How to my plugs look?

[BMP #1736]

NGKBKR7E

In order of cylinders from L to R

[87vr6]

Look fine... why are you concerned?

[HidRo]

I would say he is concerned due to cyl 3 one being different? It looks like they are burning ok, but that cyl 3 one is not as dark (I believe it's leaner?) than the others.

[BMP #1736]

yea exactly.

why is that one plug always so much cleaner when i change plugs?

[Gonzo@GonzoTuning]

Looks fine to me

[groggory]

Num 3 is a little different... But I think those plugs are looking great

[BMP #1736]

Ok well thanks everyone

[groggory]

Actually, the lean'ish look on #3 could be a leaky fuel injector seal on the #3 cylinder. That could cause a little less fuel to make it to the cylinder and cause a slightly leaky condition.

So...if they're old you can always go buy a new set of injector o-rings and see if that helps things run better.

[BMP #1736]

I replaced the top and bottom injector orings on all 4 last month

It was doing the same thing before i replaced them

[groggory]

I replaced the top and bottom injector orings on all 4 last month

It was doing the same thing before i replaced them

I don't think it's that bad...

but if you want to get to the bottom of it I'm suspecting an injector issue perhaps.

Could you switch your #2 and #3 injectors, put in some fresh plugs, use new o-rings (again), and check your plugs again in another 5,000 miles or so?

[BMP #1736]

When i did the orings i didnt put the injectors back into the fuel rail in the same order. Or atleast i didnt take note of it. So there is a 1/4 chance i put it in the same spot. Ill try that out and run it for a day or so and update this thread.

It would explain the random misfires and feeling of fuel restriction went WOT i suppose.

Thanks for ur help erryboddyyy

[Slimjimmn]

are you using BP or super america fuel by any chance?

[groggory]

Are you seeing misfires on blocks 15-16 on a pull?

[BMP #1736]

Im using socal gas. The highest we have here is 91 and i always try to use chevron w/techron. The extra couple cents per gallon is totally worth the peace of mind.

And hey grog, i do not own a vagcom but i have a very nice mechanic close by who owns a vag and shop. I fix his plane and he does almost everything for free on my end. Lol

But i can feel the random misfires sometimes at cruising speeds. Only happens sometimes.

[HidRo]

If for some reason, ignition is not good in that cylinder, it will cause some misfires as well.
Do you have the correct gap in all plugs? How wide is the gap?
After testing injector relocation, you can try to do the same with the Coils. And then inspecting again the plugs.

[Slimjimmn]

according to those pics, that cylinder is not getting enough fuel. Either a clogged injector or leaky seal causing lean condition.

[prob3r]

Check the harness too. Make sure the wire insulation isn't cracked and there's no exposed wires. Had one short against the fuel rail which resulted in the injector only opening about 70-80% of the time.

[BMP #1736]

When you say "leaky seal", are you referring to the orings on the injector, or some other seal somewhere

[gdoggmoney]

2 has signs of light detonation as well as 4.


1-3-4-2 so something is cooking in there and not quite right.


1 rich and "ok", 3, lean..... 4, rich and light detonation, 2 rich and light detonation.


You need macro pics of the porcelain/ceramic insulator as well as the electrodes surfaces where the gap jumps.


I can see it from these pics, your insulator is not a proper color. I can see tiny bits of metal in it.




Does ME7 do individual cylinder trims? If not, it could be correction after the fact causing the rich on 2 and then 4.........

1-3-4-2

Damn it hope I remembered the firing order properly.... Haven't had a distributor VW in yars.

[BMP #1736]

Well i jist developed a power steering fluid leak.
So all this plug stuff is gonna have to wait till thats fixed. :/ thanks everyone whos chimed in to help me out.

I just hope this leak isnt all the way into my rack. Bleh

[groggory]

Well i jist developed a power steering fluid leak.
So all this plug stuff is gonna have to wait till thats fixed. :/ thanks everyone whos chimed in to help me out.

I just hope this leak isnt all the way into my rack. Bleh

Put it up on the rack. Get some rags and cleaner and clean it all off the best you can. Then run it, put it back up on the rack. Look for leaks.

If you can't pinpoint it, add some UV dye to your power steering fluid. Do the same test, but check it with a UV light and some UV glasses.

I have a weird power steering leak right now too. The line that goes from the power steering pump to the driver's side rack was rubbing on the a/c fan and got a bit thin in the middle. This causes power steering fluid to 'weep' out under certain conditions.

Very frustrating. I have the part, I just need to change it out now.

[BMP #1736]

All i have is a pair of homemade ramps but they should work fine for finding this one i hope.

Ive seen many different kinds of power steering leaks but never on a vw. These cars always tend to suprise me.. lol

But from what i can see with a light and mirror it doesnt seem like my steering rack is wet at all, just the front hose going to the pump.

