Is this MINI owner an idiot, or what?

[jaycheetwood]

man im late to this fight. haha.

I am mini owner and i do mine at 3k..

turbo minis especially tuned like mine, tend to burn oil.

Its been seen where people wait 10k miles and drain 1qt of oil out.

They wonder why their engines fail.

CLIFF NOTES:

HE is a moron

[Chris_V]

That's kinda what i was asking too... from the original post:


From that... I'd say it never went off... but then they talk about it coming on (and staying on) in the past? Yet the've never had the oil changed? I'm confused.

I think he meant the dash indicator for other service came on and stayed on (like the microfilter or the 6k inspection, etc). The same light comes on in different colors for different things, and the dealership, by virtue of the key fob, determines which of the services it's asking for.

Again, if it came on and the dealer didn't do anyting about it, or reset without doing the oil change, then it's on them, especially since they were specifically asked about it, apparently.

On my car, it came on in yellow and I scheduled it for it's oil change thinking that's what it was for. The dealer hooked up the key fob and it said it was ready for it's 6k inspection, but it still was not ready for it's oil change. For the warranty and free maintenance, they will do it when the car tells them it's ready, not before. If something happens, it's on MINI.

[FissionMailed]

CLIFF NOTES:

HE is a moron

Wow, thanks so much for the educated enthusiast perspective.

CLIFF NOTES:

NOT everyone is an enthusiast and most people don't know squat about their cars

[Chris_V]

Wow, thanks so much for the educated enthusiast perspective.

CLIFF NOTES:

NOT everyone is an enthusiast and most people don't know squat about their cars

Or... Cliffs notes. Most people are told to follow the owner's manual and the manufacturer's advice. Which he did. How is that a moron, again?

And again, MINI is taking care of the issue under warranty.

[jaycheetwood]

Sorry no where does it say a mini should go 32k miles without an oil change.

It says 8-10k as i remember. I do own the same car and can say if he properly checked his oil this would have never happened.

Its been argued up and down our forums about oil and waiting.

Again.. what he did was negligent

[VWestlife]

Sorry no where does it say a mini should go 32k miles without an oil change.

It says 8-10k as i remember.

As has been pointed out repeatedly already, neither the owner's manual nor the dealership service department specifies a fixed oil change interval. They both say to wait until the oil change indicator in the car's gauge cluster comes on.

[ThreadBomber]

Sorry no where does it say a mini should go 32k miles without an oil change.

It says 8-10k as i remember. I do own the same car and can say if he properly checked his oil this would have never happened.

Its been argued up and down our forums about oil and waiting.

Again.. what he did was negligent

2007 Cooper S =/= 2011 Cooper S

[Chris_V]

Sorry no where does it say a mini should go 32k miles without an oil change.

It says 8-10k as i remember.

No, it doesn't. It says the light will come on and the mileage left will be shown. As has already been posted.



I have an '11 MINI and there is nowhere in the manual that has a defined mileage for the oil changes. Nowhere. And if I want the factory maintenance and warranty, I'll change the oil when the damn light says to. if it fails to light then that's a warranty issue, as well.

And the owner said he specifically asked well before then, and was told all is fine. So he was in fact following both the manual and the service department's advice. Which is why MINI is fixing it under warranty.

[hyperformancevw]

I would put $ that they never noticed the oil change reminder or asked the dealer about an oil change. I also doubt the reminder appeared and read 32,000 miles

[SchnellFowVay]

OK so 3 questions for you:

A.) How many miles did the Mini-owner wait for the first oil change
B.) Have you had a car go 19,000 miles before an oil change...If so which one?
C.) Who does the maintenance on your car, dealership as part of the free maintenance package?

A) No idea. Kind of irrelevant, though.

B) Yes. My 128i Convertible went 19,000 miles before its first oil change.

C) On the leased 128i, the dealership does 100% of the work under the free maintenance program. On my owned 135i which is fairly heavily modified (meth injection, dp, tune, etc.), I use the factory free maintenance program, but I have a local Euro tuning shop change the oil every 8k, no matter what (because modified N54's and N55's tend to burn oil in the turbchargers).

