MKV ESP ON or OFF???

[firstorbit84]

So, I took my Mk5 Jetta Wolfsburg out to its third auto-x this weekend, and I eeked out a win vs a 2010 mustang v6 in G Stock....



Since I'm still kinda experimenting and getting to know the car, I did my first lap with ESP on, then turned it off for laps 2 and 3, and although they were close, neither of the successive laps were faster than the first...

Funny thing was that for laps 4-6, I left ESP on and my times got consistently quicker. I have a fair bit of auto-x experience, with about 2-3 dozen events in the last 4-5 years.

Later I was reading in the owners manual about all the fancy things that ESP does to keep you going the direction that you want to go, and I could definitely feel it doing those things during the race, like applying the brake on the inside wheel to correct your trajectory in a corner slide.

Anyone else have a similar experience where they were faster with traction control on??

[SpecialFX]

My GTI falls flat on it's face coming out of corners with ESP on. I've only used it (accidentally) at an autocross school that wasn't running timing, but I'd say a good 2 seconds difference or more. If you have any wheel spin coming out of corners it cuts power until you get traction and just bogs you way down and you lose all your momentum.

While I obviously wasn't there when you ran, I very seriously doubt traction control was the difference. Sounds more like some other type of issue or weird random chance. I'd be very surprised if anyone else has had similar experiences in an MKV

[Ian F]

I've only ever run with it off (ESP in my TDI and DSC in the MINI Cooper). Whenever I forgot to turn it off, I was slower.

However, a couple of National caliber H-Stock MINI drivers ran with it on. Basically because if you drove correctly, it would do what you said and you would be faster, but if you drove incorrectly, it would bog the car down. Granted, they were on A6's and I was on crappy street tires, so if they got into a situation where the tires were losing traction, then they were over-driving and the DSC intervening was a sign. On street tires, grip tends to be a tad more... transient... so I'm not sure if the same applies. Plus, I'd like to think VW will improve the ESP programming from one model to the next. If I ever go back to running the TDI and move to A6's, then I probably would try runs with ESP on a few times.

Regardless of auto-x, I personally can't stand the ESP in my TDI and consider it $250 wasted. Not only for auto-x but driving in the snow as well. In sketchy traction conditions, it acts unpredictably since I tend to drive in the snow with the car sliding a bit and the ESP doesn't allow me to do that. Fortunately, in a Mk IV, off means OFF and the car does what I want it to.

[firstorbit84]

Yeah, it does limit the power but also does many other things that are described in the owners manual. I think that VW improved it quite a bit from the earlier mkv.

I also think that it may be masking some diver error, and that a much better diver could make use of the extra power by limiting their own wheel spin. But for me now, it seems to be helping more than hindering.

My mkiv TDI didn't come with ESP and I never missed it, but eventually added a LSD, which I feel that the mkv desperately needs.

[Ian F]

I think the difference between street tires and R-comps makes a difference. On street tires, the sound of the tires starting to break traction is an indicator of reaching the tire's traction limit. Unfortunately, in the MkIV and the MINI, that was also about when the traction control would kick in. I've never run r-comps, but I understand the traction to be more "on-off" with tons of grip and then none at all with little warning. I could see how letting the computer intervene may be helpful with the latter.

At least that's my hypothesis. Somebody give me a set of 225/45-15 A6's so I can test it out.

[firstorbit84]

i ran a couple sets of r-comps on my mk4 (hoosier r6 and toyo proxes) and they are very on/off, but the level of grip before you get to "off" is amazing, all you have to do to regain traction in most cases is just let up a bit on whatever you were doing (steering angle or throttle) and youre in the grip again

i definitely dont think i'd be faster with esp on r-comps, but i'll give it a try once i get a set

[Ian F]

Ok. I think DSC-on works in MINI's because they can left-foot brake - they'll keep the right foot on the floor and use the left foot and the DSC to control speed/throttle. Unfortunately, the brake-throttle cut-out on a VW might make that unworkable.