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    Thread: Brake Bias

    1. Member Light on Fuel's Avatar
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      07-11-2012 11:30 PM #36
      Quote Originally Posted by babarber View Post
      im running stock brake setup with oreilly's 20$ pads i want to upgrade the pads but the courses we run on are sealed asphalt and is very slick as far as track surfaces go so even with my star spec tires brakes keep up with the tires grip
      Wow, stock? I don't think I can continue to run stock. It seems that I have to get hard on the brakes and for a very long time whereas other cars only need to quickly jab the brakes on the very same turn. I was told that it may be because the car is so nosy-heavy (VR6).


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    2. Member babarber's Avatar
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      07-13-2012 08:52 PM #37
      my car is one of the lightest mkIV the 1.8t wolfsburg edition plus i removed some weight and its now floating around 2800lbs so that may help but like i said the surfaces we run on aren't exactly idea
      Quote Originally Posted by G3T3I7 View Post
      because race springs
      Quote Originally Posted by Vegeta Gti View Post
      i love sacks
      Quote Originally Posted by bryangb View Post
      TCL isn't car enthusiasts. It's a forum for 40 year old guys to brag about their 2007 Hyundai Sonata. And to talk meaningless sh*t on anything VW

    3. Member Light on Fuel's Avatar
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      07-26-2012 11:16 PM #38
      I have an event coming up this Sunday: My first in over a month after breaking my foot. I'm going to try all that was suggested on here. Thanks so much for the input.


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    4. Member Roadkilled78's Avatar
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      07-27-2012 12:20 PM #39
      Quote Originally Posted by Light on Fuel View Post
      It seems that I have to get hard on the brakes and for a very long time whereas other cars only need to quickly jab the brakes on the very same turn. I was told that it may be because the car is so nosy-heavy (VR6).


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      Have you stood on the brakes hard enough to activate ABS/lock the wheels? If not, have you had an instructor drive the car or did one ride with you during the school?

      Threshold braking is a much, much more rapid deceleration than you are used to on the street. A couple of new people I have instructed and one friend who was bedding in pads required a fair amount of urging to get beyond what they considered 'hard' braking that was actually quite mild for an autocross situation.
      Quote Originally Posted by Hogan View Post
      What kind of ass backwards world do you live in where your Miata is broken and your Alfa is your reliable source of transportation?

    5. Member Light on Fuel's Avatar
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      07-27-2012 02:00 PM #40
      I did have an instructor with me during a few of my first runs, but he focused more on my steering input than anything else.

      To be honest, I didn't get into the ABS at all. So now that you mention that, it's something that I really should've kept in mind: In retrospect, it'll probably shorten my braking distance significantly. I've read about threshold braking but I never thought to apply it in an autoX situation. But it makes perfect sense. Rookie mistake I guess. I will definitely keep that at the forefront of my mind while walking/driving the course. Thanks so much!


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      Last edited by Light on Fuel; 07-27-2012 at 02:02 PM.

    6. Member Roadkilled78's Avatar
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      07-27-2012 03:17 PM #41
      Quote Originally Posted by Light on Fuel View Post
      I will definitely keep that at the forefront of my mind while walking/driving the course. Thanks so much!


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      Along with that, the bigger picture to keep in mind is that - at least in principle - you should be either hard on the gas or hard on the brake. Coasting accomplishes nothing. Leisurely braking is about the same thing, just a waste of time. You could have waited longer to brake, and then done so more aggressively.

      Full disclosure: after doing this for years and years, I still have trouble doing what I said above And if I suddenly drop time on my last run its almost always because I realized I could brake later but harder. And of course there are times where coasting or part throttle is appropriate. But not as often as most people do it, myself included.

      Don't be afraid to activate ABS as you learn your braking limits. It's much less costly of a mistake than locking up r-comps and flat-spotting them.
      Quote Originally Posted by Hogan View Post
      What kind of ass backwards world do you live in where your Miata is broken and your Alfa is your reliable source of transportation?

    7. Member Light on Fuel's Avatar
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      07-28-2012 10:16 AM #42
      Quote Originally Posted by Roadkilled78 View Post
      Along with that, the bigger picture to keep in mind is that - at least in principle - you should be either hard on the gas or hard on the brake. Coasting accomplishes nothing. Leisurely braking is about the same thing, just a waste of time. You could have waited longer to brake, and then done so more aggressively.

      Full disclosure: after doing this for years and years, I still have trouble doing what I said above And if I suddenly drop time on my last run its almost always because I realized I could brake later but harder. And of course there are times where coasting or part throttle is appropriate. But not as often as most people do it, myself included.

      Don't be afraid to activate ABS as you learn your braking limits. It's much less costly of a mistake than locking up r-comps and flat-spotting them.
      I was just looking over some of the previous runs that I recorded and I can see some sections where I did coast to line myself up for the following section. I also noticed areas where I could have done as mentioned and get into the braking up to the ABS. So I know I have some work to do. The tough part is that I want far off from jumping from 3rd place (where I finished out the day) to first place. Now granted, the guys in 1st & 2nd were running on slicks, but I think if I had done as recommended, I could have closed that gap significantly. But, there is always tomorrow to try it out. I'm not beating myself up to much considering that it was only my 4th event an those other guys, including the ones I beat, have been autoX'ing for several years a piece. Thanks again. I'll post my (hopefully good) results after tomorrow. I only wish that Tap-a-Talk would let me post videos for some more critiquing.


