Competition for the V11 GTi

[BMWDAD]

Gentlemen, I am new to the forum, and currently drive a 08 BMW 335i coupe/sports/6mt.

I am looking for a new class of car, that is smaller, lighter, and more tossable then my BMW.

The current forums I am on are:


1. BMW 2 series coupe
2. Miata ND
3. Subaru BRZ
4. Redesigned Audi TT
5 VW GTI V11


These are all cars coming in 2013-2014 except for the BRZ (which I would wait for a STI version)

Does this forum view the above list as the GTI's competition in the USA?
Is there any other cars to consider?

Thanks in advance.

[randomkoreanguy]

I would say that the GTI will offer more practicality than the other options on this list, but it will neither be smaller nor more tossable than any of the others. The GTI is a fun to drive car, this is true, but the MKVII will be larger than the current car, though it will be engineered to be lighter weight by supposedly as much as 200 lbs, it will still be a relatively heavy car compared to something like the next generation Miata, which Mazda promises will lose weight and decrease in size compared to the current Miata.

If you need more practicality, the GTI would be my choice. Rumors are that the next MKVII GTI will be lighter than the current car, larger, more powerful, and more refined. Top Gear posted a more comprehensive list of predicted changes on their website, but that's the basic rundown. If you get the four door model, you can easily seat four people comfortably plus cargo, make runs to Ikea, and move a surprisingly large amount of stuff for the car's size. Doing the same in, say, a Miata will be decidedly more challenging. As a trade-off, the Miata will offer a lot more rear-wheel drive bang for the buck open top fun.

I dare say most people will say most of these cars are not direct competitors to the GTI or to each other, but people sometimes cross shop based on what factors beyond the obvious. For my money, the GTI is the car that is both fun to drive and exceptionally practical in everyday use. If that's what you need, then I would seriously consider if. If you can sacrifice the practicality, never need to drive anyone other than yourself, have no use for things like cargo room or rear passengers, get a BRZ or Miata.

Just my two cents.

[BMWDAD]

THank you for you post.

If the cars I listed are not direct competitors to the GTI VII what are?

Thanks in advance.

[randomkoreanguy]

Ford Focus ST - By the time the next GTI is ready for our market, this should be on sale already. It produces similar power and is also a front wheel drive hatchback.

Mazdaspeed Mazda3 (aka Mazda 3 MPS in Europe) - The current Mazda 3 will be getting on in years by the time the new GTI is here, but it produces the most power by far. It might also torque steer you into a tree if you're not careful.

Subaru WRX - Subaru claims the next WRX will no longer be an Impreza, but will instead be its own independent model. Current rumors are that it will be larger, faster, and more upscale than the current WRX.

Mitsubishi Lancer RalliArt - Mitsubishi squashed rumors that it was going to kill the Evo and its siblings, but who knows if they'll get around to releasing a new RalliArt hatchback.

Mercedes A Class - Some people say its coming, some say no. Mercedes' new hatchback is a pretty car, but I'm not sure it'll be fast or performance oriented. Maybe there'll be a "sport" trim. There's going to be an AMG version, but I bet that'll cost north of $40k.

Mini Cooper S / Clubman / Countryman - All the various Mini models overlap in pricing with the GTI depending on how crazy you get with the options. Most regular folk love Mini for their design savvy, but enthusiasts adore the sharp handling. It tends to be pricey though, and you can spec a Mini up to $40k if you go nuts with options.

Hyundai Veloster Turbo - This is Hyundai's entry into the hot hatch market. Reviews are mixed, but I would personally rather have a GTI. I might be biased though.

[BMWDAD]

Okay, I see where you are going. But because of the refinement of the GTI, I thought it would not compete with the cars you listed.

Thanks for your input. I think the ride/drive of the GTI matches my group better than yours, except maybe the Focus ST, which could be the real competitor.

For me, let the best drivers car, that is really a fun ride win.

[BMWDAD]

according to car and driver performance compacts

BMW 1-series Mazdaspeed 3 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution Subaru Impreza WRX VW GTI
One to Watch: Ford Focus ST (2012)

You picked four cars in the group, and I only one.