[SchnellFowVay]

You obviously have not read the thread, but I will respond anyway

I would put $ that they never noticed the oil change reminder

It's not just a damned reminder. It yells at you on the computer screen between your tach and speedo every single time you turn the car on. Then, when you, a giant picture of a wrench appears and then says "service soon" or something along those lines. This is not some little 2w lightbulb on a 1980's VW.

or asked the dealer about an oil change.

Not his job. All BMW products have 4 year/50k miles maintenance covered. So long as you bring your car in when the computer says so, it's the dealer's job to maintain the car. They even plug your key into a scanner which gives them a maintenance history and which notifies them if works needs to be done -- such as an oil change.

I also doubt the reminder appeared and read 32,000 miles

Nobody said that to begin with, as far as I can tell?

[Jason4]

You have to maintain the vehicle to the warranties standards in order for the warranty to stay valid. It's on him. I know that every 3000 miles I have to change my oil. Everyone should...

How do you know that? Lube shop marketing, owner's manual, oil company recommendations, internet hearsay, "it's what my dad always did"...?

[6cylVWguy]

Seems pretty obvious on the window sticker:
http://www.motoringfile.com/2012/04/...ange-interval/


And if this is true, it seems like the dealer is in violation of the manufacturer recommendation if they don't give a maximum mileage or time limit and say to simply rely on the computer in the car.

[R32R1]

Epic idiot

[Chris_V]

Seems pretty obvious on the window sticker:
http://www.motoringfile.com/2012/04/...ange-interval/


And if this is true, it seems like the dealer is in violation of the manufacturer recommendation if they don't give a maximum mileage or time limit and say to simply rely on the computer in the car.

I don't have a window sticker. I do, however have a manual and the relevant page was posted. And since it's paid for by MINI and I scenduled an appointment when *I* thought I should, I was told te same as the manual says.

We've gone over this in the myth of the 3k mile oil change threads. The manufacturers have increased the intervals, in many cases quite a bit, and that you shoud follow the manual's requirements for warranty purposes.

As an old school DIYer I'm not used to these longer intervals, myself, but if that's what the manual says, then let MINI and BMW eat it if they are too long.

[TM87]

Do we need to pull Jiffy Lube thread???

Most of the people here are idiots, not the owner. He followed recommendations from the dealer and manufacturer to the letter. Now the engine failed, and the dealer is fronting the cost. As it should be.
Most of you are stuck in stone age w cars. 3k oil change is so 70s, and most cars require 5-7k if not longer. Better engines better oils etc.
Believe it or not, car makers do test these things out, more then you , so called enthusiast ever will. Should the owner trust the car manufacturer OR bunch of armchair racers and mechanics on the boards??

[cheap sunglasses]

The owner could have had the oil changed at an earlier mileage at an independent shop for a nominal cost and avoided this whole mess. That's all well and good that MINI stood up to cover the costs, but seriously, was all of this hassle worth the cost of an oil change? MINI ended up paying for the work, but that outcome wasn't a given as the odometer crept up through 20,000+ miles.

It comes down to two points.
1 - risk evaluation : are you comfortable that if something catastrophic happens it will definitely be covered under warranty. Are you comfortable with paying for on the small chance that the warranty claim to repair said catastrophic failure gets denied?

2 - what is your time worth? Is cost of an oil change at another shop worth the hours of your time that you will have to spend dealing with MINI should something go bad?

[pattrick02]

smh.

[SchnellFowVay]

The owner could have had the oil changed at an earlier mileage at an independent shop for a nominal cost and avoided this whole mess. That's all well and good that MINI stood up to cover the costs, but seriously, was all of this hassle worth the cost of an oil change? MINI ended up paying for the work, but that outcome wasn't a given as the odometer crept up through 20,000+ miles.

It comes down to two points.
1 - risk evaluation : are you comfortable that if something catastrophic happens it will definitely be covered under warranty. Are you comfortable with paying for on the small chance that the warranty claim to repair said catastrophic failure gets denied?

2 - what is your time worth? Is cost of an oil change at another shop worth the hours of your time that you will have to spend dealing with MINI should something go bad?

These responses are getting really old (so why do I keep responding? IDK).

