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    Thread: American Cars

    1. Member
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      05-21-2012 05:06 AM #26
      They were on their way back years before the economic meltdown. Their products are looking great now. Okay, Chrysler still has some work to do, but they've already patched their biggest problem.
      Quote Originally Posted by apizzaparty View Post
      never thought once to use my lefty for the brake. sorry in my opinion it is dumb.

    2. Member Egz's Avatar
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      05-21-2012 08:35 AM #27
      I've only owned American cars. Granted, most weren't built here, and some weren't even designed here, but they had an American badge.

    3. Member Fe2O3's Avatar
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      05-21-2012 08:49 AM #28
      Quote Originally Posted by Burnette View Post
      The Big Three American automakers screwed themselves by offering crap for years. I have family that worked for Chevrolet, so for some strange reason I "pull" for Chevrolet like a sports team with a losing record. Even though other than the 'Vette I wouldn't buy a Chevy. Leaving trucks aside, let's look at the cars. The Lumina, updated Monte Carlo, Cobalt, SS Caprice (oh yes, sporty but ugly land yacth) any Camaro after the seventies, other than the Vette, all crap. How do I feel about them now? Well, I think the new Camaro has the performance but misses in the looks department, so I'll say that's my issue, might be a good car, don't know. After the Camaro and Vette, nothing strikes me a something I would buy. I think Chevy is still lost, cars on the horizon look boring and what is on the lot now doesn't appeal to me.
      I like what Cadillac is doing, the new ATS looks like it may be something I would look at. The CTS V rocks, like it.
      Buick? Well, just the Regal GS. but too many better choices out there for the money, I think Buick is going in the right direction though. Buick scores well in some quality comparison institutions.
      Ford, oh boy, super biased against them at first but now that is gone. They made crap for years too (I was a Ford mechanic during the late eighties, early nineties), Tempo, Escort, never die but crappy to drive Crown Victoria, Taurus (exterior design a hit/advanced, four banger a problem and not fun to drive. The SHO was a torque steer demon, but fun could be had with it) and Thunderbird, crap (I was there when Ford put a tiny four cylinder tirbo in the T-Bird, too much weight for that tiny motor).
      How do I feel about them now. Now, I think that Ford did the best in outward appearence with the Pony cars with the Mustang versus the Chevy Camaro (proportions all wrong with the Camaro, too high a belt line, car too big) and the Dodge Challenger (too big too, good looking though). The Mustang has the look of the originals with updated safety/performance tweaks. I like the soon to be released Ford Focus ST, neat little car with some cool features for the money. After those two vehicles, nothing strikes me.
      Dodge and Chrysler should get the schizophrenia award for making the best looking pieces of crap. I mean, their cars consistantly rank low in reliablity, not one model but their whole model range. That takes dedication to mediocraty and incompetence. They hang their hat on the Hemi (as well they should, awesome it is) but surround it with half hearted attempts. Hot in the sixties, crap since then. There are tons of Chargers with twenty inch wheels around here so somebody buys them but not me. I think Chrysler/Dodge has a big hill to climb. I see them lower than Hyundai, not saying anything bad about Hyundai with that statement. To the contrary, Hyundai has righted their ship and offer some exciting cars now. They are way ahead of Chrysler/Dodge at this point.

      Anyone else not gonna read that??
      Quote Originally Posted by phryxis View Post
      sprayed it on, waited some time, and proceeded to go at it with a scraper, some pliers, and a lot of f-ing hard work.

    4. 05-21-2012 09:01 AM #29
      Fe203, I guess we have gotten so use to sound bites and instant gratification that we now have no patience for fully thought out opinions.
      To summarize, Big Three made mistakes in the past, some a have some interesting models available some, some makers seem lost.
      How do you feel about American car companies and their products?
      Toi the OP, good topic, interesting responses.

    5. Member Mike!'s Avatar
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      05-21-2012 09:08 AM #30
      Quote Originally Posted by invisiblewar View Post
      How does everyone feel about the American Car Companies and their products? I've noticed that lately TCL has been in a circle jerk over how terrible any car under the big 3 is, new or old. Almost every thread discussing an american car leads to everyone trashing it, even if its just over the name of the car.
      Link to any one thread with evidence of this. Even one.


    6. Member konkomania's Avatar
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      05-21-2012 09:14 AM #31
      My buddy just bought a new 2012 Malibu (not the newest body style). I was really impressed with the overall quality and fit and finish. Pretty much the entire car was built in the US too.

