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    Thread: Definately have an issue with my unitronic tune. chime in unitronic

    1. Moderator groggory's Avatar
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      05-15-2012 04:40 PM #26
      Quote Originally Posted by Mindfault View Post
      Whenever i get a chance, ill put my car on a rack and recheck the wiring to the sensors. Im not throwing any codes besides oxygen sensor heating circuit. Ill check continuity between the connector and back probe the sensor, or ill set up an o scope and see what the pattern looks like. Hopefully just a bad sensor. But yeah, that would be the reason it runs stupid rich. It seems to me though that the actual afr is more rich with fuel. Damn thing looks like a diesel
      I just went through this just a couple days ago. Took me 2 YEARS!!! to diagnose it.

      My advise.

      Disconnect the o2 sensor.

      Unplug the larger ECU harness connector

      Ohm out between the front o2 sensor plug and the ECU. You'll need a friend to help with this.

      There are 6 wires going to the front o2 sensor. 5 out of the 6 wires go to the ECU. 1 wire goes to a relay for the heater circuit. There is a clear diagram in the Bentley showing the o2 sensor wiring, their color codes, and what ECU pin numbers they go to.

      FYI...The heater circuit is VERY IMPORTANT. You will kill o2 sensors if your heater circuit is not working right. If you plug your o2 sensor in and let it dangle from the o2 sensor wiring then key-on your car, you should feel the o2 sensor get hot within 30-60 seconds. This means the heater is working properly. Also, you can check that there is 12V between __?__ wire and ground when the car is key-on.
      Last edited by groggory; 05-15-2012 at 04:49 PM.
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    2. 05-15-2012 05:02 PM #27
      I dont have a bentley manual, all i have is alldata, and most of the time that is incorrect, ha. So if u know the pin # and wire color that would be very helpful. Thanks a lot.
      Unitronic830cc/Racetronix 846cc flowmatched injectors/HP6262SP-b/ TurboSmart Race Port/PrecisionPW39/TurboSmart MBC/Snow W/M Injection/IE Rods/AEB pistons/ARP Main cap studs/ARP headstuds/3" turboback/ FMIC/Custom fuel surge tank/ Wally 255/AEB head/supertech single keeper valves/ IECVA1 cams/IE valve springs and retainers/034 motor mounts. SPEC Stg 4 6 puck clutch, Vr6 lightweight flywheel. KRM intake manifold/80mm tb

    3. Moderator groggory's Avatar
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      05-15-2012 05:06 PM #28
      I'll look when I get home tonight
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    4. 05-15-2012 05:09 PM #29
      Kk, thanks boss hopefully its just a bad sensorrr
      Unitronic830cc/Racetronix 846cc flowmatched injectors/HP6262SP-b/ TurboSmart Race Port/PrecisionPW39/TurboSmart MBC/Snow W/M Injection/IE Rods/AEB pistons/ARP Main cap studs/ARP headstuds/3" turboback/ FMIC/Custom fuel surge tank/ Wally 255/AEB head/supertech single keeper valves/ IECVA1 cams/IE valve springs and retainers/034 motor mounts. SPEC Stg 4 6 puck clutch, Vr6 lightweight flywheel. KRM intake manifold/80mm tb

    5. Moderator groggory's Avatar
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      05-15-2012 06:07 PM #30
      FYI, running rich kills o2's

      What's the scoop in those deletes?
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    6. 05-15-2012 06:13 PM #31
      I did all the deletes and resistored them.
      Unitronic830cc/Racetronix 846cc flowmatched injectors/HP6262SP-b/ TurboSmart Race Port/PrecisionPW39/TurboSmart MBC/Snow W/M Injection/IE Rods/AEB pistons/ARP Main cap studs/ARP headstuds/3" turboback/ FMIC/Custom fuel surge tank/ Wally 255/AEB head/supertech single keeper valves/ IECVA1 cams/IE valve springs and retainers/034 motor mounts. SPEC Stg 4 6 puck clutch, Vr6 lightweight flywheel. KRM intake manifold/80mm tb