1) Yes, I am pretty comfortable that if soemthing catastrophic happens that it will covered under warranty on a stock car which I have been following all of the dealership's/manufacturer's recommendations for. The chance that a) the car will, indeed, have a catastrophic break AND b) that the manufacturer will deny coverage under warranty/maintenance plan is MINISCULE. How many minis do you think had catastrophic failures like this compared to the number sold? And how many do you think had warranty denied? The odds are almost zero.

2) My time is worth quite a bit of money to me. However, even if I

valued my time at $1000/hour, it's still not worth having an independent shop do the work. For example, let's say it takes 1 hour to get oil changed at Jiffy Lube at a cost of $50. Total DEFINITE cost to me: $1050 (100% probablilty so 1 x (50+1000).

Lets say the car catestrophically blows and it takes 10 hours of my time dealing with Mini. However, the odds of a catastrophic blowup are (and I am being very VERY generous) 1/500. Sure there is the $10,000 cost of time (10 x 1000), but at a probability of 1/500, the total expected cost is $20. (1/500 x 10,000).

So, even if we are going to go on about probabilities and costs, it is still the cheaper bet (no matter how "expensive" your time is) to just follow Mini's maintenance requirements.

Moreover, if you did get your car serviced at Jiffy Lube, there is a relatively high chance that THEY will grenade your car. Say a 1/1000 chance. When that happens, it is a HUGE mess because Jiffy Lube will initially deny the claim, then Mini will deny the claim, citing your not following the maintenance schedule and your use of an unapproved third party oil change. Ultimately you would probably get Jiffy Lube to pick up the tab, but that takes SERIOUS time and effort (I have 2 friends who have had JL grenade their cars. It took months to work it all out).

The bottom line, no matter how you slice it, is to document your interactions with the dealership, but to let the dealership make the decisions. You've paid them to maintain your car -- it's their responsibility. When you start taking things upon yourself, all of the sudden you've added the potential of a third party who can cause problems and whom Mini can blame for any problems.

[UnimogR]

This is what happens when you let a computer take complete charge of decision making, eventually you will have catastrophic FAILURES.

Yes, according to BMW and their supplied instructions the car supposedly did not indicate an oil change was needed.

So legally BMW is on the hook, their "technology" failed. The owner
"technically" fulfilled his obligation according to Mini/BMW instructions and because of this BMW is obligated to make things right again.

But the disturbing thing is that a individual with at least some intelligence (had the income and job to purchase this expensive toy) seems to have lacked the will and or common sense to at least further question the dealer, and when that wasn't sufficient give a call directly to Mini USA about this issue.

Then like others mention wanted to AVOID a time consuming mess and great inconveinence simply pay either the dealer or a decent shop to change the oil perhaps at a reasonable 10k miles.

The human race is in jeopardy of becoming dumber then a box of rocks when I see increasingly the lack of logic and or common sense.

[2.0T_Convert]

So to summarize the opinion being put forth by select BMW owners: even if you personally knew something might be wrong with a car you owned where either the car or dealer were not correct about no oil change being needed yet - you would still just motor along and just await the inevitable failure?

But after all it will be covered.....

One of the wonderful problems with modern America. Even if we notice a problem it isn't our job to fix. Waste our time to address. Just ignore the problem until it blows up in our face because after all someone else will be footing the bill.

[freedomgli]

seems to have lacked the will and or common sense to at least further question the dealer, and when that wasn't sufficient give a call directly to Mini USA about this issue.

And where people like you keep misunderstanding is that calling MINI USA wouldn't change anything about the company's recommended service interval policy. BMW knows there is a risk of catastrophic failure within the warranty period but they're comfortable enough with the risk calculus and so should their customers.

[freedomgli]

One of the wonderful problems with modern America. Even if we notice a problem it isn't our job to fix. Waste our time to address. Just ignore the problem until it blows up in our face because after all someone else will be footing the bill.

Jesus Christ. This issue isn't symbolic of the decline of America or any other political bs. BMW has decided this is their way forward and all their customers are the ones collectively paying for it. There is an error rate with anything. Computers are generally less fallable than humans at performing certain specific functions. Once in a while things don't work the way they're supposed to. C'est la vie.

