As more and more come out on the street, aftermarket companies will figure all this out for us. So far it seems like the is just springs/shocks. If that's the case, you don't really need to know the technical differences, you just need to buy the springs and shocks from an FR-S owner who moved to coil overs.
I, for one, am paying very close attention to what RaceComp Engineering is doing. They already have springs made that work very well with the car, according to them..
As for the GC, obviously it finished last in this comparo, so according to them it didn't do well against these 5 cars, and no amount of quotes you bring will change that for these drivers, in these conditions.
I think if a TCL'er was shopping for a new(er) sports car, they'd be seriously thinking about a slightly used s2000 or rx-8 while still considering a new member of the twins. They are only about 2-3 model years apart, its not some insane stretch. i'm not trying to compare it to a NB Miata or something from 10-15 years before. you could easily argue the NC2 platform dates to 2009 and is therefore not out of the question either...
my curiosity is if a member of the twins (BRZ/FRS) is somehow equal to or better to the previous sports cars of the last five years...which then would justify buying or trading in an older car. someday, i'll need backseats...if the twins are as good as the s2000 and provide a similar driving experience...then yeah. i just want to hear a side by side on them as they are in a similar class/category.
Last edited by compy222; 05-24-2012 at 03:41 PM.
still, the RX-8 is in the same HP/TQ bracket, weight, chassis dynamics, etc, etc. spiritually, it is probably the closest predecessor to the twins.
1 - That type of comparison/value judgement can be made in any class of car. Why buy a new GTI when you can get a CPO STI for similar money? Why buy a new Mustang GT when you can get a CPO GT500? Why ever buy new? At some point people just want the new thing.
2 - Some people won't want what amounts to a 13 year old chassis, regardless of whether or not they are looking at a 3 year old car. Yeah the S2000 is great, but its getting up there in age and is based on late 90s tech. I've heard people dismiss the NB Miata for the reasoning that they should either pony up for the better, more modern chassis (NC), or save a bunch of money and get a late year NA because they are so close mechanically to the NB.
While I agree some might actually compare the S2000/RX-8 to the twins while talking on the internet, I don't necessarily think it'll be commonplace once it times to sign the paperwork. And that's when the twins are new. Give them a few years and then the newest AP2s will be 5-7 years old, making actual deliberations/comparisons less likely.
I don't have flex and vibration numbers.. but even though the s2000 was a convertible I would have put it's chassis up against any car out there concerning driving dynamics - including cars with roofs...
Saying that the s2000 chassis is out of date tech is ridiculous. Chassis technology has not exactly "eclipsed" the s2000 and in general moves pretty slow.
Besides the s2000's high x bone monocoque.. the other biggest chassis improvement is hydroforming found on corvettes as early as c5s... i guess the magnesium engine cradle on the z06 and the carbon fiber found on some high end exotics.
If you can name a chassis technology that the fr-s employs that other cars don't i'd love to hear it. I'm not aware of it using magnesium, carbon fiber, hydorforming.. or even a high xbone monocoque...
Overall used cars are always a bargain for car enthusiasts because in general car tech does not move fast enough to truly devalue used products that are on the market. They aren't like iPhones or laptops... they are more like water heaters. They get the job done.. but newer models might be a little more efficient - the technology in an older water heater is essentially the same as a new one even if the new ones are a little more efficient.. and either way you get a nice hot shower.
The biggest reason people buy new is to have a warranty on their daily driver and they want the newest hottest looking thing to impress their friends and family.
Last edited by x1000rpms; 05-24-2012 at 08:14 PM.
According to cars.com there are 320 S2000 models for sale within any miles of my zip code in the US.
There are simply not enough used cars to satisfy even the limited demand predicted for the FR-S/BRZ.
Some of you poor blokes are going to have to suffer and buy a new BRZ instead of a 7 year old used S2000.
And ok off topic diverge. For some reason I have an urge for this S2000. But not at $25,000 for 38,000 miles
Last edited by 2.0T_Convert; 05-24-2012 at 08:12 PM.
Splinter - Team Post-Killing Ninja
I don't practice llanteria
2.0 makes a good point about the GTI being included...
However, does TCL think many buyers will cross shop it between a Miata/BRZ etc?
I looked at a Miata before buying my GTI and came to the conclusion, for a DD, the GTI is better suited to the task. However 6 months later, I bought a used Miata because it was still on my mind. Very different cars, but both enjoyable. I know I contradict my own question, but I was all over the place before buying my GTI. Someone looking for a pure sports car knows what they want.
When I saw the FRS/BRZ at the auto shows, I will admit it has my interest and look forward to driving one and comparing it to others competitors.
Regarding the S2000/RX8 comparisons - having a roof, back seats, and a small (but well designed) hatch area makes the BR86 a lot more flexible than an S2000 which isn't allowed on the track with many clubs, can't carry your wheels if it is, and can't carry your kids under any circumstances. The RX8 has scared off even the diehards with its reliability issues.
1987 Mercedes 190E 16v Cosworth
1997 Volvo 855 T5
2010 Volvo XC90
2013 Prius Plug-In
when there comes a time i need a daily driver again, it will be one of the twins.
There are potential buyers who don't really care what drive wheels move the car or about the weight. They simply want good looking sports car at an affordable cost. They may even ruin the cars nature with some rolled fenders to support 30 lb wheels tucked under a slammed car.
That second group is going to be the most critical of the BRZ/FR-S because to them it isn't quite as fast, versatile, or as cheap as other options they would consider just as acceptable - GTI, etc...
I can just imagine your articles. BMW 750 vs Audi A8 vs Lexus LS vs Golf TDI for good measureAll I can say is that my influence at Motor Trend is rather limited.
Last edited by 2.0T_Convert; 05-25-2012 at 07:37 AM.