Heater Hose Assembly Leak?

[Zambee500]

Anyone experience a coolant leak at the hose assembly on their Routan yet? Apparently it was a common leak on the '08 Chrysler/Dodge minivans (both 3.8L and 4.0L engines) at the Y-fitting where the heater hose diverts front and rear heater hoses. Very common problem on Chryco's in prior generations too. Mine blew over the weekend as I was about to turn onto the interstate. So I instead drove to the next light (watching temp gauge closely), turned left into the VW dealership (how convenient!) and left it there. Steam coming out of the hood, opened the hood and there was coolant everywhere in the engine bay. Will find out tomorrow how much this will set me back. Knowing VW dealerships, I'm pessimistically expecting a $500 or $1000 repair estimate (in which case I'll have a tow truck take it elsewhere).

I first found evidence of a slow leak a few weeks ago after noticing some evaporated coolant splatter under the hood. At the time, I inquired with my independent mechanic and he called the Dodge dealer and said it was a $300+ part, dealer-only. I topped up coolant a time or two since then (not much at all) and was planning to have it taken care of at the upcoming 60k mile service. Didn't make it that far though.

Did some 'research' at the Chrysler minivans and Dodge forums sites, and everything there seems to support it being a common problem. Several people there reporting it as a $300 dealer-only part too. Same as my independent mechanic said a few weeks ago. But then some other folks apparently found the part for $90, $120, and $186. Problem is I have the Dodge part number (04677603ak) but can't find the corresponding VW part number. Anyone know?

Here are the two on-point threads I found:
http://dodgeforum.com/forum/dodge-ca...nt-leak-2.html

http://forum.chryslerminivan.net/sho...e-a-leak/page2


Just trying to get prepared for a talk with the dealership tomorrow. Would love to know what other VW dealerships are quoting for it online for comparison's sake, but for life of me I can't find it and the Dodge part number of course doesn't correspond to any VW part number.

[Zambee500]

Seems like it might be VW part# 7B0121086B (old part number ended in A), which would be $90-ish.

If I'm reading things right, it appears to be this VW Part:
http://www.jimellisvwparts.com/produ...B0121086B.html

Which is the same as the Dodge/Chrysler part number I posted earlier 04677603AK which is $94:
http://www.factorychryslerparts.com/...4677603AK.html

If it's the right part for this:

[vdubtech398]

Ive done a bunch of these. But if i remember right I was getting the part from the dodge dealer. I dont think VW has its own part number/hose. I think it is a dodge only part. I could be wrong. I think the ones i did were like $90-$150. Pretty easy to do.

[Zambee500]

Yes, about $90 part. It lists for $108, but my dealership was selling it for $90. The local Chrysler/Dodge dealership had it for $94. And the VW part# that I posted earlier is accurate: 7B0-121-086-A (my dealership put a -A on instead of the -B that is also available...or at least that's how the invoice reads). There was another $231 in other supplies (coolant) and labor. And then $19 in tax and fees. $340 out the door.

Which leads to another question: does anyone "fix" anything anymore, or are we just in a R&R world now? I was in a pinch in that I blew a coolant leak and didn't have the luxury of time to research everything. But it was just the Y-diverter that was leaking (circled in red in my earlier post), but rather than "fix" that they replaced the entire assembly. From reading on the Chrysler minivan and Dodge Forum web-sites, the Y-diverter is a $15 part (after-market) and replacing that and the two hoses that stem off of it with new hose clamps is less than $50 in parts total. And supposedly replacing the whole assembly adds a ton of labor to just replacing the Y-diverter, hoses, and clamps. But the "service adviser" at dealerships looks at their computer screen and say the whole assembly has to be replaced. WTF!? I could understand paying a little extra in parts to save on labor, or vice versa, but almost doubling the parts cost and also doubling the labor cost?... Doesn't make any sense (except to the VWoA bean-counters, of course).

