VRT carnage pics

[GinsterMan98]

So there was a VR6 that didn't want to run right. Opened it up and found cylinder number 1 and 5 with cracked ring lands. Let this serve as a warning to everyone out there that running rich does not equal safe. Be careful with your chip tunes out there.


I was lucky that the rings and bores were perfect, so two used pistons later it is back together. I know, I know I am crazy for just swapping the pistons. I actually just want to see if it works, lol. I have an other bottom end and head ready just in case.

Just wanted to show everyone that fuel puddling is no joke and can destroy even the beefy VR piston like a toy. Man, what a trip this turbo BS has been. Be very aware that this was not caused by heat, this was caused by un burt fuel igniting after the initial burn. I will never trust a chip tune ever again, I am so glad I now have a SEM that I can actually control what is going on.

Not many people on here show their failures, I decided to share so people can see what happens when things don't go as planned. Shame really, this motor had 195 across the board when I got it 2 years ago. Live and learn I guess.

[Rapid Decompression]

Wow ...May I ask what tune was in there? How much boost? And what kinda of issues did it have?

[vergessen wir es]

Goes to show that even with that damage your compression was still technically in spec. I am guessing your leakdown was in the 15% to 20% range which definitely isn't spec. What was your idle vac before teardown?

[GinsterMan98]

Well the fuel setup was UM 42# for OBD2. Also was basically a kinetics kit which lived its life around 15-18 psi. 9:1 spacer with arp's.

Issues were a good amount of blow by, but not anything crazy. Engine low on Vac 11 in hg, don't trust your Autometer gauge. Misfire on cyl 5 at idle and part throttle.

This must have happened months ago when it was cold out. Thing wanted to stay in the 10's on tip in, way to much fuel.

New setup will be PTE 58/62, Lugtronic, 630's and a fresh trans. Oh still going to see if this piston swap idea works.

Goes to show that even with that damage your compression was still technically in spec. I am guessing your leakdown was in the 15% to 20% range which definitely isn't spec. What was your idle vac before teardown?

I just pulled it apart, they wanted 50 to do the leakdown test and that HC test stuff is about the same. 50 bucks gets me a gasket, so I decided to just pull it apart and see what was up.

[DieGTi]

Very common with stock Vr6 pistons in turbo engine even with SEM.

[DieGTi]

Lost a fuel injector ... and then a piston.

[DieGTi]

[1SlowSLC]

I toasted a stock piston, even with DTA management. High engine temps (mostly overheating) will kill a stock bottom end also.

The stock pistons let go on the ringlands 99% of the time. They just werent made to deal with boost.

[GinsterMan98]

SO after reading again about detonation I guess that is what happened to this motor. Sucks really bad, I was really amped to start driving and tuning the new setup.

Thanks for making me feel better everyone, it is nice to not be alone. Though it is kinda embarrassing, I hope someone learns something from this. You don't see to many threads like this. Guess that's a good thing though.

Oddly enough after looking at both pistons in detail both wrist pin bores have slight galling. They both also broke in the same place, the left edge of the quelch area of the piston. Looking at the engine from the front, 7 o' clock position.

I am also aware that this can happen with any setup really. I know SEM will not protect me from things like this, though I have a feeling the rich running conditions on tip in with my last setup didn't help. I also know that chips like some setups and son't like others, guess it didn't like mine. Man does failure suck...

[PjS860ct]

this what happen with mine at waterfest 3 years ago when my inline pump lost connection from the battery I was still learning lol.. well thats how I looked at it )




This is from the 3L I bought here in the tex and it didnt wanna start when I installed everything together... did a comp check and no compression on cly #3 and very low compression on 1 n 5... the guy I bought it from gave me money and a set of shrick 268 cams to kinda make it right as he didnt know it was like that ( i guess its a win lose situation for the both of us)

^this was from tuning... the original owner has sds and it just got tuned (800miles on the engine he said) it suppose to have made something like 490hp) then the car got parted

[pete@integrated]

We see literally a TON of melted rear VR6 pistons... Out of all the replacement pistons we sell for forged piston sets, literally 95% of them turn out to be VR6 rears... I always make a point of asking when people call.

My advise- consider tapping your manifold for multiple EGT gauges and at least moving them around to check the rear bank versus front bank. I would never put a standalone on a boosted VR6 with a short runner without cylinder trims and some way of tuning them in.

The intake manifolds are all different depending on which one you are running, so a canned tune may not be spot on as far as cylinder compensation goes. Hell, I'd imagine a decent amount of the smaller injector canned tunes are for stock manifold, with very little bank compensation...

Run them rich in boost too- it won't hurt, and it's easier then swapping out rear pistons every other week. Your WB02 isn't telling you the real story anyways, it's just an average. A/F makes very little difference to power as long as it's not ULTRA rich.

[GinsterMan98]

interesting point you brought up. From what I have seen it is usually 1,3 or 5 that fail. What about running OEM MK4 cams with a SRI? should solve that problem? I will have to ask Kevin if he can do anything for the back pistons in terms of the tune. This all happened before Lugtronic, He was the one who thought something was wrong by looking at my logs. I just thought the motor was tired or the head was no good. Thanks for the heads up one that one bro. Thank you Pete for your info also.

