly works up a sweat. He'll walk around the house naked just beating it and he'll say **** like "Mommy, bite it!" and "Mommy, lick it!". ****in 3 years old.....I think I'd just have to lock my kid in the attic if he started that ****.

Jesus ****ing Christ. I am squicked out SO BAD right now.

[butterface]

Yes. My wife has a co-worker with a 3-year-old who masturbates ALL THE TIME. She says he works it so hard he's chapped it and regularly works up a sweat. He'll walk around the house naked just beating it and he'll say **** like "Mommy, bite it!" and "Mommy, lick it!". ****in 3 years old.....I think I'd just have to lock my kid in the attic if he started that ****.

[Katie-S]

My heart breaks for those parents. This kid needs mental help and there's probably no real cure for him.

No amount of discipline or tough-love "get your own switch" country old school bull****'s gonna work. Sad.

The other two kids are OK. This one's got a chip missing and it's ruined the life of this family. Sad.

[Yo Teach]

If this kid had gotten a few dozen ass kickings by his father the family wouldn't have an article about them in the NYT. Lame ass parents.

Gone are the days when your father sends you out to find a twig to which he'll beat your ass with.

I'm not for violence for kids, but a disciplinary spanking, or yelling is obligatory sometimes.

But what do you expect from today's parents, when this whole generation is soft!

Hate to say it, but we need a ww3, to harden these people up.

Beating this kid up won't work. It will just drive him more down the psycho path (Get it? Down the psychopath?) or turn him into a catatonic drone.

[Run L1ke H3LL]

Beating this kid up won't work. It will just drive him more down the psycho path (Get it? Down the psychopath?) or turn him into a catatonic drone.

Nah not now, jeez definitely not now. As soon as this kid exhibited the behavior you had to beat it out of him. Now he's all effed up. There's no going back now.

[AIRider]

A chuck Norris round house kick to the head would fix that kid.

[Turbio!]

Beating this kid up won't work. It will just drive him more down the psycho path (Get it? Down the psychopath?) or turn him into a catatonic drone.

Second option sounds sort of okay, comparatively.

[22AudiQ]

I fear for the world once all the old school teachers are gone from the school system. They were like a last stop if the parents wouldn't or couldn't deal with their kids.

If this kid had gotten a few dozen ass kickings by his father the family wouldn't have an article about them in the NYT. Lame ass parents.

Gone are the days when your father sends you out to find a twig to which he'll beat your ass with.

I'm not for violence for kids, but a disciplinary spanking, or yelling is obligatory sometimes.

It sounds like the mom is pretty strict and aware of her son's issues. You can't beat this out of a kid (note in the article where it mentions the physiological differences between psychopaths and normal people).

After all, haven't we had psychopaths for generations? If it's because parenting has gone soft, how do you explain all the crazies in the past?

I think too often bad parenting gets blamed on the typical ADD/ADHD/depression/etc. excuses, but this? This sounds like there's a lot more to it.

No amount of discipline or tough-love "get your own switch" country old school bull****'s gonna work. Sad.

This.

[Yo Teach]

Second option sounds sort of okay, comparatively.

Perhaps a return to lobotomies?



Jokes aside, this article mentions how there is something physiologically wrong with how the brains of kids like this function. It is not just something that can be beat out of them at age three, despite corporal punishment being the OT's go-to method of discipline and subject of "When I was a boy..." stories. It requires exhaustive medical and psychological study.

[Turbio!]

Perhaps a return to lobotomies?



Jokes aside, this article mentions how there is something physiologically wrong with how the brains of kids like this function. It is not just something that can be beat out of them at age three, despite corporal punishment being the OT's go-to method of discipline and subject of "When I was a boy..." stories. It requires exhaustive medical and psychological study.

This, indeed. The article makes it pretty clear that dysfunctional activity in the amygdala and depressed serotonin levels point to an organic cause for this kind of behavior. Sociopathy/psychopathy is as organic and fundamental to brain function as bipolar disorder, borderline personality disorder, and other personality syndromes.

