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    Thread: ITB super high idle, MS2 Inside

    1. 05-23-2012 10:09 AM #1
      So, I just put the OBX ITB on my 82 rabbit, ABA. With the Vacuum connected to the MAP sensor it Idles at 3500RPM, with it disconnected it runs at approx 1200, which is fine by me, can someone look at my settings (MSQ file) and see what I may be missing? It has been a while since I have had to tweak anything and am kindof stumped. I am using factory TPS, GM CTS and factory CKP.
      Last edited by ojeeztutone; 06-13-2012 at 08:06 PM.

    2. Member ps2375's Avatar
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      05-23-2012 10:15 AM #2
      seems you need to retune, what was on it before those ITB's? You may need to switch from speed-density to alpha-n for tuning. Who tuned the prior setup?
      Tradition is the art of making the same mistake repeatedly, on purpose.

    3. 05-23-2012 10:56 AM #3
      I set it up previously, 3 years ago, stock intake mani, custom piping and cone filter. I will take a peek at my fuel metering settings, can I send you my file to see if I have something stupid turned on that should be off?

    4. Member ps2375's Avatar
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      05-23-2012 11:06 AM #4
      Sure, but you do know that the kPa range on a motor w/ ITB's is generally much narrower than the same motor w/ a manifold with a common TB. Meaning it will be harder to tune with the speed-density settings and will need the switch to alpha-n. MS2 may have some other features to make this easier.

      PM sent.
      Last edited by ps2375; 05-23-2012 at 11:13 AM.
      Tradition is the art of making the same mistake repeatedly, on purpose.

    5. 05-23-2012 01:42 PM #5
      Awesome, PM responded. Emailed attachment.

    6. Member ps2375's Avatar
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      05-23-2012 06:14 PM #6
      if you stay speed-density or go alpha-n, you will have to rebuild your tables, as in change the range of the kPa(for speed-density) or switch them to Throttle ADC (for alpha-n). And change the "# of squirts per cycle" to 1 from 4 since you have all the injectors on one bank.(If I am wrong, someone please correct me.)

      Then you will have to re-tune the tables. Start with getting the idle good and go from there. It might be beneficial to maybe get a sync tool to ensure each TB is pulling the same amount of air. We never got that far with our ITB build.
      Tradition is the art of making the same mistake repeatedly, on purpose.

    7. 05-27-2012 01:41 PM #7
      So, I can't use Alpha-n unless I have a functional TPS then correct? Mine binds because the throttle sensor hookup on these ITB's does not fit properly so I had to make a bracket, and I think it is slightly off center, causing the throttle to not return properly and have excessive pull on the cable.

    8. Member Prof315's Avatar
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      05-27-2012 01:50 PM #8
      Quote Originally Posted by ps2375 View Post
      And change the "# of squirts per cycle" to 1 from 4 since you have all the injectors on one bank.(If I am wrong, someone please correct me.)
      You're wrong . Leave it at 1 squirt.
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    9. Member Prof315's Avatar
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      05-27-2012 01:54 PM #9
      The biggest deal when tuning ITB's for me is getting them properly balanced. Proper balance is critical to a decent idle. Actually a proper balance is critical to good drivability period.
      The Professor
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    10. Member ps2375's Avatar
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      05-28-2012 12:58 AM #10
      Quote Originally Posted by Prof315 View Post
      You're wrong . Leave it at 1 squirt.
      If you read that, that is what I told him to do, as he currently has it set for 4 squirts per cycle.
      Tradition is the art of making the same mistake repeatedly, on purpose.

    11. Member Prof315's Avatar
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      05-28-2012 06:44 AM #11
      Quote Originally Posted by ps2375 View Post
      If you read that, that is what I told him to do, as he currently has it set for 4 squirts per cycle.
      Well that's what I get for replying while not yet fully awake!
      The Professor
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    12. 06-13-2012 12:06 AM #12
      More bs. I got my POS running and Idling ok, took it on a 4 mile test drive, got back, shut car off, would not restart and lost comm with the ECU. Verified power and ground, I can't get it to respond. Any idea where to start? This is really pssing me off, it's summer dammit!

    13. 06-13-2012 04:42 PM #13
      Are you running direct coil control? if so, how many grounds from the ECU do you have?
      Up and Atom!

    14. 06-13-2012 08:04 PM #14
      I am running the bip373 coil setup, for fielding one ABA OE coil. I have all the grounds atttached to one lug, body grounded. I hooked my Stim up for S&Gs and still have no communication, the Laptop sees that there is a connection, but will not communicate still...



    15. 06-13-2012 08:46 PM #15
      How many black wires are coming out of the harness? I didn't have a ground on 1,3,4,5. and blew the com board.
      Up and Atom!

    16. 06-13-2012 10:07 PM #16
      6 ground wires. I bought the ECU and harness from DIYautotune How would I determine if my comm is bad then

    17. 06-13-2012 11:02 PM #17
      Ok guys, I may have gotten it fingered out, I ultimately removed the ECU, powered it up inside, fnally got it to write firmware after like three tries, I upgraded to the latest release. Updated Tunerstudio INI file yada yada. It shows up on my tuner studio now with all wrong values as it is just beng powered by the stim, but it is communicating, that was the hard part. Now I have to rewire several connectors that I pulled apart to check for poor connections, such as the CKP..