[V-dubbulyuh]

Ginster, what is your intercooling setup?

The one motor that I've hurt was also the rear bank due to high temps. Let's just say I take intercooling a lot more seriously now.

Lots of good info in here

[GinsterMan98]

Ginster, what is your intercooling setup?

The one motor that I've hurt was also the rear bank due to high temps. Let's just say I take intercooling a lot more seriously now.

Lots of good info in here

I have a feeling you are correct. Going to get my used short block today. Also IC was a CXRacing.

[flatsix02]

I feel your pain.... my first vrt ended like this.

[DieGTi]

Wow, that's a nice paperweight/conversation piece,

[hoodita]

same thing happened to me 3yrs ago. but mine was way way worse. all the ringlands broke.

After that. I dont ever trust a chip tune ever again. Especially C2.

If i were to do it again. SEM with 1 or more EGT sensors or nothing. Too much wasted time and money.

[GinsterMan98]

same thing happened to me 3yrs ago. but mine was way way worse. all the ringlands broke.

After that. I dont ever trust a chip tune ever again. Especially C2.

If i were to do it again. SEM with 1 or more EGT sensors or nothing. Too much wasted time and money.

I need to figure out how people mount egt probes on cast manifolds.

[DeckManDubs]

Sucks man. Glad to hear your doing it over right with SEM

Mine ended with much less damage, but was still smoked.

[GinsterMan98]

Thanks for the support. This year has gone like this, clutch, trans, headgasket now this. VW's are awesome, lol.

Also, no bueno on the motor. Someone left the hood up and it was rusted up. Sucks because today was half off day.

[vergessen wir es]

I heard 3-5% more fuel for the rears. Plus, when I asked Kevin about EGT, he said meh. I could be remembering wrong though.

You can drill and tap the cast iron easily enough.

[GinsterMan98]

I heard 3-5% more fuel for the rears. Plus, when I asked Kevin about EGT, he said meh. I could be remembering wrong though.

You can drill and tap the cast iron easily enough.

I am going to send him an email and see what he thinks. I done working on it for now, all VW'd out at the moment.

[DeckManDubs]

I heard 3-5% more fuel for the rears. Plus, when I asked Kevin about EGT, he said meh. I could be remembering wrong though.

You can drill and tap the cast iron easily enough.

To setup an ideal tune, o2 sensor for each cyl. Saw it from way back on a 944 race car.

[DieGTi]

Just beware the sensor tip taking out your exhaust wheel when it breaks.

SEM will allow for bank trim... if you go MS3 you can trim cylinders individually if you wire up full sequential fuel even ...

[DeckManDubs]

Just beware the sensor tip taking out your exhaust wheel when it breaks.

Very true, this was on a N/A engine. On a turbo you are very right it could cause all sorts of damage. So perhaps just to establish the tune via aux reading then to set your post turbo o2.

Never tried this, but it would be interesting to see the difference from cyl to cyl on air/fuel mixtures.

[GinsterMan98]

Just beware the sensor tip taking out your exhaust wheel when it breaks.

SEM will allow for bank trim... if you go MS3 you can trim cylinders individually if you wire up full sequential fuel even ...

I have a Lugtonic ECU, I am sure it will all work itself out once it is running again. It will run again and be better than ever.

[pete@integrated]

Just beware the sensor tip taking out your exhaust wheel when it breaks.

SEM will allow for bank trim... if you go MS3 you can trim cylinders individually if you wire up full sequential fuel even ...

This only happens if you run **** sensors and hang them out a mile. Inconel sheathed sensor barely in the exhaust stream = no problems.

[llanowar]

nice thread ! i heard of running different spray pattern injectors for 135 but with kevin im sure he could tune it in to
egt seems good idea y not

[cant get a password]

Melted mine down last week towed it home and stuck it in the garage for another day

[GinsterMan98]

Melted mine down last week towed it home and stuck it in the garage for another day

Yeah, it is pretty awesome.

[obdONE]

I see this thread evolving a lot over the coming months/ years...

I've been slightly angry at mine as well since the dyno but decided I'm going to run it as is until I blow it up for real. Don't lose heart just yet. You'll get everything sorted out.

[DeckManDubs]

I see this thread evolving a lot over the coming months/ years...

I've been slightly angry at mine as well since the dyno but decided I'm going to run it as is until I blow it up for real. Don't lose heart just yet. You'll get everything sorted out.

Jamie, did you ditch the MS3 for Lugtronic?

[Dave926]

Jamie, did you ditch the MS3 for Lugtronic?

I think he had ms1 if anything.

[DieGTi]

Ms1 sucks compared to ms2 and ms3. Terrible for fi with large injectors.

-Andrew

[obdONE]

Hey Noah! It was ms1 and yeah I'm on lugtronic now. I just couldn't get anywhere with ms and got tired of bothering Paul about it. He worked with me enough over the years with that damn thing.