    7. Member cryption's Avatar
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      05-21-2012 09:17 AM #32
      I was never a fan of American cars. I had Hondas, and Volkswagens almost exclusively, and my toy right now is a Miata.

      I've always liked American trucks - though the Japanese do build a great product.

      However, I got myself a 2011 Ford Fusion after lots of cross-shopping and comparisons and test drives. It may be one of the best cars I've ever owned. Great mileage, amazing build quality, etc. etc. etc. It's everything you would hope the Americans could build.

      I've started shopping Ford products now when looking around at cars, and with the new Malibu (I saw one in person yesterday that looked ok) I may start looking at GM also.

      Still not a ChryCo fan. It will be a little still before I spend hard earned greenbacks on a Chrysler product.
      Team 30k Jetta - Frat Boys

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      05-21-2012 09:23 AM #33
      Quote Originally Posted by JDBVR6 View Post
      A rebadged Opel Astra (Buick Regal) is NOT an American car.
      Heck, it's NOT even an Regal.

    9. Senior Member Lwize's Avatar
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      05-21-2012 09:24 AM #34
      Quote Originally Posted by invisiblewar View Post
      What company made the Monaro? Holden right? Who owns Holden? GM, an american company.
      Cars are being designed all over the world now. If you're forgetting, we did have the 4 door variant (Commodore) of the Monaro as well, it was just a pretty terrible car.
      Holdens designed and engineered in Australia are American cars because GM?
      I love this generation of free thinkers!
      :gift:

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      05-21-2012 09:25 AM #35
      I'm 44, and grew up loving and driving everything American. Any of the Big 3, didn't have a preference. Yet when I look in my driveway right now, I see 3 German cars. The shift didn't happen because of reliability, because my American cars were far more reliable than the German ones have been. For me it was a combination of driving dynamics, ergonomics, and precision...things that were always lacking in my domestic rides.

      That said, the German cars seem to have taken a turn for the worse IMO...really the whole auto industry... toward more and more weight, complexity, features, and just needless complication that I never asked for. The ONLY new car that even remotely interests me right now is the lowly Kia Rio5. I drive a 22 yo Porsche and a 17 yo VW as my daily drivers.

      And coming full circle, the vehicle I'm shopping for right now is an older Wagoneer. Why? Because it is simple, cheap, classic, and does a couple of things really really well.

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      05-21-2012 09:27 AM #36
      Quote Originally Posted by cryption View Post
      I was never a fan of American cars. I had Hondas, and Volkswagens almost exclusively, and my toy right now is a Miata.

      I've always liked American trucks - though the Japanese do build a great product.

      However, I got myself a 2011 Ford Fusion after lots of cross-shopping and comparisons and test drives. It may be one of the best cars I've ever owned. Great mileage, amazing build quality, etc. etc. etc. It's everything you would hope the Americans could build.

      I've started shopping Ford products now when looking around at cars, and with the new Malibu (I saw one in person yesterday that looked ok) I may start looking at GM also.

      Still not a ChryCo fan. It will be a little still before I spend hard earned greenbacks on a Chrysler product.
      An open mind. That's all anybody in Detroit can ask (i.e. Given the mediocre/complacent history of Detroit for the past 4 decades... I can't even justify asking Americans for a second chance. And I work for Detroit, Inc.).

    12. Member volkstyle's Avatar
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      05-21-2012 09:29 AM #37
      To be honest I would buy any new American car/truck right now. I feel like they are putting out good cars for a reasonable price. I still believe that the Germans do it better overall.
      Heart pumping antifreeze as I stand here.

      Lloyd Banks

    13. Member RacingManiac's Avatar
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      05-21-2012 09:39 AM #38
      Quote Originally Posted by JDBVR6 View Post
      I think it is laughable how some of the TCL members call anyone who dislikes American cars to be euro fanboy's.

      The fact is that many of these said "American" cars are just rebadged European cars, built and designed overseas. Kinda negates most their arguments. A rebadged Opel Astra (Buick Regal) is NOT an American car.
      Regal is a Opel Insignia, and its built in Oshawa, Ontario, Canada....

      I don't see how utilizing a company's resources to design cars from elsewhere is an issue....in fact it is probably one of the big 3's problem from before that they didn't do that sooner. After years of half-ass attempt at making sub-par compact when their foreign offices have been making competitive one for years...

    14. 05-21-2012 09:45 AM #39
      I have nothing against American cars and when i was a kid it was always a dream to own one. I prefer American cars made pre 1973. Only owned one American car,that was a 77 Caprice coupe wich i liked,that thing was very comfy and solid as a rock,no trouble at all exept i changed a battery,but it was not a GM battery lol. Let`s just say i did not compare it to an Europen car,i did see it for what it was,a comfy,safe way to travel wide highways with,not chase seconds on the green hell. I`m what you could call a MB fanboy,but i really miss that old Chevy.