[feels_road]

OP, I think you need to decide whether you can make use of decent cargo space and usable back seats, or not. Also, have you driven a high-powered FWD car? Some love it, some don't mind it, and some absolutely hate it - because they can't get used to it, and miss tail-out hooliganism. Finally, the Miata and BRZ are great handlers - but they are not particularly fast.

If you find the practicality, great long-distance highway comfort, and interior of the GTI appealing, another car to consider is the MkVI Golf R. Sure, it is on the current (not the upcoming) platform, but it is the performance Golf and will not be available on the MkVII platform probably for another 3-4 years. It also has by far the best resale value of all the cars you are considering.

[randomkoreanguy]

OP, I think you need to decide whether you can make use of decent cargo space and usable back seats, or not. Also, have you driven a high-powered FWD car? Some love it, some don't mind it, and some absolutely hate it - because they can't get used to it, and miss tail-out hooliganism. Finally, the Miata and BRZ are great handlers - but they are not particularly fast.

If you find the practicality, great long-distance highway comfort, and interior of the GTI appealing, another car to consider is the MkVI Golf R. Sure, it is on the current (not the upcoming) platform, but it is the performance Golf and will not be available on the MkVII platform probably for another 3-4 years. It also has by far the best resale value of all the cars you are considering.

Well said. The Golf R is luxurious (which seems to be one of your requirements), has lots of amenities, but is also a great performance oriented hatchback and has an interior that's leagues above any other hot hatch sold stateside. Generally speaking, it has positive reviews from most automotive journalists (if such things concern you), and the all wheel drive system makes it very sure footed in nearly all weather conditions. It's worth considering, for sure.

[feels_road]

... It's worth considering, for sure.

OP just needs to make sure to order one ASAP.

[BMWDAD]

I had considered the Golf R, but decided to pass, and wait for the next round of new cars.
After careful consideration, I have a new list.

BMW 2 coupe
VW GTI VII (3 door)
Something that I do not know about.

Why? I just bought a new Cervelo, and refuse to put it on the outside of the car. Both the BMW and the GTI, the bike can go inside.

I will be watching this forum, and thanks for your help.

[Burnette]

Well, I guess I'm not the only cyclist that keeps his bike inside (I have a car but I use my Nissan Frontier pick up to transport the bike. I don't have to take the wheel off and I keep her locked up safe with the bed shell).
First, congrats on the Cervelo, awesome bikes they are.
I too want a car versatile enough to carry my bike inside. I may go with a sedan, depending on what's out in a year or two, but with a hatch I could let the truck go.
As has already been stated, the Golf R would my choice, that car just calls to me. I'm tired of FWD, want AWD or RWD in my next ride. Not ready to buy yet and so I will miss getting an R as they ramp down prodcution of them. (All you guys/gals with Rsing Blue Rs, take care of them, I might buiy it from you in a year or two!).
As far as FWD goes, I am open minded enough to new tech and the new Ford ST has some interesting features, I even like the looks of it. I used the Ford Build Configurator for the Focus ST and it came out about the same as a GTI Autobahn. The St has 252 hp stock and I like the interior with Recaro seats. Just wish it had the Revo Knuckle of the Euro RS.
Then there is a new GTI coming. I like the current one, worth waiting to see what Volkswagen does with the new one.

[Cozotess18]

It also depends on when you are looking to get one of these cars. The Focus ST will not be available until late 2012. It looks like a great car - and having 3 styles of Recaro seats to choose from is especially nice. The new WRX and WRX STI will be available next Spring and news is (I get Drive magazine), that Subaru is returning to a 2.0 litre, and will weigh less, thus have better gas mileage and power. The BRZ STI won't be available until calendar year 2014. Still no decision on whether the BRZ STI boxer engine will only be available as a naturally aspirated engine. I can't wait for this car or the new WRX/WRX STI to come out. The WRX and WRX/STI will be built upon a modified Impreza chassis, be considered a separate line, and Subaru is apparently reserving the turbocharged boxer to the WRX lines. However, the BRZ in any form is not a competitor for the GTI, it's barely a 4 seater.