    7. 05-15-2012 06:20 PM #32
      My gti was left at boostedwolf's house after the dyno cause i was pissed at it. Im driving the jetta now, he lives about 40 minutes away. So i dont have time to b going there n checking for continuity. And everything right now. I believe all the deletes are fine, im not throwing any codes for them or anything. So hopefully its all good. Will check those when i check o2 sensor continuity and wiring
      Unitronic830cc/Racetronix 846cc flowmatched injectors/HP6262SP-b/ TurboSmart Race Port/PrecisionPW39/TurboSmart MBC/Snow W/M Injection/IE Rods/AEB pistons/ARP Main cap studs/ARP headstuds/3" turboback/ FMIC/Custom fuel surge tank/ Wally 255/AEB head/supertech single keeper valves/ IECVA1 cams/IE valve springs and retainers/034 motor mounts. SPEC Stg 4 6 puck clutch, Vr6 lightweight flywheel. KRM intake manifold/80mm tb

    8. Moderator groggory's Avatar
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      05-15-2012 06:22 PM #33
      Quote Originally Posted by Mindfault View Post
      My gti was left at boostedwolf's house after the dyno cause i was pissed at it. Im driving the jetta now, he lives about 40 minutes away. So i dont have time to b going there n checking for continuity. And everything right now. I believe all the deletes are fine, im not throwing any codes for them or anything. So hopefully its all good. Will check those when i check o2 sensor continuity and wiring
      Sounds like a plan.

      But just keep in mind you have two seperate problems

      1) Your front o2 isn't working

      2) Your fuel trims aren't adapting.

      As far as I know, these are not related to each other and as such, should be considered two separate problems.
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    9. 05-15-2012 06:26 PM #34
      How do i get the fuel trims to adapt? I understand the o2 sensor issues and i will be troubleshooting that, but what do i do to get the fuel trims to adapt?
      Unitronic830cc/Racetronix 846cc flowmatched injectors/HP6262SP-b/ TurboSmart Race Port/PrecisionPW39/TurboSmart MBC/Snow W/M Injection/IE Rods/AEB pistons/ARP Main cap studs/ARP headstuds/3" turboback/ FMIC/Custom fuel surge tank/ Wally 255/AEB head/supertech single keeper valves/ IECVA1 cams/IE valve springs and retainers/034 motor mounts. SPEC Stg 4 6 puck clutch, Vr6 lightweight flywheel. KRM intake manifold/80mm tb

    10. Moderator groggory's Avatar
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      05-15-2012 06:34 PM #35
      Quote Originally Posted by Mindfault View Post
      How do i get the fuel trims to adapt? I understand the o2 sensor issues and i will be troubleshooting that, but what do i do to get the fuel trims to adapt?
      The quickest way to KEEP THEM from adapting is having the N112, N80, or VVT deleted incorrectly.

      Ensure all three of those are configured properly.
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    11. 05-15-2012 06:40 PM #36
      My vvt isnt deleted, so ill be checking the n112 and n80. But what am i looking for? Corrosion or what with the resistors and what not?
      Unitronic830cc/Racetronix 846cc flowmatched injectors/HP6262SP-b/ TurboSmart Race Port/PrecisionPW39/TurboSmart MBC/Snow W/M Injection/IE Rods/AEB pistons/ARP Main cap studs/ARP headstuds/3" turboback/ FMIC/Custom fuel surge tank/ Wally 255/AEB head/supertech single keeper valves/ IECVA1 cams/IE valve springs and retainers/034 motor mounts. SPEC Stg 4 6 puck clutch, Vr6 lightweight flywheel. KRM intake manifold/80mm tb

    12. Moderator groggory's Avatar
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      05-15-2012 06:45 PM #37
      Ensure the resistors are properly connected. Personally, I used the postreleased resistors that are now available on IE's website.

      The bummer about the resistors is you can't ohm them out if you've soldered them in. I don't think it's safe to connect an ohm meter to your ECU generally. Ohm meter's use voltage drop to measure resistance.
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    13. 05-15-2012 06:52 PM #38
      Yeah, i have a high impedance dmm, so i think that should be fine with the ecu. Anyway, ill check out the deletes and see if they are good connections. Ahh. Headaches i tell you. But thanks for all the info man. I appreciate it a ton!
      Unitronic830cc/Racetronix 846cc flowmatched injectors/HP6262SP-b/ TurboSmart Race Port/PrecisionPW39/TurboSmart MBC/Snow W/M Injection/IE Rods/AEB pistons/ARP Main cap studs/ARP headstuds/3" turboback/ FMIC/Custom fuel surge tank/ Wally 255/AEB head/supertech single keeper valves/ IECVA1 cams/IE valve springs and retainers/034 motor mounts. SPEC Stg 4 6 puck clutch, Vr6 lightweight flywheel. KRM intake manifold/80mm tb