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      07-31-2012 03:43 PM #43
      So I ran the event and it went really well. The only unfortunate part is that there was only one spot to try threshold braking. PCA events, I've noticed, usually sets up long, sweeping courses.

      Either way, I got the rear to rotate really well an I was able to beat all the other GTi's and my cousin's 3.8l Genesis Coupe.

      I'm away for August, but I'll be running again in Sept and will most likely have new questions. Thanks to all who gave valuable input, it was greatly appreciated.


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      08-18-2012 06:36 PM #44
      Anyone have any suggestions on how stiff I should set the dampers up front? I have an event tomorrow so any help would be greatly appreciated.


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    10. Member babarber's Avatar
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      08-19-2012 12:31 AM #45
      what shocks what springs?
      Quote Originally Posted by G3T3I7 View Post
      because race springs
      Quote Originally Posted by Vegeta Gti View Post
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      Quote Originally Posted by bryangb View Post
      TCL isn't car enthusiasts. It's a forum for 40 year old guys to brag about their 2007 Hyundai Sonata. And to talk meaningless sh*t on anything VW

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      08-19-2012 01:10 AM #46
      Quote Originally Posted by babarber View Post
      what shocks what springs?
      Koni coilovers (1150's). I've been running with both front and rear at full. I'm wondering if I should dial down the stiffness at the front.


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    12. Member babarber's Avatar
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      08-21-2012 09:06 PM #47
      Quote Originally Posted by Light on Fuel View Post
      Koni coilovers (1150's). I've been running with both front and rear at full. I'm wondering if I should dial down the stiffness at the front.


      \X/
      that would depend on behavior on turn in does it feel like the car is loosing grip at the front too soon?
      Quote Originally Posted by G3T3I7 View Post
      because race springs
      Quote Originally Posted by Vegeta Gti View Post
      i love sacks
      Quote Originally Posted by bryangb View Post
      TCL isn't car enthusiasts. It's a forum for 40 year old guys to brag about their 2007 Hyundai Sonata. And to talk meaningless sh*t on anything VW

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      08-23-2012 08:44 AM #48
      Quote Originally Posted by babarber View Post
      that would depend on behavior on turn in does it feel like the car is loosing grip at the front too soon?
      Turn in was crisp. It didn't loose grip too soon but it was understeering starting at the apex and through the exit on long (fish hook, type) turns.

      I had the fronts set 1/2 a turn below full stiff. Would further lowering stiffness at the front reduce some of that mid corner understeer?

      I also noticed that the temps on my front tires were way hotter on the inside shoulders than the middle and outer shoulders. I have a suspicion that the place that did my alignment screwed up. I think they may have set the toe too far out or dialed in too much neg. camber. Would either play that much of a significant role in the mid/exit understeer.
      Thanks again.


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    14. Member babarber's Avatar
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      08-23-2012 02:54 PM #49
      shock settings have very little to do with mid corner behavior look elsewhere for a solution to your problem
      Quote Originally Posted by G3T3I7 View Post
      because race springs
      Quote Originally Posted by Vegeta Gti View Post
      i love sacks
      Quote Originally Posted by bryangb View Post
      TCL isn't car enthusiasts. It's a forum for 40 year old guys to brag about their 2007 Hyundai Sonata. And to talk meaningless sh*t on anything VW

    15. Member Light on Fuel's Avatar
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      09-30-2012 11:49 AM #50
      Quote Originally Posted by babarber View Post
      shock settings have very little to do with mid corner behavior look elsewhere for a solution to your problem
      After doing some more investigation, I realized that it was my ride height that was causing me to understeer.

      At an event, I noticed that my inside shoulders were getting too hot (20* more than outsides). I also noticed that even at 50psi, my front tires were rolling. I looked at my LCA's and realized that they had a major angle to them (car set too low). I (foolishly) didn't check the work of the people who performed my alignment and were suppossed to adjust the ride height. They had the car too low which was causing me to run out of suspension travel and roll my front tires. Since then, I've raised the ride height and am now trying to dial in the suspension.


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    16. 10-05-2012 10:28 PM #51
      As you've probably noticed, changing ride height impacted camper and toe also.

      My suggestion is to set the ride height yourself then do a proper alignment. As I've said before, any local shop can set camber and toe to "specs" but my suggestion is to ask around at your next event and find out where the experienced auto-x guys have their alignments done. They will likely recommend someone who is a bit more expensive but it will be worth every extra cent.

      Having the right equipment for a proper alignment is only 1/2 the equation, knowing how use the equipment is the real key.

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      10-08-2012 11:45 AM #52
      Last edited by Light on Fuel; 11-16-2012 at 03:27 PM.

    18. Member Light on Fuel's Avatar
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      10-08-2012 12:06 PM #53
      I've raised the ride height and have found a shop that all the instructors use. Turns out that they're much cheaper than this other shop I've used in the past. They'll align my car with me in it and also corner weight it. I have a tough choice to make this weekend: Either go racing or get my alignment done. Even though its not ideal, I may just end up going to the event. The season's almost over so I want to try and hit the remaining few events.


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