[22AudiQ]

This, indeed. The article makes it pretty clear that dysfunctional activity in the amygdala and depressed serotonin levels point to an organic cause for this kind of behavior. Sociopathy/psychopathy is as organic and fundamental to brain function as bipolar disorder, borderline personality disorder, and other personality syndromes.

So you're saying the parents should aim their blows at the amygdala then?


/OP parenting




EDIT: The really scary thing about reading this for me is that I have a cousin who fits the article to a T. The kid is 18, totally backwards, manipulative, charming, brilliant, lacks empathy, loves fire (!) and has told his parents he wishes his brother and sister were never born (keep in mind that he's 18...). He spent a week with his family at my parent's home in Florida and they were seriously freaked out by him. His dad is similar and they clash a lot, which is mentioned in the article as the continued vicious cycle.

Hoping he never ends up as a violent axe murderer.

If he does, we at least have different last names.

[Robstr]

Sociopathy/psychopathy is as organic and fundamental to brain function as bipolar disorder, borderline personality disorder, and other personality syndromes.

Yeah, but OT says those other things can be treated by in kids by beatings and in adults by drinking yourself to a stupor.

Can't see why it wouldn't work just as well here!

As a sort of aside:
Has anyone here ever watched Monster? I was getting Johann vibes.

[turbinepowered]

This, indeed. The article makes it pretty clear that dysfunctional activity in the amygdala and depressed serotonin levels point to an organic cause for this kind of behavior. Sociopathy/psychopathy is as organic and fundamental to brain function as bipolar disorder, borderline personality disorder, and other personality syndromes.

Now, I'm not a neurochemist, but is it possible that, if caught at a young enough age while the brain is still forming, serotonin production could be jumpstarted and amygdala (That sounds like a Star Wars name, sorry, it's hard to type with a straight face) dysfunctionality could be remedied with chemical treatments?

I imagine that once a critical stage is passed and the brain has started to "set" that such treatments would need to be lifelong (pills 2x a day and the like) to stay "normal," but could the process be triggered early? Could an early saturation possibly "burn in" at least a weak moral compass to provide some restraint, or maybe early chemical treatments allow them to at least learn some shame/pain/punishment trigger behaviour?

[Fritz27]

In another famous case, a 9-year-old boy named Jeffrey Bailey pushed a toddler into the deep end of a motel swimming pool in Florida. As the boy struggled and sank to the bottom, Bailey pulled up a chair to watch. Questioned by the police afterward, Bailey explained that he was curious to see someone drown. When he was taken into custody, he seemed untroubled by the prospect of jail but was pleased to be the center of attention.

Holy effing ess.

This story is cray cray.

[crannky]

Nah not now, jeez definitely not now. As soon as this kid exhibited the behavior you had to beat it out of him. Now he's all effed up. There's no going back now.

The only answer is to put him down.

[nm+]

Nah not now, jeez definitely not now. As soon as this kid exhibited the behavior you had to beat it out of him. Now he's all effed up. There's no going back now.

Where did you go to medical school and do your psych residency?

[Run L1ke H3LL]

Where did you go to medical school and do your psych residency?

go ask your mom

burrrrrn

[butterface]

Now, I'm not a neurochemist, but is it possible that, if caught at a young enough age while the brain is still forming, serotonin production could be jumpstarted and amygdala (That sounds like a Star Wars name, sorry, it's hard to type with a straight face) dysfunctionality could be remedied with chemical treatments?

I imagine that once a critical stage is passed and the brain has started to "set" that such treatments would need to be lifelong (pills 2x a day and the like) to stay "normal," but could the process be triggered early? Could an early saturation possibly "burn in" at least a weak moral compass to provide some restraint, or maybe early chemical treatments allow them to at least learn some shame/pain/punishment trigger behaviour?

The brain isn't fully developed until the mid twenties. What I find interesting is that sometimes seizures, if strong enough, can substantially alter personalities. ECT for the win?

[Run L1ke H3LL]

The brain isn't fully developed until the mid twenties. What I find interesting is that sometimes seizures, if strong enough, can substantially alter personalities. ECT for the win?

if seizures can alter personalities then a swift ass beating could surely do the same at a young enough age.

[under the radar]

i bet they've tried all kinds of ''legal'' drugs on these kids with poor results but have never even considered MDMA or LSD.