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    Thread: Intake or exhaust??

    1. Junior Member
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      05-21-2012 03:44 PM #1
      Im looking at either the banks catback, or the apr carbon intake. Which will give me more noticeable gains?? Or should I put the kabash on both of those and get the bullydog rapid power module???

      HELP!
      Last edited by pigp3n420; 05-21-2012 at 03:58 PM.

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      05-21-2012 03:53 PM #2
      Quote Originally Posted by pigp3n420 View Post
      Im looking at either the banks catback, or the apr carbon intake. Which will give me more noticeable gains??
      Neither produces any performance gains on a stock car. As an added bonus, the Banks cat-back rattles. If you want performance, spend the money towards a tune.

    3. Junior Member
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      05-21-2012 03:59 PM #3
      Toe, I saw on another site you have the banks. Do you not like the sound?? Would I be better just hacking the muffler and straight piping it? The reason Im considering the Bully Dog kit is its plug and play, can pull off for warranty work and throw it right back on. (until i can get a tune, 36,000 here i come =X )
      Last edited by pigp3n420; 05-21-2012 at 04:01 PM.

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      05-21-2012 04:18 PM #4
      Quote Originally Posted by pigp3n420 View Post
      Toe, I saw on another site you have the banks. Do you not like the sound?? Would I be better just hacking the muffler and straight piping it? The reason Im considering the Bully Dog kit is its plug and play, can pull off for warranty work and throw it right back on. (until i can get a tune, 36,000 here i come =X )
      Nope, I'll be pulling mine off in the not too distant future, so if you wanna cover shipping, you can have it. I'll be switching over to the Borla. Either way, your question was which will give more noticable gains, and the answer is neither will produce any gains, noticeable or otherwise because your limiting factor is the DPF. While that's in place, any other air flow modifications are pointless. My advice was therefore to save your money and get a tune. Also, talk to APR about preserving warranty with their tunes. I think they have something worked out with VW for that. That way you don't have to wait for 36k.
      Last edited by ToeBall; 05-21-2012 at 04:23 PM.

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      05-21-2012 04:40 PM #5
      @Toe PM sent.

    6. Geriatric Member rootrider's Avatar
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      05-22-2012 12:48 AM #6
      You don't say what engine, but from comments it sounds like you have a tdi?

      No exhaust will do anything for a tdi until the dpf is removed. You will get no sound change and no power chamge. You'll save weight and have better looking tips.

      An intake will be useless for the majority of drivers as well. Even with tracking my car I'm seriously unsure whether I'll need an intake.

      Your best bet for power is getting software. If you can remove the dpf then do that.. there's virtually no negative to doing so (imo) and then you do gain something from having an exhaust.. and even then you may not get anything from an intake
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      05-22-2012 04:38 PM #7
      Sorry, im a noob :X 2012 DSG TDI. The power kit from bully seems to be the best bang for my buck, and I like that its easily removable and no worry about the dealership flashing my ecu. Thoughts?? Anyone heard anything bad about the bully dog kit?

    8. Geriatric Member rootrider's Avatar
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      05-23-2012 05:56 AM #8
      that's an add-on right? ie. it plugs into the car. If so... our ECU's are learning, and they will eventually adapt. You have to actually update the software to make the car faster. Go with Revo, Malone, or Unitronic.. you won't regret it.
      PNWfahren - Pacific Northwest Regional Car Enthusiast Forum Community
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    9. Member billy2.0's Avatar
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      05-23-2012 01:17 PM #9
      An exhaust and intake may not give you large hp/tq increases, but you will make it easier for air to flow through the engine (after all, an engine is technically an air pump). This will allow the engine to run more freely, and also improve throttle response. You'll notice when you hit the throttle, the car engine responds quicker.

      Also, in regards to the problems ToeBall had with the Banks exhaust, they've made changes to the system to resolve the issues with the rattling. Toeball, have you contacted Banks Tech Support to see about getting it replaced with the newer setup?

      And me personally, I would do airflow modifications to the engine before a power adding module. Your engine will thank you for it in the long run.
      Quote Originally Posted by Abraham Lincoln
      The trouble with quotes on the Internet is that you never know if they are genuine.

    10. Member nikhsub1's Avatar
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      05-23-2012 01:46 PM #10
      Quote Originally Posted by billy2.0 View Post
      An exhaust and intake may not give you large hp/tq increases, but you will make it easier for air to flow through the engine (after all, an engine is technically an air pump). This will allow the engine to run more freely, and also improve throttle response. You'll notice when you hit the throttle, the car engine responds quicker.

      Also, in regards to the problems ToeBall had with the Banks exhaust, they've made changes to the system to resolve the issues with the rattling. Toeball, have you contacted Banks Tech Support to see about getting it replaced with the newer setup?

      And me personally, I would do airflow modifications to the engine before a power adding module. Your engine will thank you for it in the long run.
      Not in a CR TDI it won't... I guess you don't know about the dpf which is right after the turbo. You can run a straight pipe after the dpf and it will make about zero difference.