    14. Moderator groggory's Avatar
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      05-15-2012 07:09 PM #39
      Quote Originally Posted by Mindfault View Post
      Yeah, i have a high impedance dmm, so i think that should be fine with the ecu. Anyway, ill check out the deletes and see if they are good connections. Ahh. Headaches i tell you. But thanks for all the info man. I appreciate it a ton!
      FYI...It's only high impedance when you're reading voltage. When you're reading resistance it definitely loads the circuit.
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    15. 05-15-2012 07:46 PM #40
      Well it is, but we discovered here and at nefmoto through people who spent hours watching flow execution that the MAF is the true source of load calculation in a motronic system.

      Think of it like having CIS or CIS-E, but no airflow meter. What kind of crap is that? How would it ever work?

      I have a UNI 630 tune scaled for a 2.75" ID housing (TT housing or VR6) with an OEM AWP sensor. It works phenomenal, and the car ran 100% garbage with no MAF.

      It made power, but it had so much in the way of hesitation and misfires that it took so long for the power to come on it was essentially worhtless.


      Now the car is so smooth and it absolutely rips into boost the boost builds faster and harder, it's smoother and no hesitation.


      What does a MAF do? Determines the MASS of an AIRFLOW. Without an accurate measurement of the charge, or mass of the flow, you are guessing and adding/subtracting fuel here/there afte the fact, which is AFTER the fact and causes hesitations, light misses, a slow climbing tach, flatspots..... etc. etc.

      DougLoBlue gained 50whp plugging in his MAF on maestro.

      I can tell you running my lil 3076 @ 18psi now with a MAF, it feels like it gained about something similar powerwise.

      Ask UNi if your tune was scaled for a MAF. I think UNI maxes with an S4 MAF or 3" housing anyways, they don't offer a file with scaling for a 4" MAF if I recall.

      However, until you overrun the MAF, you need it.

      My understanding? Timing is extremely load dependant. My timing values bounced all over at idle, add a MAF? Theyre very very stable now. The misfires associated with that timing bounce? GONE! Same at part throttle.

      Mafless rev it in neutral hold at 3k. Don't move foot at all.... notice small oscillations

      MAF rev it in neutral hold at 3k dont move foot at all... VERY steady, almost NO oscillations.

      Something is happening there, and that is just neutral.


      Historically look at bosch. You had L-Jet, and D-jet. Or luft jetronic, and druch jetronic. 1967-1979 or so. My 1975 914 has a Luft-jetronic. Luft, air mass. Druck Jetronic, or pressure jetronic.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jetronic


      Bosch figured out over the years, you truly need BOTH of these to accurately control an engine, have it make big smooth power and run great at part throttle. WIth a turbo car, your asking for a serious amount of resolution to go from -HG to +22psi, and how do you know the actual MASS or lb/m the compressor is pushing in? A maf.
      really makes me think about going back to a maf on my cts 3076-I really haven't had any problems though.

    16. 05-15-2012 07:55 PM #41
      ^right me too. if i have to end up sending my ECU back out to unitronic to get the rev limiter tuned right, ill probably be going 3" MAF. is there any other reason why i would be hitting limiter at 7640 RPM rather than 8500 like i specified? oh and thanks grog. i wont be using the DMM on the ecu itself. i will be checking continuity between the Ecu harness connector, and the connector for the o2 sensor. but correct me if im wrong, doesnt the tune delete out the n112 and all of that? so even if it wasnt resistored i feel like it wouldnt affect the fueling because it is deleted and the ecu doesnt rely on the information anymore. i may be wrong about that, anyhow i will still check my resistors.

