Username or Email Address
Do you already have an account?
Forgot your password?
  • Log in or Sign up

    VWVortex


    Results 1 to 3 of 3

    Thread: 02M preload info for Dub-Nub

    1. Member Broke's Avatar
      Join Date
      Aug 13th, 2001
      Location
      Columbus, Ohio
      Posts
      15,011
      Vehicles
      86 GTI 2.0L, 88 Scirocco 16V, 2010 F150 STX
      05-16-2012 02:07 PM #1
      The IM only allows so many characters, so I decided to just post it as a thread, then others can gather info from it through searches. After spending 2 full hours researching and typing, I figure the info is good enough to save it in a thread

      Original IM:
      Quote Originally Posted by Dub-Nub
      Hey Broke, thanks again for the input. I have a budde who works at VW dealer locally and he is going to let me borrow the tools that I need, which is great. I started the installation yesterday by taking the transmission off. Currently doing research on the shimming, which is what i am most concerned about. Differnet threads have different information.

      In my thread you mentioned starting with a .65mm shim, which is what i measured for the non-changing shim. In another thread for 02m i saw you mention a 1.7mm shim.

      Another LSD thread from TDIClub indicates some preload measurements

      3) I shoot for .010-.014" of preload. The math goes something like this; Free play measurement + .002" or .003" for what preload you'll lose because of the case sealant + .010" to .014" = shim thickness.

      Here was mine: Original shim was .039". Free play was .024". 39-24=.015".
      .015" - .003"= ~.012" preload with original shim. Since that's in spec, no new shim required.

      I have the bentley but was unable to find the correct procedure for the 02m. Maybe it is because i have the paperback edition?

      Reading though the steps that you posted

      -Mount a dial onto the casing and diff and zero it with 1mm preload, and lift the diff up and down, noting the amount of play recorded by the dial.
      -Add 0.30mm shim preload to the measured play and that is the final shim.

      When i move the diff up and down and i get .15 play then i add a .45 shim, ya?
      Reply:

      Quote Originally Posted by Dub-Nub
      Hey Broke, thanks again for the input. I have a budde who works at VW dealer locally and he is going to let me borrow the tools that I need, which is great.
      Hit him up for the elsa repair database info. The dealer will get updates to have the latest info. The elsa database has the factory repair info that is used by Bentley publishers to make the manuals.
      Verify what VW states for your trans preload.

      The info I have covers these codes: EDJ, ERR, FML, FSR, FZQ, FZR,
      It is older info, so it might have been updated.

      Quote Originally Posted by Dub-Nub
      In my thread you mentioned starting with a .65mm shim, which is what i measured for the non-changing shim. In another thread for 02m i saw you mention a 1.7mm shim.
      The 0.65 is the constant shim size for those shims in the bellhousing half of the casing. The gearbox half of the casing gets the adjustment (changing) shims.

      The 02M with the dual output shafts has two 0.65mm shims in the bellhousing... one for the output shaft for 5th, 6th, and reverse, and then one for the diff.
      The output shaft for 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th doesn't have a shim under the bellhousing race. It has an oil deflection ring.
      The input shaft has no shim.

      That should be the 4 taper bearings... diff, input, output#1 and output#2.... 2 don't get shims, the other 2 get standard non-changing 0.65mm shims.

      1.7mm is the starting shim size for the OTHER end of the output shafts. The shim you put into the gearbox half of the casing. It is the shim you start with to begin the procedure of determining the correct shim needed.

      Quote Originally Posted by Dub-Nub
      3) I shoot for .010-.014" of preload.
      It depends on what shaft is being done. For the input shaft, no preload. For the diff bearings, 0.012" and for the output shafts it is 0.008".... technically VW wants 0.20mm preload on the outputs, and 0.30mm preload on the diff which is *about* 0.012" and 0.008" when converted.

      Quote Originally Posted by Dub-Nub
      The math goes something like this; Free play measurement + .002" or .003" for what preload you'll lose because of the case sealant + .010" to .014" = shim thickness.
      VW makes no mention of compensation for case sealant. In my experience, it is minimal and in theory should be zero. It should fill micro imperfections in the case sealing surface. It is not a gasket maker and won't result in a thick barrier between the 2 case halves. When it is applied properly it should allow the case halves to come into full contact with each other, just as if there were nothing on them. The sealant should be squeezed out and the preload wouldn't be affected.
      What effect there would be would be extremely minimal. I might one day test it to be 100% sure, but my experience using the sealant and opening those trans that had sealant originally tells me there is no need to add any shim size or preload to make up for it.
      The only mention VW makes of the sealant, which DOES support the claim of the ClubTDI poster, is that the 2 case halves should be free of sealant before starting the preload procedure.
      I suspect this step is added to ensure that any balled up pieces of old sealant that might be on the surfaces is removed fully.
      Sooo... VW does say to remove any old sealant, but then they do not make any concessions for the adding of sealant later... it tells me they aren't that worried about the thickness of the sealant to be added later.

      Quote Originally Posted by Dub-Nub
      Here was mine: Original shim was .039". Free play was .024". 39-24=.015".
      .015" - .003"= ~.012" preload with original shim. Since that's in spec, no new shim required.
      Converted to metric, that would read:

      Original shim was 0.99mm. Free play was .61mm. 99-61=.38mm.
      .38mm - .08mm= ~.30mm preload with original shim. Since that's in spec, no new shim required.

      If that is one of the output shafts, which the procedure he lists suggests, then he is over the VW spec by 50%.