[BRealistic]

Using technology to lower operating costs (and save oil) is a good thing.

The issue is that on consumer grade products, there is not incentive for the manufacturers to add redundancy to allow the owner to check to make sure the automated systems are working as intended.

After the engineers add an oil monitoring system they realize the dipstick is not "needed" so they remove it to save production costs (and limit possible oil contamination points).
That is awesome if you are buying new because you may save 5 bucks on the car's price, but then later when the car is well past warranty you would probably pay many times more what you may have actually saved on the purchase price to have that redundancy.

[UnimogR]

Jesus Christ. This issue isn't symbolic of the decline of America or any other political bs. BMW has decided this is their way forward and all their customers are the ones collectively paying for it. There is an error rate with anything. Computers are generally less fallable than humans at performing certain specific functions. Once in a while things don't work the way they're supposed to. C'est la vie.

Yes it does, the human should have had enough horse sense to question and then ACT when a situation didn't make reasonable sense to him.

That damn computer can't think critically and independently. An intelligent human can.

Sorry but I want a dip stick even if I have to pay 5 bucks for it as an option.

I want a back up to the electronic system.

[irsa76]

Read the goddamned thread.

He has a BMW, which included maintenance.

And no cars require 3,000 mile oil changes any longer. One of my BMWs went 19,000 before its first change.

Wrong, Toyota diesels require oil changes every 5,000km. Failure to do so WILL result in long term engine damage.

[ThreadBomber]

Wrong, Toyota diesels require oil changes every 5,000km. Failure to do so WILL result in long term engine damage.

There is no way this is true with synthetic oil.

[scoTT la rock]

Nothing to add here other than if I was leasing a car, I guess I would follow "their" schedule, but if I really loved a car and was buying it to keep it then 5000 miles max between changes is the way to go.

[2.0T_Convert]

Jesus Christ. This issue isn't symbolic of the decline of America or any other political bs. BMW has decided this is their way forward and all their customers are the ones collectively paying for it. There is an error rate with anything. Computers are generally less fallable than humans at performing certain specific functions. Once in a while things don't work the way they're supposed to. C'est la vie.

Decline it is.

Feel free to paint it any way you'd like. He was an idiot for ignoring an oil change for 2 years. He could have done a little digging himself instead of waiting until something went kaput.

[1Point8TDan]

I'm sure at 20K miles if he told the SA the car has NEVER had an oil change, they would have investigated, and done it (dealership would get paid by BMW wouldn't it?). You still cannot trust technology despite how far it has gotten. That would be like his navigation telling him to drive off a cliff because its the fastest way to get down the hill. Sure its right but its not logical.

[TM87]

Like i stated, i feel like the guy is not at fault, and is getting covered.
I would insist on oil change afer a first year. Im sure the dealer wouldve complied, but some people just dont worry about that. They dont have the time or cthey believe the maker and dealer(who should know better then him).
When i asked my dealer about 10k oil change, cuz i do 5-7k a year, he said bring it in after a year or if i notice low oil. This is VW and has a dipstick so i could check. Any sludge or engine faliure do to oil, wouldve been covered by VW or the dealer.

[Orzel Bialy]

Idiot.

[hmontaq]

What...

[FissionMailed]

I want a back up to the electronic system.

I demand my car have CIS as well as Bosch fuel injection!!!

[MrRoboto]

Everyone thinks they can hold other people to their own standard, when possibly 80% of Mini drivers could have done exactly what this guy just did, just because they don't know any better. Not everyone is a car enthusiast, and many Mini owners are indeed first time car owners themselves.

There is a phenomenon now that people actually think current synthetic motor oil does indeed allow them to drive for tens of thousands of miles without needing a change. Some of this is due to the image of synthetic oils lasting much longer than older mineral oils being advertised constantly on T.V. Add to that the CSB from BMW and similar systems in other cars, it's no wonder things like this do happen.

The system is flawed. If the dealer tells the customer to come in before the computer says they're supposed to, the customer may feel like the dealer is trying to rip them off. If they leave it be until the system tells them to change the oil, things like this may happen. It is rather counterintuitive.