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    Thread: American Cars

    1. Member
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      05-20-2012 11:05 PM #1
      How does everyone feel about the American Car Companies and their products? I've noticed that lately TCL has been in a circle jerk over how terrible any car under the big 3 is, new or old. Almost every thread discussing an american car leads to everyone trashing it, even if its just over the name of the car.

      I personally haven't driven any of the new offerings (since the whole bankruptcy). So I can only go off reviews of the cars, which seem to be fairly positive. I have driven an 09 Silverado and an 06 GTO though, both were pretty great, and have seemed to be pretty reliable.

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      05-20-2012 11:07 PM #2
      Quote Originally Posted by invisiblewar View Post
      How does everyone feel about the American Car Companies and their products? I've noticed that lately TCL has been in a circle jerk over how terrible any car under the big 3 is, new or old. Almost every thread discussing an american car leads to everyone trashing it, even if its just over the name of the car.

      I personally haven't driven any of the new offerings (since the whole bankruptcy). So I can only go off reviews of the cars, which seem to be fairly positive. I have driven an 09 Silverado and an 06 GTO though, both were pretty great, and have seemed to be pretty reliable.
      Not sure what threads you are reading, but I have noticed many TCL members are fans of American Cars. The only ones that seem to despise them are the euro fanboys/dubbers.
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      05-20-2012 11:09 PM #3
      Trollers gonna troll.

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      05-20-2012 11:15 PM #4
      Quote Originally Posted by Ben.Reilly View Post
      Not sure what threads you are reading, but I have noticed many TCL members are fans of American Cars. The only ones that seem to despise them are the euro fanboys/dubbers.
      yeah yeah yeah call out the vw guys again. sure.

      dont forget the huge portion of TCL that has the exact same feeling towards VWs.


      I, for one, dont hate all american cars. There are actually a few that i would rather enjoy.

      g1 camaro, g3 camaro, newer crown vic (manual swapped obv), and a few more i cant currently recall off the top of my head.
      what i AM against, is automatic transmissions and barges, and so many american cars happen to fit into that.

      so yeah, carry on.
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      05-20-2012 11:23 PM #5
      I know for a while it seemed TCL was all pro American companies putting out good products but the last month it seems like people just bash the american offerings

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      05-20-2012 11:27 PM #6
      I have never owned an american car...can't help you with this one.
      Quote Originally Posted by Hawk View Post
      I'm filming this thread. Just thought I'd let everyone know. I've had some bad experiences with threads in the past.
      Quote Originally Posted by Fritz27 View Post
      I like when dumb people quote mechanical grip as a metric of whether or not a car is fun to drive. It's like saying McDonald's is the best restaurant because you get a lot of calories for your money.

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      05-20-2012 11:33 PM #7
      "American" cars that are rebranded Europeans cars or were simply designed in Europe with appropriate character and driving dynamics are rather nice. Examples: new Ford Focus (especially ST), Buick Regal, and a few more.

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      05-20-2012 11:37 PM #8
      Quote Originally Posted by stascom View Post
      "American" cars that are rebranded Europeans cars or were simply designed in Europe with appropriate character and driving dynamics are rather nice. Examples: new Ford Focus (especially ST), Buick Regal, and a few more.
      By this logic, All Bangle era BMWs are American. And aren't most new Fords and Chevys the same worldwide?

    9. 05-20-2012 11:38 PM #9
      I've been driving a 7 year old American car with over 110k miles on it every day for the past year, and it hasn't given me a hiccup of trouble except that it was purchased with a bum alternator.
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      Quote Originally Posted by Fritz27 View Post
      I was more annoyed with the implication of being a Browns fan.

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      05-20-2012 11:39 PM #10
      Quote Originally Posted by invisiblewar View Post
      ...I have driven an 09 Silverado and an 06 GTO though, both were pretty great, and have seemed to be pretty reliable.
      The GTO was an American car?

      I prefer the Euro-designed "American" cars, but still not enough to buy one.
      :gift:

    11. 05-21-2012 12:00 AM #11
      I've felt for a long time American car companies had lost their way. I bought a brand new Saturn SL2 in '92, then a year later (after it was wrecked) I bought a Ford but after that I really didn't see anything I could warm up to. In the last, say, decade or so I've felt American cars were making a comeback and I voted with my wallet to back up my statement.

      So here's my first American car in 20 years :


    12. 05-21-2012 12:07 AM #12
      The Big Three American automakers screwed themselves by offering crap for years. I have family that worked for Chevrolet, so for some strange reason I "pull" for Chevrolet like a sports team with a losing record. Even though other than the 'Vette I wouldn't buy a Chevy. Leaving trucks aside, let's look at the cars. The Lumina, updated Monte Carlo, Cobalt, SS Caprice (oh yes, sporty but ugly land yacth) any Camaro after the seventies, other than the Vette, all crap. How do I feel about them now? Well, I think the new Camaro has the performance but misses in the looks department, so I'll say that's my issue, might be a good car, don't know. After the Camaro and Vette, nothing strikes me a something I would buy. I think Chevy is still lost, cars on the horizon look boring and what is on the lot now doesn't appeal to me.
      I like what Cadillac is doing, the new ATS looks like it may be something I would look at. The CTS V rocks, like it.
      Buick? Well, just the Regal GS. but too many better choices out there for the money, I think Buick is going in the right direction though. Buick scores well in some quality comparison institutions.
      Ford, oh boy, super biased against them at first but now that is gone. They made crap for years too (I was a Ford mechanic during the late eighties, early nineties), Tempo, Escort, never die but crappy to drive Crown Victoria, Taurus (exterior design a hit/advanced, four banger a problem and not fun to drive. The SHO was a torque steer demon, but fun could be had with it) and Thunderbird, crap (I was there when Ford put a tiny four cylinder tirbo in the T-Bird, too much weight for that tiny motor).
      How do I feel about them now. Now, I think that Ford did the best in outward appearence with the Pony cars with the Mustang versus the Chevy Camaro (proportions all wrong with the Camaro, too high a belt line, car too big) and the Dodge Challenger (too big too, good looking though). The Mustang has the look of the originals with updated safety/performance tweaks. I like the soon to be released Ford Focus ST, neat little car with some cool features for the money. After those two vehicles, nothing strikes me.
      Dodge and Chrysler should get the schizophrenia award for making the best looking pieces of crap. I mean, their cars consistantly rank low in reliablity, not one model but their whole model range. That takes dedication to mediocraty and incompetence. They hang their hat on the Hemi (as well they should, awesome it is) but surround it with half hearted attempts. Hot in the sixties, crap since then. There are tons of Chargers with twenty inch wheels around here so somebody buys them but not me. I think Chrysler/Dodge has a big hill to climb. I see them lower than Hyundai, not saying anything bad about Hyundai with that statement. To the contrary, Hyundai has righted their ship and offer some exciting cars now. They are way ahead of Chrysler/Dodge at this point.
      Last edited by Burnette; 05-21-2012 at 12:11 AM.

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      05-21-2012 12:18 AM #13
      I think it is laughable how some of the TCL members call anyone who dislikes American cars to be euro fanboy's.

      The fact is that many of these said "American" cars are just rebadged European cars, built and designed overseas. Kinda negates most their arguments. A rebadged Opel Astra (Buick Regal) is NOT an American car.
      Last edited by JDBVR6; 05-21-2012 at 12:20 AM.

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      05-21-2012 12:27 AM #14
      Quote Originally Posted by simon_C View Post
      yeah yeah yeah call out the vw guys again.
      Wasn't directed at all vw owners, just dubbers. While you have to own a vw to be a dubber, you aren't necessarily a dubber if you own a vw.

      Also want to point out that I like a few vws. The golf r is rather nice, and I really enjoyed my friends 2012 golf that he purchased recently.

      Sorry for the off track, just wanted to clear up a few things.
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    15. 05-21-2012 12:27 AM #15
      Quote Originally Posted by JDBVR6 View Post
      I think it is laughable how some of the TCL members call anyone who dislikes American cars to be euro fanboy's.

      The fact is that many of these said "American" cars are just rebadged European cars, built and designed overseas. Kinda negates most their arguments. A rebadged Opel Astra (Buick Regal) is NOT an American car.
      That doesn't stop some "European car fans" from disliking the Regal based on it being a Buick .
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      Quote Originally Posted by Fritz27 View Post
      I was more annoyed with the implication of being a Browns fan.

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      05-21-2012 12:29 AM #16
      thats how I think most people feel. And I can understand that when you put out years of garbage, most will be brutal on a product. But like you said, you have noticed a great improvement by all the companies. As enthusiasts, shouldn't we be looking at the product itself rather than the brand?

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      05-21-2012 12:31 AM #17
      I mean a lot of people will agree that some of their interiors are very cheaply made but they build some pretty damn good cars. I miss driving my parents yukon denali. 6.0L V8 vortec engine really packed a punch with a beautiful noise to boot. I'll vouch for it anyday

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      05-21-2012 12:34 AM #18
      Quote Originally Posted by Lwize View Post
      The GTO was an American car?

      I prefer the Euro-designed "American" cars, but still not enough to buy one.
      What company made the Monaro? Holden right? Who owns Holden? GM, an american company.
      Cars are being designed all over the world now. If you're forgetting, we did have the 4 door variant (Commodore) of the Monaro as well, it was just a pretty terrible car.

    19. 05-21-2012 12:43 AM #19
      99% of american cars are inferior to 99% of import cars, someone has to be the worst!

      the only american car ive ever purchased seized its motor at 80k

    20. 05-21-2012 12:56 AM #20
      "How does everyone feel about American car companies and their products" for me encompasess American cars derived from models over seas. It's what you see when you go to the car lot, it's what Ford, Chevy/Buick/Cadillac/GMC, Chrysler/Dodge is trying to sell you today. Here in America.
      And yes, even as an enthusiast, a car company that has tarnished their brand will suffer and rightfully so. Once you get past a basic car for basic transportation you enter into the world of vanity and want. To compete there you have to maintain your image. I mean, when you buy a car most only get to drive it a few miles and read about the car in mags and on the net. Then you hand someone thousands of dollars or agree to pay hundreds a month for a few years. You built crap but I should give you a pass because you came out with a hot car? Enthusiast, connoisseur may do their homework and take a chance on it, but companies make their money on the majority. not us. And the big three have pissed too many of them off. They do have some hits, some good cars, but the auto industry is a gamble. If they don't get it right these next few years they'll be back into trouble. Making news by having your entire product line rate lowest in reliability (Chrysler/Dodge), offering crappy rental fleet interiors (Chevy) and hanging on by a muscle car thread (Ford Mustang). It leaves the door wide open for Toyota/BMW/Subaru/Mercedes/Audi/Volkswagen/Kia/Hyunda/Suzuki/Honda/Nissan.
      Last edited by Burnette; 05-21-2012 at 12:59 AM.

    21. Member dcmix5's Avatar
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      05-21-2012 01:03 AM #21
      Quote Originally Posted by Burnette View Post
      And yes, even as an enthusiast, a car company that has tarnished their brand will suffer and rightfully so. Once you get past a basic car for basic transportation you enter into the world of vanity and want.
      Honda is currently doing the best job of tarnishing their brand. I am not sure if you have walked through a Honda dealer lately, but I am pretty sure a funeral home is more exciting.
      Quote Originally Posted by Hawk View Post
      I'm filming this thread. Just thought I'd let everyone know. I've had some bad experiences with threads in the past.
      Quote Originally Posted by Fritz27 View Post
      I like when dumb people quote mechanical grip as a metric of whether or not a car is fun to drive. It's like saying McDonald's is the best restaurant because you get a lot of calories for your money.

    22. 05-21-2012 01:11 AM #22
      Quote Originally Posted by simon_C View Post
      yeah yeah yeah call out the vw guys again. sure.

      dont forget the huge portion of TCL that has the exact same feeling towards VWs.

      I, for one, dont hate all american cars. There are actually a few that i would rather enjoy.

      g1 camaro, g3 camaro, newer crown vic (manual swapped obv), and a few more i cant currently recall off the top of my head.
      what i AM against, is automatic transmissions and barges, and so many american cars happen to fit into that.

      so yeah, carry on.
      How can you say that some of us on TCL have hard feelings toward VW? Possibly a better or more accurate statement is that those of us on TCL that have owned a VW or better yet have owned more than one VW have especially hard feelings toward VW (and will NEVER) buy a VW again.

      As for GM, post bankruptcy - they certainly seem like a different company. Lots of models that one could certainly live with and a few expecially great one coming soon (Caddy ATS)

    23. 05-21-2012 01:16 AM #23
      You have a point dcmix5. Not sure what Honda is thinking. Other than the Accord their stylistic approach (which honestly has never been great) is lacking. Nothing really draws me to Honda now. And I totally don't get the Acura brand anymore either. Go to an Acura dealer's lot and look across all those ugly front grills on everything. Beautiful interiors though in both Honda and Acura and they still hold a better image in regards to reliability than say Chrysler/Dodge.