    17. Moderator groggory's Avatar
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      05-15-2012 08:23 PM #42
      For awp

      Front o2 sensor

      o2 harness plug
      Pin 3 is heater +
      Pin 4 is heater gnd

      Heater + is 12v with ignition keyed on

      Ecu pin .. Harness Wire color .. o2 connector number ... o2 sensor wire color

      52 .. grey/red .. 6 ... Red
      71 .. black .. 2 .. Not connected
      51 .. grey/white .. 5 .. Yellow
      70 .. green .. 1 .. Black
      5 .. white .. 4 .. White

      Relay 87A .. blue/red .. 3 .. Grey
      Last edited by groggory; 05-15-2012 at 08:26 PM.
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    18. 05-15-2012 08:29 PM #43





      So i will be checking continuity between T121-52 and T6c/6. T121-71 and T6c/2. T121-51 and T6c/5. T121-70 and T6c/1. T121-5 and T6c/4. Where do i check from T6c/3. To e30? Where tf is that?
      Unitronic830cc/Racetronix 846cc flowmatched injectors/HP6262SP-b/ TurboSmart Race Port/PrecisionPW39/TurboSmart MBC/Snow W/M Injection/IE Rods/AEB pistons/ARP Main cap studs/ARP headstuds/3" turboback/ FMIC/Custom fuel surge tank/ Wally 255/AEB head/supertech single keeper valves/ IECVA1 cams/IE valve springs and retainers/034 motor mounts. SPEC Stg 4 6 puck clutch, Vr6 lightweight flywheel. KRM intake manifold/80mm tb

    19. 05-15-2012 08:45 PM #44
      relay 87a is up under the dash or what?

    20. 05-15-2012 08:48 PM #45
      87a is just a connection, do u know exactly where that is? thanks man

    21. Moderator groggory's Avatar
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      05-15-2012 10:08 PM #46
      I don't know where 87a is, sorry
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    22. Member 20vturbslo's Avatar
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      05-16-2012 11:40 AM #47
      Quote Originally Posted by groggory View Post
      Here's the data... My Analysis of logs
      Can I send you my advanced measuring blocks for analysis?


      Quote Originally Posted by Mindfault View Post
      My vvt isnt deleted, so ill be checking the n112 and n80. But what am i looking for? Corrosion or what with the resistors and what not?
      Just for reference, the N112 is the Diverter valve, and the N80 is the EVAP valve?

      I have a Uni2+ tune and my car has been running poorly, a lot of misfires and lack of power, I know my IATs are sky high at the moment due to an inefficient air to air intercooler. But could it be directly related to a bad MAF?
      Not enough time in the day.

    23. 05-16-2012 12:51 PM #48
      Yeah, they are valves but i have mine deleted, and resistored.
      Unitronic830cc/Racetronix 846cc flowmatched injectors/HP6262SP-b/ TurboSmart Race Port/PrecisionPW39/TurboSmart MBC/Snow W/M Injection/IE Rods/AEB pistons/ARP Main cap studs/ARP headstuds/3" turboback/ FMIC/Custom fuel surge tank/ Wally 255/AEB head/supertech single keeper valves/ IECVA1 cams/IE valve springs and retainers/034 motor mounts. SPEC Stg 4 6 puck clutch, Vr6 lightweight flywheel. KRM intake manifold/80mm tb

    24. Moderator groggory's Avatar
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      05-16-2012 12:51 PM #49
      Quote Originally Posted by 20vturbslo View Post
      Can I send you my advanced measuring blocks for analysis?




      Just for reference, the N112 is the Diverter valve, and the N80 is the EVAP valve?

      I have a Uni2+ tune and my car has been running poorly, a lot of misfires and lack of power, I know my IATs are sky high at the moment due to an inefficient air to air intercooler. But could it be directly related to a bad MAF?
      Sure, start a thread and pm me a link
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    25. 05-22-2012 12:56 AM #50
      Okay so i did some test today on that circuit. What i found was 52 and 6 had continuity,
      71 and 2 had continuity,
      51 and 5 O.L.,
      70 and 1 O.L.
      5 and 4 have continuity. Wtf is up?


      Should i just re wire those 2 wires? Hopefully those 2 pins in the ecu arent shot. Groggory, chime in
      Unitronic830cc/Racetronix 846cc flowmatched injectors/HP6262SP-b/ TurboSmart Race Port/PrecisionPW39/TurboSmart MBC/Snow W/M Injection/IE Rods/AEB pistons/ARP Main cap studs/ARP headstuds/3" turboback/ FMIC/Custom fuel surge tank/ Wally 255/AEB head/supertech single keeper valves/ IECVA1 cams/IE valve springs and retainers/034 motor mounts. SPEC Stg 4 6 puck clutch, Vr6 lightweight flywheel. KRM intake manifold/80mm tb

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