[vdubtech398]

If i remember correctly the Y part of the assembly is a hard plastic that is molded over a rubber hose. I am pretty sure you cannot seperate the two pieces. that is why the whole assmebly needs replacement. Or at least I dont think so i will have to double check when I get back to work

[Zambee500]

If i remember correctly the Y part of the assembly is a hard plastic that is molded over a rubber hose. I am pretty sure you cannot seperate the two pieces. that is why the whole assmebly needs replacement. Or at least I dont think so i will have to double check when I get back to work

Sounds like that's the case. I recall someone in those other threads I posted to saying that it was easier/cheaper on labor to just cut out the Y-diverter using snips and cutting through the hose, and just replace the Y-diverter. Then put on new hoses and clamps for a few bucks to replace what you cut through, rather than go through the labor of replacing that entire assembly with the pipes, etc.

Actually, IIRC it was the guy who took the picture I linked to in my second post. I think he bought the whole assembly but just cut out the Y-diverter and replaced that rather than the entire assembly. If it was a DIY job, I could see that approach being easier if you don't have a lift at home.

[58kafer]

If you look at the piece(I checked our 2010 4.0) and were to buy the complete assembly you could just un-do the clamp off the water neck and then the other 2 clamps that go to the hard lines and then the other two clamps. I think you could probably just do the complete job with a pair of pliers. Why the hell would anyone even the dealer replace the whole she-bang-a-bang, when you can do just that. Heck that is a 45 minute job, it's not like the hard lines are old and brittle. It's also a bit stupid that they sell you everything including the hard lines. Take a good look at it, it's such a gravy job.

I don't trust anyone, not even myself sometimes, but as for the next guy going to the dealer to have the job done I'd mark those aluminum tubes to see if they actually are replacing them. I'm not knocking the dealers OR the techs, but if the tech is on flat rate they know all the little cheats to get the job done under time, but properly repaired. So if the job pays 3 hours and he can swap just the rubber hoses in say 45 minutes, cause he knows the hard lines are still good. He just shaved 2 hours 15 minutes and can now go start his next repair. My buddies on flat rate use to find all the shortcuts on certain GM vehicles, then his service writer who was always good in directing the correct repair to the correct tech was actually making his guys a good rate, they just needed to hustle for their paycheck versus stressing over whether they could finish in time or were they going to lose money.

[vdubtech398]

Its all buisness, cant knock a flat rate tech for being good at his job. I can do a Tbelt job in an hour but I get paid 5. Should I only get paid an hour? I have dont this job with out replaceing the metal pipes. Cause like you said there arent brittle or worn. But only charge an hour not 3 and maybe .5 labor.

[jtackers]

Thanks for the post, thought that was the part on mine that is leaking, now I'm sure. Seems like you should be able to order just the splitter and bonded hoses as an assembly, but I guess they figure if one part is going best to replace all. Easy enough job, but having to replace the metal tubes seems wasteful. It is probably the same assembly they use in the factory and didn't want to break it down for replacement part inventory.

Looks like the set screws in the plastic collars are causing the failure, seems like it should be a recall item.

Thanks also for part numbers, made search much easier!

[58kafer]

If anyone has their old leaky one in one piece please PM me. I'd be interested in seeing one to possibly produce just the "y" out of aluminum and then offer them here for sale at hopefully a lower cost than the complete assembly and then all you need to do is get the proper hose clamps and you won't need to waste the time or money on the whole deal. So please let me know, this is just a feeler so I need to have one so I can measure it, CAD it and then get it quoted. I'm already looking at lathe time and TIG welding time, but I think if I can get 25 made at a time the cost will be down. Thanks

[Zambee500]

There are some newer posts on the dodgeforum link I posted in the OP back in May. Some as recent as last week and throughout last month. See page 3 and bottom of page 2. It includes some part numbers at a couple different stores. (Post #28 is great.) The Y-fittings posted in that thread are plastic though, but I bet it might be cheaper to buy one of those and take it to a plumbing supply house and find a pre-fab metal Y that matches it, versus CAD-ing it and having one made. Just a thought. Or for $15 in parts and an hour of labor, just go with plastic and see how far it takes you.

I'm $350 down already, so I'm not looking for backup parts for this fix in the near-term. I mean, it's Chrsyler, so that repair should get me another 3 years or so, right? I do wish I had requested the old parts from the VW dealership, but alas that wasn't on the top of my mind at the time.

[Zambee500]

BTW '58, that wasn't meant to sound unappreciative. Really do appreciate your dedication and effort and willingness to share it all to make everyone else's lives here easier. Thanks for that.

[georgef61]

58kafer,

I replaced my "Y" with the one in the following photo:



I can't send you my old one because I want to keep it as a spare (I think it was leaking at the clamps but I need to pressure test it to be sure). To help you out I created a drawing of the old one.

Here it is:


As you can see from the differences in the two parts, I don't think the dimension are too critical.

Let me know if there is any other data you need.

George

[58kafer]

58kafer,

I replaced my "Y" with the one in the following photo:



I can't send you my old one because I want to keep it as a spare (I think it was leaking at the clamps but I need to pressure test it to be sure). To help you out I created a drawing of the old one.

Here it is:


As you can see from the differences in the two parts, I don't think the dimension are too critical.

Let me know if there is any other data you need.

George

Very cool! Did the hoses fit tightly on the one you used? Thanks for that drawing. I'll run it past my father in law to see what the manufacturing cost will be, then I'll run it past the welder to see what his cost will be. Only thing that will kill the cost is the fixture I need to have made to get it welded. I guess you do engineering for a living?

[georgef61]

Did the hoses fit tightly on the one you used?

I would say it was a snug fit, unfortunately I didn't check the diameters of the ends before I installed it, but I believe they were smaller than the original. The original is a tight fit in the 5/8" heater hose.

I guess you do engineering for a living?

Your guess is correct.

George

[georgef61]

Here are some aftermarket plastic "Y"s that are designed to be used for heater hoses:

1. Murray part number 84757 (available at O'Reilly Auto Parts)
2. ACDelco part number 15-31767 (available at RockAuto.com)
3. GM part number 88918449 which has been superseded by 19193809 (available at your local GM dealer)
4. Four Seasons part number 84757 (available at Summit Racing)

From the pictures I have found, they all appear to be the same.

Note, I listed the "available at" above for reference, there are many other places they can be purchased, including eBay and Amazon.

[58kafer]

Just had ours replaced under warranty!!!!!!!!!!!! Well it was covered under warranty but we were just out of warranty. I had mentioned twice about smelling antifreeze and when we went in for the 36K check up I mentioned it to the service writer that I could see some antifreeze drips on the top of he trans and felt the"Y" and it was wet. Naturally it was dry when they had it--I checked it before we dropped it off and it was dry. But 2 thousand miles later it had leaked real good on top of the trans. Made the phone call, dropped it off, they checked it, picked it up(they had to order it), went back two days later, dropped it off, then picked it up again all fixed up for free. I did notice that my dealer only switched the rubber hoses and the "Y" as an assembly.

So, now I'll lean on my father in law to quote me for making them from aluminum. If I do make them I'll be offering them up for sale on here. I'd like to come in far below what the entire assembly would cost from the dealer, I'm just not sure what quantity that will be at. I don't want to make 200 of them just to get the price right.

So the moral of the story is mention the smell of antifreeze early and possibly your dealer will cover it under warranty. I'm not sure why they wouldn't, I'm sure it gets charged back to Chryco. Again my dealer has came through on top!

[shilkdaddy]

so I just replaced that pesky y fitting with the one from O'reillys. I used 3/4" heater hose to replace all of the connected hoses. Let me be clear... I am not a mechanic. That being said, while taking a test drive around town for about 45min to 1 hour running errands, the temperature stayed at or around 200 degrees. It did venture up to about 205 and then went down almost immediately. My questions, is 3/4" heater hose acceptable in this application? It seemed to fit the connections a little loose but so far no leaks. Second, is it normal for the temperature to go over 200 and then go back down quickly? I live in the bay area of California so ambient temperature is not really a factor I would assume. Thank you to any and all who reply and also the above posters.

[rubikp]

Thank you everyone! I fixed it myself! Worked just fine. I got the part (1. Murray part number 84757 (available at O'Reilly Auto Parts)). Thank you, thank you, thank you!

[Petro73]

Hey rubikp, how's that replacement part treating you? I just came across the same problem and I am hoping for some good news. Thanks in advance!