      If he measured .61mm free play he would subtract that from the 0.99mm shim to get .38mm then add the VW preload constant of 0.20mm and you get 0.58mm, so a 0.60mm shim is what he needed.

      Quote Originally Posted by Dub-Nub
      I have the bentley but was unable to find the correct procedure for the 02m. Maybe it is because i have the paperback edition?
      They might not include the detailed trans rebuild info in the Bentley. I know the MK3 book doesn't have the 020 info, but the MK1 and MK2 books do.... so I'm not sure on that one, but I know not all have the detailed trans rebuild info in them.

      Quote Originally Posted by Dub-Nub
      Reading though the steps that you posted

      -Mount a dial onto the casing and diff and zero it with 1mm preload, and lift the diff up and down, noting the amount of play recorded by the dial.
      -Add 0.30mm shim preload to the measured play and that is the final shim.

      When i move the diff up and down and i get .15 play then i add a .45 shim, ya?
      With a 0.65mm shim under the bellhousing bearing, and no shim in the gearbox half, if you lift the diff 0.15mm, then yes, you need a 0.45mm shim.
      They state to press the diff into the bellhousing bearing and spin it 8 times, then press it into the gearbox bearing and spin it 8 times, then lift and measure. They want the bearings settled. They want you to press to ensure the rollers roll and don't slide or skid. This will settle them.

      DIFF ADJUSTMENT
      The diff is like the 020.... a constant (0.65mm) shim in the bellhousing, nothing in the gearbox, settle bearings, measure play, add play to preload constant of 0.30mm and that is the shim needed.

      INPUT SHAFT ADJUSTMENT
      For the input shaft, they want no preload. They want to have it so it is not loose, but has no preload constant value. The shaft should move 0.065mm-0.150mm when done.
      They want both output shafts installed and preload adjusted before adjusting the input.
      You install it with no shim in the bellhousing, and none in the gearbox. Measure the play. The shim will be slightly less than the play (to ensure a little play remains). The shim goes in the gearbox half.

      OUTPUT SHAFTS ADJUSTMENT
      For the output shafts... one gets a standard 0.65mm shim under (the shaft with 5th, 6th, and reverse) the race in the bellhousing, the other shaft (1st-4th) gets no shim under the race in the bellhousing, just an oil deflection ring.
      Preload one shaft at a time, no other shafts in the trans with it.
      Settle bearings prior to measuring.
      Install a 1.70mm shim into the gearbox half.
      Put the case together, tighten the bolts. The 1.7mm will be too thick, and you will "crush" the shaft with the casing.
      Now, put the dial on, attach it to the bellhousing and have it resting on top of the gearbox. We want to measure the movement of the top of the casing from the bottom, so the movement of the gearbox half away form the bellhousing.
      When the dial is in place, zero it with 1mm preload. This means press the dial in 1mm until it gets back to showing zero again on the face. This way the dial is working from the middle of the operation range. That's what they mean when they want the dial preloaded 1mm but zeroed.
      With the dial in place, showing zero, 1mm preload... loosen the casing bolts evenly until the shaft is no longer "crushed" and can move.
      Note the dial measurement. As you loosened the bolts, the gearbox half lifted up away from the bellhousing. As soon as the shaft is free to move, look at the dial.

      For an example, let's say you measured 0.70mm on the dial as you loosened the casing bolts.

      Your 1.70mm shim crushed it. Releasing 0.70 of casing bolt no longer crushed it. Thus, a 1.00mm shim would eat up ALL the play, but NOT crush the shaft.
      VW wants it crushed. They want exactly 0.20mm of crushing to take place.
      We now know that 1.70 crushes it, and 1.00mm is zero-crush and zero-slop. Add on the 0.20mm crush VW wants and you end up with 1.00 + 0.20mm = 1.20mm
      You need a 1.20mm shim to get the right amount of "crush" or constant preload for that shaft.
      Repeat with the other output shaft.

      I think that is it.
      For the record... I've never done any of the above. I don't work on the 02M. I do know how to preload a VW 020 trans and I have the 02M info so the above procedure should be technically correct and accurate. If you find any errors, let me know but MY excuse is that I don't work on them
      020 trans info pages - www.BrokeVW.com
      NEW 0.7619 5th gears for the 020
      NEW 020 reverse gears
      '86 GTI 8V 2.0L -'88 Scirocco 16V - '10 F150 4x4

    2. Member Dub-Nub's Avatar
      Join Date
      Sep 27th, 2005
      Posts
      4,947
      Vehicles
      '13 Jetta SE
      05-16-2012 02:45 PM #2
      Thanks again

      I will send you something when i am done with this installation, it may not be much but it's something.

      I am going to get with my guy and have him check ELSA for latest procedures and let you know what they are.

      This is good learning material, as confusing as it is for someone who has not opened it. I have to try and picture everything in my head.

      I found this good PDF file.

      http://www.volkspage.net/technik/ssp/ssp/SSP_205.pdf

      Lots of good information.

      Only the diff needs to be shimmed for me since i will not touch the output shafts

      Edit:

      Including original thread regarding shims that i have which Broke helped out

      http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...s-for-end-play
      Last edited by Dub-Nub; 05-16-2012 at 03:04 PM.

    3. Member bdfcorrado's Avatar
      Join Date
      Feb 3rd, 2006
      Location
      quebec city
      Posts
      1,206
      Vehicles
      1995corrado/ 24v corrado/ GLI 02
      02-09-2013 01:27 AM #3
      Im gonna use this .

      thx

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •