Why would I trust the long term reliability of a new American turbo four any less than a German turbo four?
'86 Jaguar xj-s 5.3HE coupe, cobalt blue metallic/blue
'08 Hyundai Accent SE hatch, ice blue/gray
Bisixually disposed, lucas charged and coventry clothed
The thing that gets me is how complicated stuff is now. Turbos are one aspect of it but the amount of stuff in an engine now is crazy. For example the 2.0TSI not only has your typical DOHC arrangement(driven by one chain), but it also has two balance shafts driven by another chain and an oil pump driven via a third chain . One of the balance shafts obviously rotates in the other direction so coming off the chain is a gear which drives an opposing gear on the shaft. The water pump is driven by a gear on the other side of one of the balance shafts.
It's just nuts how complicated this stuff is, a turbocharger and its accompanying parts is like 20% of the whole deal.
I work at a company that does a little bit of R&D for GM, and trust me, they count pennies, not dollars on what goes into cars. I am just making this up, but I can easily imagine a scenario where the size of the heat shield for the turbo oil lines can be debated ad nauseam, because 50 sqinch versus 120 sqinch might add up to $1 a car, which is a huge deal.
I know there have been some turbo engines for domestic niche products, like the Chevy HHR SS and Saturn Red, which are extremely small production cars that do not generate the kind of statistics anyone would notice. And when you say "for many many" years, do you mean since 2007-2008?
So which are the cars in which GM been using turbo-fours for "many many" years? (honest question)
Last edited by av_audi; 05-26-2012 at 05:22 PM.
GM started turbocharging in 1962 with the above Old Jetfire. The Buick Regal had a history of turbos. There was the Grand National. The Syclone/Typhoon of the early 90s. The Sunbird of about the same time. There was a turbo TransAm at this time as well. North American vehicles didn't see much in the way of turbos in the later 90s and early 00s but Holden and Opel used them.
Last edited by nm+; 05-26-2012 at 05:53 PM.
In any case, it is not as simple as saying it is all the same company. It never is in such big multi-national companies. These are different people on different continents. There are different design teams. And sometimes groups don't talk to each other enough because they are competing with each other or they just don't care. But you did provide an important clue, that the Ecotec was designed by a bunch of different branches and companies. I read up on it a little bit. Hopefully this bodes well for GM.Or are the European branches of Ford/GM experienced enough in turbos that they won't mess up the US models?
I think you understand that, but it seems you're more interested in the semantics of "over engineered". I don't think it's a misuse of the word if you consider it in relation to what the customer needs. You may be thinking of the word simply in relation to the design requirements of the engine in which case you're right too - it's designed to a spec, and that's how we make it.
The engine may not be over engineered compared to the design requirements of making a modern and clean burning diesel. However to meet the design requirements, the engine ends up being over engineered for the average driver in the US and how they use their vehicle.
His point was that turbocharged diesel engines tend to outlast comparable gasoline engines. And he's right.
I've done component design, development and application engineering, and powertrain quality monitoring in the field. Most of that work has been on diesel engines working with around a dozen engine and vehicle manufactuerers.
2: Really? I can't read dates. You need to lighten the **** up francis or go to some other forum because you don't seem to "get" TCL.
Seriously, you shomegrown if he knew anything about engineering engines. Only a real noob would ask that.
Last edited by nm+; 05-26-2012 at 11:57 PM.
I worry more about long term durability than I do about reliability. I have VW's 1.8T to thank for making me nervous on both counts. So, I am very interested to see if in 5 years if this new crop of Turbo engines starts eating up sensors, diverter valves, expensive and unnecessary complex coolant piping, ignition parts BL&D, etc.
Originally user 22691
"I'm trying to live vicariously through jrod here and my vicarious
life would be better if he had a twin turbo. Or a ****ing pirate