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      05-21-2012 01:23 AM #24
      Quote Originally Posted by Burnette View Post
      The Big Three American automakers screwed themselves by offering crap for years. I have family that worked for Chevrolet, so for some strange reason I "pull" for Chevrolet like a sports team with a losing record. Even though other than the 'Vette I wouldn't buy a Chevy. Leaving trucks aside, let's look at the cars. The Lumina, updated Monte Carlo, Cobalt, SS Caprice (oh yes, sporty but ugly land yacth) any Camaro after the seventies, other than the Vette, all crap. How do I feel about them now? Well, I think the new Camaro has the performance but misses in the looks department, so I'll say that's my issue, might be a good car, don't know. After the Camaro and Vette, nothing strikes me a something I would buy. I think Chevy is still lost, cars on the horizon look boring and what is on the lot now doesn't appeal to me.
      I like what Cadillac is doing, the new ATS looks like it may be something I would look at. The CTS V rocks, like it.
      Buick? Well, just the Regal GS. but too many better choices out there for the money, I think Buick is going in the right direction though. Buick scores well in some quality comparison institutions.
      Ford, oh boy, super biased against them at first but now that is gone. They made crap for years too (I was a Ford mechanic during the late eighties, early nineties), Tempo, Escort, never die but crappy to drive Crown Victoria, Taurus (exterior design a hit/advanced, four banger a problem and not fun to drive. The SHO was a torque steer demon, but fun could be had with it) and Thunderbird, crap (I was there when Ford put a tiny four cylinder tirbo in the T-Bird, too much weight for that tiny motor).
      How do I feel about them now. Now, I think that Ford did the best in outward appearence with the Pony cars with the Mustang versus the Chevy Camaro (proportions all wrong with the Camaro, too high a belt line, car too big) and the Dodge Challenger (too big too, good looking though). The Mustang has the look of the originals with updated safety/performance tweaks. I like the soon to be released Ford Focus ST, neat little car with some cool features for the money. After those two vehicles, nothing strikes me.
      Dodge and Chrysler should get the schizophrenia award for making the best looking pieces of crap. I mean, their cars consistantly rank low in reliablity, not one model but their whole model range. That takes dedication to mediocraty and incompetence. They hang their hat on the Hemi (as well they should, awesome it is) but surround it with half hearted attempts. Hot in the sixties, crap since then. There are tons of Chargers with twenty inch wheels around here so somebody buys them but not me. I think Chrysler/Dodge has a big hill to climb. I see them lower than Hyundai, not saying anything bad about Hyundai with that statement. To the contrary, Hyundai has righted their ship and offer some exciting cars now. They are way ahead of Chrysler/Dodge at this point.
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    25. 05-21-2012 04:21 AM #25
      i puke everytime i see an american car on the road. i also eat alot of mc donalds.
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      05-21-2012 05:06 AM #26
      They were on their way back years before the economic meltdown. Their products are looking great now. Okay, Chrysler still has some work to do, but they've already patched their biggest problem.
      Quote Originally Posted by apizzaparty View Post
      never thought once to use my lefty for the brake. sorry in my opinion it is dumb.

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      05-21-2012 08:35 AM #27
      I've only owned American cars. Granted, most weren't built here, and some weren't even designed here, but they had an American badge.

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      05-21-2012 08:49 AM #28
      Quote Originally Posted by Burnette View Post
      The Big Three American automakers screwed themselves by offering crap for years. I have family that worked for Chevrolet, so for some strange reason I "pull" for Chevrolet like a sports team with a losing record. Even though other than the 'Vette I wouldn't buy a Chevy. Leaving trucks aside, let's look at the cars. The Lumina, updated Monte Carlo, Cobalt, SS Caprice (oh yes, sporty but ugly land yacth) any Camaro after the seventies, other than the Vette, all crap. How do I feel about them now? Well, I think the new Camaro has the performance but misses in the looks department, so I'll say that's my issue, might be a good car, don't know. After the Camaro and Vette, nothing strikes me a something I would buy. I think Chevy is still lost, cars on the horizon look boring and what is on the lot now doesn't appeal to me.
      I like what Cadillac is doing, the new ATS looks like it may be something I would look at. The CTS V rocks, like it.
      Buick? Well, just the Regal GS. but too many better choices out there for the money, I think Buick is going in the right direction though. Buick scores well in some quality comparison institutions.
      Ford, oh boy, super biased against them at first but now that is gone. They made crap for years too (I was a Ford mechanic during the late eighties, early nineties), Tempo, Escort, never die but crappy to drive Crown Victoria, Taurus (exterior design a hit/advanced, four banger a problem and not fun to drive. The SHO was a torque steer demon, but fun could be had with it) and Thunderbird, crap (I was there when Ford put a tiny four cylinder tirbo in the T-Bird, too much weight for that tiny motor).
      How do I feel about them now. Now, I think that Ford did the best in outward appearence with the Pony cars with the Mustang versus the Chevy Camaro (proportions all wrong with the Camaro, too high a belt line, car too big) and the Dodge Challenger (too big too, good looking though). The Mustang has the look of the originals with updated safety/performance tweaks. I like the soon to be released Ford Focus ST, neat little car with some cool features for the money. After those two vehicles, nothing strikes me.
      Dodge and Chrysler should get the schizophrenia award for making the best looking pieces of crap. I mean, their cars consistantly rank low in reliablity, not one model but their whole model range. That takes dedication to mediocraty and incompetence. They hang their hat on the Hemi (as well they should, awesome it is) but surround it with half hearted attempts. Hot in the sixties, crap since then. There are tons of Chargers with twenty inch wheels around here so somebody buys them but not me. I think Chrysler/Dodge has a big hill to climb. I see them lower than Hyundai, not saying anything bad about Hyundai with that statement. To the contrary, Hyundai has righted their ship and offer some exciting cars now. They are way ahead of Chrysler/Dodge at this point.