    11. Member billy2.0's Avatar
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      05-23-2012 01:54 PM #11
      Quote Originally Posted by nikhsub1 View Post
      Not in a CR TDI it won't... I guess you don't know about the dpf which is right after the turbo. You can run a straight pipe after the dpf and it will make about zero difference.
      True, the DPF is a huge restriction. However, the intake and muffler are still extra restriction on top of that. If you improve both of them, there will be a difference.
      Quote Originally Posted by Abraham Lincoln
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    12. Member nikhsub1's Avatar
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      05-23-2012 02:13 PM #12
      Quote Originally Posted by billy2.0 View Post
      True, the DPF is a huge restriction. However, the intake and muffler are still extra restriction on top of that. If you improve both of them, there will be a difference.
      I guess we'll agree to disagree.

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      05-23-2012 07:50 PM #13
      Quote Originally Posted by billy2.0 View Post
      True, the DPF is a huge restriction. However, the intake and muffler are still extra restriction on top of that. If you improve both of them, there will be a difference.
      I thought the same thing, but after having fixed 4 CR TDI's, I can honestly tell you, they don't make any difference at all with the DPF in place. Here's a coped apart DPF.



      This is with soot loading, obviously, but it doesn't mater if you open the exhaust to atmosphere behind this, it'll still act like an orifice tube and prevent any gains at all.
      Last edited by ToeBall; 05-23-2012 at 07:55 PM.

    14. Member billy2.0's Avatar
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      05-24-2012 12:22 PM #14
      That DPF is definitely ridiculous!

      With that said, I still recommend an intake. Regardless of the exhaust restrictions, an intake will still reduce pumping loss during the intake stroke while expending less energy to do so.
      Quote Originally Posted by Abraham Lincoln
      The trouble with quotes on the Internet is that you never know if they are genuine.

    15. Geriatric Member rootrider's Avatar
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      05-24-2012 02:47 PM #15
      Quote Originally Posted by billy2.0 View Post
      That DPF is definitely ridiculous!

      With that said, I still recommend an intake. Regardless of the exhaust restrictions, an intake will still reduce pumping loss during the intake stroke while expending less energy to do so.
      APR is the only company that can prove any "real" gains with an intake that is actually available for the US CR TDI, and even then the minuscule difference is only tested on a 2.0t engine (afaik). Most people will have zero reason to need those minor gains unless they're seriously working toward a stage 2 or better level of performance. Even at that level.. there's just no proof that any noticeable gains exist.

      You're talking about a lot of theory.. and it makes sense. What you're saying hasn't been wrong. It's just not real world with these cars.

      The best thing you can do for power gains, besides removing the DPF, is to flash the ECU with upgraded software. That's it. The rest of the car's easy gains can be found in handling, braking, grip, and the driver.. and trust me when I say that the car has plenty to gain and plenty to show for itself once you get there.
      Last edited by rootrider; 05-24-2012 at 02:49 PM.
      PNWfahren - Pacific Northwest Regional Car Enthusiast Forum Community
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    16. Member nikhsub1's Avatar
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      05-24-2012 05:13 PM #16
      Quote Originally Posted by rootrider View Post
      APR is the only company that can prove any "real" gains with an intake that is actually available for the US CR TDI, and even then the minuscule difference is only tested on a 2.0t engine (afaik). Most people will have zero reason to need those minor gains unless they're seriously working toward a stage 2 or better level of performance. Even at that level.. there's just no proof that any noticeable gains exist.

      You're talking about a lot of theory.. and it makes sense. What you're saying hasn't been wrong. It's just not real world with these cars.

      The best thing you can do for power gains, besides removing the DPF, is to flash the ECU with upgraded software. That's it. The rest of the car's easy gains can be found in handling, braking, grip, and the driver.. and trust me when I say that the car has plenty to gain and plenty to show for itself once you get there.
      True story. Doesn't APR's intake use an oiled filter? I vowed never to run oiled ever again.

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      05-24-2012 05:15 PM #17
      Quote Originally Posted by billy2.0 View Post
      With that said, I still recommend an intake. Regardless of the exhaust restrictions, an intake will still reduce pumping loss during the intake stroke while expending less energy to do so.
      I'm telling you, I've got all of the above and it makes no difference. I've done the data logging to prove it. The turbo still connects the intake to the exhaust and a restriction in one restricts the other. Don't spend $300 on an intake/exhaust that will not show any gains when for a bit more you can get a tune that will get you 45hp and 110 ft lbs. It doesn't make sense.

    18. Geriatric Member rootrider's Avatar
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      05-24-2012 06:48 PM #18
      Quote Originally Posted by nikhsub1 View Post
      True story. Doesn't APR's intake use an oiled filter? I vowed never to run oiled ever again.
      it does.. but they say that a dry one could be used as well. Someone just needs to find a good dry filter that fits the same way..
      PNWfahren - Pacific Northwest Regional Car Enthusiast Forum Community
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    19. Member CRJSW's Avatar
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      05-24-2012 10:56 PM #19
      On a N/A car I say it free up the stroke of the piston but on a turbo'd I dont see that.
      Although you could look at the intake as performance gain in respect to cleaner exhaust and this leads to less gunk circulating back through your EGR system and cleaner intake manifold

      Anyway you look at it though the more free the engine breathes the more efficient it will be.

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      05-27-2012 02:10 PM #20
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