      I have little experience with more modern American cars,have only driven a few Tahoe and Suburbans made after 2000. I liked them,felt solid and there was no more cheap plastic inside than you will find inside a BMW e36,wich by the way have horrible interiours if you dont have leather. I would say the worst American cars i have had somthing to do with are the mid 90`s Mopar products.

      Would love to try a Cadillac CST-V or somthing,they both look amazing and goes like stink. Never been a fan of Corvette and the retro flashy Mustangs. So,i have nothing against American cars,even the ****ty models have more soul than the Japanese ever managed,and i like Japanes cars too. That said Europe have made tons of ****boxes upon years.
      89 W201 2.5-16v - 80 Corrolla KE70 wagon - 77 Caprice Coupe.

    15. Member cryption's Avatar
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      05-21-2012 09:47 AM #40
      Quote Originally Posted by uncleho View Post
      An open mind. That's all anybody in Detroit can ask (i.e. Given the mediocre/complacent history of Detroit for the past 4 decades... I can't even justify asking Americans for a second chance. And I work for Detroit, Inc.).
      Detroit is showing that they care again, that's all a consumer can ask
      Team 30k Jetta - Frat Boys

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      05-21-2012 10:16 AM #41
      Quote Originally Posted by Lwize View Post
      Holdens designed and engineered in Australia are American cars because GM?
      I love this generation of free thinkers!
      Exactly because of this, they are making use of their resources.

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      05-21-2012 10:21 AM #42
      my family had a family get together/reunion of sorts yesterday and the question of reliability of foreign vs domestic came up. off the top of my head these are the stats

      cliff notes: foreign had no major issues, domestic did

      land rover disco 250k miles. never a major issue
      2 prius's 175k+ miles. never a major issue
      audi s4 140k miles, eats brakes, otherwise good
      my 89 vw diesel jetta 475k miles. second engine. 1st was fine but i had a lower mileage one so i figured i'd rebuild higher mileage one. no major issues but trunk rust
      toyota t100 300k miles. SO clean. virtually perfect still. just oil and brake jobs.
      bmw z4 120k miles. no major issues.
      mercedes g55 amg. 80k miles. just a tank. uncle says it only needed a $$sensor. mercedes tax?
      honda civic 250k miles. clear coat peeling and thats it!
      thats all foreign i can recall
      cavalier 100k miles. headgasket, alternator, waterpump, alternator again, door needed realignment, couple other silly things
      dodge caliber 30k. alternator, sensors, trans slip, interior trim coming off
      ford f150 100k miles. trans rebuild at 80k, 3 alternators, rust, sensors, fuel injection system needed overhaul, crack in exhaust mani
      dodge diesel 200k miles, 2 engines, 2 trans, turbo rebuild, needs a 3rd heater core
      chrysler cirrus 110k. 2 sunroof motors, broken struts, rust, engine knock
      there were a few more but you get the point

      the preventitive maintenance of each group was polled as well and pretty much all cars got regularly serviced, not just when something major broke

      bottom line is this is completely anecdotal and not much help. all my family who drive domestic howeever plan on buying foriegn next time around.
      Last edited by ienjoysnails; 05-21-2012 at 10:23 AM.

    18. Member Fe2O3's Avatar
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      05-21-2012 10:53 AM #43
      Quote Originally Posted by Burnette View Post
      Fe203, I guess we have gotten so use to sound bites and instant gratification that we now have no patience for fully thought out opinions.
      To summarize, Big Three made mistakes in the past, some a have some interesting models available some, some makers seem lost.
      How do you feel about American car companies and their products?
      Toi the OP, good topic, interesting responses.
      Sorry, guilty as charged
      I acknowledge American cars have made great strides, but so has everyone else. Being one of the many burned in the wallet by previous poor quality and duck-and-cover warranty service, I'll be sticking with Japanese makes until they do me wrong.
      Quote Originally Posted by phryxis View Post
      sprayed it on, waited some time, and proceeded to go at it with a scraper, some pliers, and a lot of f-ing hard work.