      Anyone else not gonna read that??
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      sprayed it on, waited some time, and proceeded to go at it with a scraper, some pliers, and a lot of f-ing hard work.

    29. 05-21-2012 09:01 AM #29
      Fe203, I guess we have gotten so use to sound bites and instant gratification that we now have no patience for fully thought out opinions.
      To summarize, Big Three made mistakes in the past, some a have some interesting models available some, some makers seem lost.
      How do you feel about American car companies and their products?
      Toi the OP, good topic, interesting responses.

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      05-21-2012 09:08 AM #30
      Quote Originally Posted by invisiblewar View Post
      How does everyone feel about the American Car Companies and their products? I've noticed that lately TCL has been in a circle jerk over how terrible any car under the big 3 is, new or old. Almost every thread discussing an american car leads to everyone trashing it, even if its just over the name of the car.
      Link to any one thread with evidence of this. Even one.

      <--- 10 year TCL veteran who remembers HP/L discussions, "lol, pushrodz," and "Corvettes have leaf springs!"

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      05-21-2012 09:14 AM #31
      My buddy just bought a new 2012 Malibu (not the newest body style). I was really impressed with the overall quality and fit and finish. Pretty much the entire car was built in the US too.

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      05-21-2012 09:17 AM #32
      I was never a fan of American cars. I had Hondas, and Volkswagens almost exclusively, and my toy right now is a Miata.

      I've always liked American trucks - though the Japanese do build a great product.

      However, I got myself a 2011 Ford Fusion after lots of cross-shopping and comparisons and test drives. It may be one of the best cars I've ever owned. Great mileage, amazing build quality, etc. etc. etc. It's everything you would hope the Americans could build.

      I've started shopping Ford products now when looking around at cars, and with the new Malibu (I saw one in person yesterday that looked ok) I may start looking at GM also.

      Still not a ChryCo fan. It will be a little still before I spend hard earned greenbacks on a Chrysler product.
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      05-21-2012 09:23 AM #33
      Quote Originally Posted by JDBVR6 View Post
      A rebadged Opel Astra (Buick Regal) is NOT an American car.
      Heck, it's NOT even an Regal.

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      05-21-2012 09:24 AM #34
      Quote Originally Posted by invisiblewar View Post
      What company made the Monaro? Holden right? Who owns Holden? GM, an american company.
      Cars are being designed all over the world now. If you're forgetting, we did have the 4 door variant (Commodore) of the Monaro as well, it was just a pretty terrible car.
      Holdens designed and engineered in Australia are American cars because GM?
      I love this generation of free thinkers!
      :gift:

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      05-21-2012 09:25 AM #35
      I'm 44, and grew up loving and driving everything American. Any of the Big 3, didn't have a preference. Yet when I look in my driveway right now, I see 3 German cars. The shift didn't happen because of reliability, because my American cars were far more reliable than the German ones have been. For me it was a combination of driving dynamics, ergonomics, and precision...things that were always lacking in my domestic rides.

      That said, the German cars seem to have taken a turn for the worse IMO...really the whole auto industry... toward more and more weight, complexity, features, and just needless complication that I never asked for. The ONLY new car that even remotely interests me right now is the lowly Kia Rio5. I drive a 22 yo Porsche and a 17 yo VW as my daily drivers.

      And coming full circle, the vehicle I'm shopping for right now is an older Wagoneer. Why? Because it is simple, cheap, classic, and does a couple of things really really well.

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