      Ultimately, could the firmware have gotten corrupted by something like a power spike hooking up the battery if the key was rolled forward?

      I am now basically looking to put logic to the cause of the problem, the loss of com. I am hoping that can prove to be the explanation as I have no other ideas for it once I get my wires reassembled.

    18. Geriatric Member need_a_VR6's Avatar
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      06-14-2012 09:25 AM #18
      The only time I have seem firmware problems is if it's supplied with low voltage, either on key on or crank.

      If you want to keep most of your tune, power up use the current controller version, then load your msq over it. Accept errors and then go through the msq from there.
      -Paul
      1995 GTI VR6 - Retired - 12.90@106 R32 power - 12.833@106 12v power
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    19. 06-14-2012 09:41 AM #19
      When you get back to the idle issue start with these questions:

      Do you have a common collector for vacuum sampling from each cylinder? Running speed density on itb's is a no-no for most setups. The vacuum swings of being so close in physical proximity to atmosphere are huge which would have you jumping back and forth on for fuel VE1 and ignition map. You want to read the TPS as primary.
      Bumblebee Tuna

    20. 06-14-2012 11:39 AM #20
      Low voltage is also very possible, I have a small motorsport battery, I may have been partially discharged. It has a vacuum rail yes, and Thanks Paul, I will give that a shot as well. Hopefully will have results after work tonight.

    21. Geriatric Member need_a_VR6's Avatar
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      06-14-2012 01:26 PM #21
      Ditto on tps load.

      Another idle tip, lock timing at a fixed value and tune fuel around idle then un-fix it and smooth timing in the same area.
      -Paul
      1995 GTI VR6 - Retired - 12.90@106 R32 power - 12.833@106 12v power
      KPTuned - Official MegaSquirt: Sales - Repair - Installation - Tuning
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    22. 06-14-2012 08:01 PM #22
      Well, I upgraded the firmware to 2.9something, and now none of my settings will cross over, what is the easiest way to look them back up and enter them again?

    23. Geriatric Member need_a_VR6's Avatar
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      06-14-2012 09:38 PM #23
      Open your old msq offline, export all the tables. Go through the msq from scratch for the rest.
      -Paul
      1995 GTI VR6 - Retired - 12.90@106 R32 power - 12.833@106 12v power
      KPTuned - Official MegaSquirt: Sales - Repair - Installation - Tuning
      MK3 Race Car Partout

    24. 06-14-2012 09:55 PM #24
      I think i got most of the crap switched over, however the CKP is reading 5k at cranking speed and bouncing around.

    25. 06-14-2012 10:43 PM #25
      Trigger settings

      -Andrew
      Bumblebee Tuna

    26. 06-14-2012 11:01 PM #26
      I understand that, however, I set all the values in the newer setup of tuner studio and it doesnt have the same options for settings.

    27. 06-14-2012 11:08 PM #27

    28. 06-14-2012 11:20 PM #28
      Post a screen shot of your old trigger settings?
      Bumblebee Tuna

    29. 06-15-2012 07:49 AM #29
      Should I have any trigger offset on a standard ABA 60-2 tooth wheel? I am thinking my crank sensor may have gone out, causing a large portion of this headache. I will test with a scope this evening. And have a G28 sensor on hand if that is the case. However it is off to work I go for now. I

    30. Geriatric Member need_a_VR6's Avatar
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      06-15-2012 09:13 AM #30
      No offset on crank trigger. 60 teeth, 2 missing, 78deg tooth1 angle should be it.

      Also, what firmware is that, it doesn't look familiar.
      -Paul
      1995 GTI VR6 - Retired - 12.90@106 R32 power - 12.833@106 12v power
      KPTuned - Official MegaSquirt: Sales - Repair - Installation - Tuning
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    31. 06-15-2012 09:35 AM #31
      That's what I thought, And It is 2.90500 Not familiar to me either. Maybe I need to get different firmware on it? I dunno.

    32. 06-15-2012 09:46 AM #32
      Yes, go with newest firmware release found on http://www.msextra.com
      Bumblebee Tuna

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      06-15-2012 09:53 AM #33
      Ah 2.9x is ms2 B&G code. Use /Extra
      -Paul
      1995 GTI VR6 - Retired - 12.90@106 R32 power - 12.833@106 12v power
      KPTuned - Official MegaSquirt: Sales - Repair - Installation - Tuning
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    34. 06-15-2012 11:30 AM #34
      I love you guys. Will post results tonight around 730 hopefully.

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      06-15-2012 12:54 PM #35
      Quote Originally Posted by ps2375 View Post
      Sure, but you do know that the kPa range on a motor w/ ITB's is generally much narrower than the same motor w/ a manifold with a common TB. Meaning it will be harder to tune with the speed-density settings and will need the switch to alpha-n.
      i had good luck tuning an AE86 with 20v throttle bodies on S-D... it ran a bit richer than needed at part throttle but idle and full load were excellent.
      could be worth a shot to at least try, its easy enough to change the tune.

      that particular setup was on a rally car though, so they werent trying to drive it at part throttle for more than a few minutes to move out of the pits...

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