    19. Member Chris_V's Avatar
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      05-21-2012 11:04 AM #44
      Quote Originally Posted by Fe2O3 View Post
      Sorry, guilty as charged
      I acknowledge American cars have made great strides, but so has everyone else. Being one of the many burned in the wallet by previous poor quality and duck-and-cover warranty service, I'll be sticking with Japanese makes until they do me wrong.
      I've owned 3 domestic cars new, and never had any warranty problems because none needed any warranty claims (can't say that about my Mini, though the 2 warranty items were dealt with same day). None of my other domestic cars were ever new enough to have a warranty, so I can't comment on what they might have been like.

      What I can comment on is I've owned over 100 cars in the last 30 years, from most major manufacturers around the world, Domestic, Asian, and European, and the fact is, there has been no clear winner in the reliability or cost to own categories. if we add in family and friend's cars, the sample size gets into the few hundred level, again from around the world, and the results are the same.

      I've now owned my Mustang for a year and it's been flawless, and at 52k miles, it's still tight and feels like new.
      I love cars, but the problem is they are like schroedinger's hobby. They're always in a quantum superstate of being both awesome and a huge waste of time and money... until observation momentarily forces them into one state or another.

    20. Member 01tj's Avatar
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      05-21-2012 11:43 AM #45
      I think American cars are coming along. Right now we own a Ford Flex and a Jeep Wrangler and they have both been great. I generally dis-like GM but that is mostly due to the common thinking in my area that GM is the best and everything else is UN-American. I could see myself driving a GTO or a CTS-V though.

    21. Member child_in_time's Avatar
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      05-21-2012 12:54 PM #46
      My only experiance with US cars is my dad's 01 Taurus, 175k miles. The car is absolutely terrible to drive, fit and finish are horrible, engine is an outdated pushrod beast, transmisson can be realy jerky when cold etc, lots of things that say this car is a major pos...However this thing is propably the cheapest car he ever owned, very little maintenance...In general this is how people see american cars, floating boats on 4 wheels slapped together, at least when I was living on the old continent, that was the consesus..Of course you cannnot compare old Taurus to something like CTS-V or even the new Taurus..I guess they are improving every year.

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      05-21-2012 01:22 PM #47
      Quote Originally Posted by JDBVR6 View Post
      I think it is laughable how some of the TCL members call anyone who dislikes American cars to be euro fanboy's.

      The fact is that many of these said "American" cars are just rebadged European cars, built and designed overseas. Kinda negates most their arguments. A rebadged Opel Astra (Buick Regal) is NOT an American car.
      Isn't the Regal built in Ontario now? Isn't Opel owned by GM? So wouldn't that make it American? What makes a car european/american now anyway?

      In today's day and age of technology and globalization, isn't it all just semantics anyway?

      I just asked a lot of questions, but seems like anyone can twist anything to claim the car to be "european" or "american." So what's more important, who owns the company, or where the car is assembled, or does none of this even matter anymore?

    23. Senior Member JustinCSVT's Avatar
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      05-21-2012 01:25 PM #48
      I've had nothing but American cars up until my 335 and will go back once I can afford to.

    24. Member compy222's Avatar
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      05-21-2012 02:04 PM #49
      Quote Originally Posted by sullie View Post
      I've felt for a long time American car companies had lost their way. I bought a brand new Saturn SL2 in '92, then a year later (after it was wrecked) I bought a Ford but after that I really didn't see anything I could warm up to. In the last, say, decade or so I've felt American cars were making a comeback and I voted with my wallet to back up my statement.

      So here's my first American car in 20 years :



      if i was buying american, this is very high on my list.
      Quote Originally Posted by capsaicin View Post
      AP1 S2000? I can not in good conscience talk you out of that. May your slip angle be great and your bed not be the couch!

    25. Member compy222's Avatar
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      05-21-2012 02:05 PM #50
      Quote Originally Posted by child_in_time View Post
      My only experiance with US cars is my dad's 01 Taurus, 175k miles. The car is absolutely terrible to drive, fit and finish are horrible, engine is an outdated pushrod beast, transmisson can be realy jerky when cold etc, lots of things that say this car is a major pos...However this thing is propably the cheapest car he ever owned, very little maintenance...In general this is how people see american cars, floating boats on 4 wheels slapped together, at least when I was living on the old continent, that was the consesus..Of course you cannnot compare old Taurus to something like CTS-V or even the new Taurus..I guess they are improving every year.
      also, comparing a 10 year old beat-up car with 175k+ to a modern/brand-new car is completely ridiculous. check on the new Cruze or Focus and get back to us on the fit/finish and driving dynamics. if i drove a 97 civic with 200k on it, it'd probably be a heap of **** too.
      Quote Originally Posted by capsaicin View Post
      AP1 S2000? I can not in good conscience talk you out of that. May your slip angle be great and your bed not be the couch!

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