But like i said, vw's always suprise me.. so we'll see.

Ill let u know when im done if theres anything special to becareful of, cuz chances are ill break it ha

[Slimjimmn]

When you say "leaky seal", are you referring to the orings on the injector, or some other seal somewhere

injector to intake oring or the injector seat itsself in the intake manifold. do a search for injector seat

[PoorMansDub]

Ever had the mani off? Maybe that gasket needs replacing (or both) but definately torque those bolts to spec some air can sneak by if the intake rung is not tight enough to the head...sometimes oil seap can drip on the gasket and create a passage way for air.

Power steering leak. Check the pressure sender switch where the plastic meets the brass on top. once u clean everything leak should be apparent. Also feed hose from resevior that stupid clamp can loose tension over time slap a worm clamp on there.

[BMP #1736]

thanks for the suggestions poorman

it appears to have been my switch. is it common for the switch to leak fluid? But more specifically the INSIDE of the switch?

when i disconnected the electrical plug there was PS fluid actually pooled inside it at the bottom.
im seeing on alldata that its listing an oring that sits between the switch and the banjo. when i removed the switch all that was there was a single flat washer. is there suppose to be an actual oring?

[PoorMansDub]

I dont know if its common I have only owned a mk4 for a couple weeks. The washer is a crush washer. the leak is inside the sender. Where the plastic meets the brass there should be a rubber cement looking seal on the outside. if thats gone then it leaks.

[rex_racer]

thanks for the suggestions poorman

it appears to have been my switch. is it common for the switch to leak fluid? But more specifically the INSIDE of the switch?

when i disconnected the electrical plug there was PS fluid actually pooled inside it at the bottom.
im seeing on alldata that its listing an oring that sits between the switch and the banjo. when i removed the switch all that was there was a single flat washer. is there suppose to be an actual oring?

Yes it is common for the switch to leak. The o-ring they are referring to is a crush washer. It should have come with your replacement sensor. Do not reuse the old crush washer, as it will leak.

The ends of the hoses, where the crimps are, is another common leak point for the ps system. A bad switch or a leak can cause the idle and vacuum to fluctuate. The ECU will compensate and alter its idle speed and tune when it sees a change in power steering pressure.

[groggory]

Ps, I think it's a steel crush washer

[gdoggmoney]

Yes it is common for the switch to leak. The o-ring they are referring to is a crush washer. It should have come with your replacement sensor. Do not reuse the old crush washer, as it will leak.

The ends of the hoses, where the crimps are, is another common leak point for the ps system. A bad switch or a leak can cause the idle and vacuum to fluctuate. The ECU will compensate and alter its idle speed and tune when it sees a change in power steering pressure.

As much as I love Motronic, I can't believe I am now going to look at my power steering switch. 200k and the pump is noisy plus the idle is not fun when you turn the wheel.

[BMP #1736]

So 35$ later im up and running. And my idle is rock solid again.

Apparently the leak was causing a change in pressure (imagine that..) that the switch was constanly trying to fix. Hence bouncy idle lol

[groggory]

So 35$ later im up and running. And my idle is rock solid again.

Apparently the leak was causing a change in pressure (imagine that..) that the switch was constanly trying to fix. Hence bouncy idle lol

Definitely something to add to my mental checklist.

I have a leaky PS hose. I wonder if this will help lock my car in even better when I get that fixed

[PoorMansDub]

Groggory...it is steal, can a copper be used in its place? Yes when I fixed my switch leak my idle went to smooth as butter no hiccups.

[groggory]

Groggory...it is steal, can a copper be used in its place? Yes when I fixed my switch leak my idle went to smooth as butter no hiccups.

I would replace it with the same sort of crush washer. Usually there's a reason they choose particular types of crush washers. The PS system is VERY high pressure. Just do it the way the engineers intended.

PS...I have a bag of those washers sitting in my garage waiting for me. I picked them up at the dealer and yes, they were steel.

[PoorMansDub]

Well I dont know how high pressure the power steering system is but VW engineers use copper crush washers on the CIS system throughout and Im assuming that system is very pressurized as well. I will use my buddies GLi as a lab rat and see what happens. Gotta be better than re using the metal one at any rate.

Side note: Im thinking the reason copper isnt used may be due to the brass material of the power steering compnenets...

[gdoggmoney]

Well I dont know how high pressure the power steering system is but VW engineers use copper crush washers on the CIS system throughout and Im assuming that system is very pressurized as well. I will use my buddies GLi as a lab rat and see what happens. Gotta be better than re using the metal one at any rate.

Side note: Im thinking the reason copper isnt used may be due to the brass material of the power steering compnenets...

Could be like you said, or the Pentosin synthetic reacts with copper?

I can't recall what is used if any washers on the rack itself. Even though I've swapped a rack in my car.