[BadBnny]

Sure, it is on the current (not the upcoming) platform, but it is the performance Golf and will not be available on the MkVII platform probably for another 3-4 years. It also has by far the best resale value of all the cars you are considering.

I've been reading a lot lately on the R but haven't read were the MkVII won't be available in an R version for that long of a time. Where did you find the info this?

[2literA2]

Well, I guess I'm not the only cyclist that keeps his bike inside (I have a car but I use my Nissan Frontier pick up to transport the bike. I don't have to take the wheel off and I keep her locked up safe with the bed shell).
First, congrats on the Cervelo, awesome bikes they are.
I too want a car versatile enough to carry my bike inside. I may go with a sedan, depending on what's out in a year or two, but with a hatch I could let the truck go.
As has already been stated, the Golf R would my choice, that car just calls to me. I'm tired of FWD, want AWD or RWD in my next ride. Not ready to buy yet and so I will miss getting an R as they ramp down prodcution of them. (All you guys/gals with Rsing Blue Rs, take care of them, I might buiy it from you in a year or two!).
As far as FWD goes, I am open minded enough to new tech and the new Ford ST has some interesting features, I even like the looks of it. I used the Ford Build Configurator for the Focus ST and it came out about the same as a GTI Autobahn. The St has 252 hp stock and I like the interior with Recaro seats. Just wish it had the Revo Knuckle of the Euro RS.
Then there is a new GTI coming. I like the current one, worth waiting to see what Volkswagen does with the new one.

The only issue is that the Ford interior is absolutely not in the same league as the GTI. I just purchased a 12' GTI with the Autobahn package and the interior is stunning. I've owned 2 mkII GTI's, driven plenty of mkIII's, own an mkIV Golf GLS. Also own a 2001 (B5) Audi A4. The GTI is at Audi level of interior refinement. Even my best friend who just purchased a 12' WRX was blown away with the difference in interior quality. The GTI has come a long way since the days of the original Rabbit and Golf.

If this is something you want to sit in and enjoy driving as well as feel at home in the cockpit, then the VW wins hands down.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[Burnette]

I like the pictures of the interior of the 2013 Ford Focus ST. The interior fit and finish of a car is a big thing, were it fits in a persons decision to buy a car is an individual prefernce hard to quantify. The whole package means more than a slice for me.
I have a 2007 Jetta. Local dealer gave a new Passat to drive while they looked at my car (climate control problems). The Passat interior was nowhere near as nice as mine. No a fair fight, the Passat was a base model, mine is a Wolfsburg edition Jetta. A higher level Passat may be nicer. The interior on the Passat, though not as nice as mine, wouldn't be a deal breaker for me if I wanted a new Passat. And so it will be for some who like the Ford Focus ST, interior won't be a deal breaker. I happen to like the ST interior, it looks modern and fresh. In a perfect world you have everything, but I would personally give up some interior bits for a great chassis and drive train.
If Volkswagen continues with it's down grading and decontenting (which I don't blame them for, local dealer told me sales were way up with the new vehicles) they will be on the same level as the rest. I even like the new Audi A3 interior, spartan as it is.
Volkswagen has built a following as a quality economy car builder and I see so many forums were VW owners harp on the inetriors. I get it, I like mine. But I also get the guys/gals that like other things just as much. VW had better bring it, the competition is getting better performance wise. Can't hang your hat on a nice dash in the performance market.

[BMWDAD]

Interesting read for cars under 30,000.

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...or_comparison/

[BMWDAD]

Reviews are in for the ford focus st. Most are very positive, and gives the GTI VW mark VII something to go for.

For me not having a three door is a deal breaker.

[1-VW]

Edited:

I read the thread in the daytime for the first time and removed some half-asleep comments .


Having test drove a 135i, I would find it very challenging to trade trade a 335i for any hatch aside from a tuned Golf-R. The current/redesigned TT-S or 135i would be at the top of my list for a smaller, lighter and more tossable alternative.

[MkII_Matt]

O.P

have you considered the new tt-rs?