quick and simple AR question: difference between Colt 6920 and 6921?

[Obin Robinson]

I have been thinking about picking up an AR in the next year or so. I have it narrowed down to one of two different guns at this time because my budget won't allow for an ADCOR Bear SBR. It's down to the Colt 6920 and the Colt 6921:

http://www.colt.com/ColtLawEnforceme...ntCarbine.aspx



Stupid question time:
1) Is the ONLY difference between these two guns the shorter barrel on the 6921? In other words is the sight distance identical, the handguards identical, and everything else 100% identical?

2) From what I've read, and seen, the 6921 is the closest thing to the R0921 correct? The only real difference is that the R0921 is select fire?

3) What actually comes with the 6920 and 6921 in the box? Does the A2-style sight/handle come with it? I've heard that the Matech sight comes with some of the rifles or is that only the 6940?

I can't seem to 100% verify the answers to the above questions. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!

obin

[SuperStar]

im pretty sure everything is the same (including sight distance, handguards) only barrel length is the difference, at least if you're comparing the 6920 with the 14.5" 6921
(6921 also comes in a 10 or 10.5" also there is a heavy barrel option too on both the 6920 and 6921)

[CDub87]

I have also been thinking about picking up an AR sometime soon, but I've been eyeing the stag model 8. Would I be better off going with a colt?

[gotta_jet]

Would I be better off going with a colt?

Yes.

[Subie J]

[Elbows]

Obin, if these are the two models I'm thinking of, yes, and the 6921 is an SBR basically (short by maybe .3"?)

[Obin Robinson]

Thats what I was thinking too. From what I can see the 6921 is basically the same thing as the R0921 (military M4 carbine). I just want to make sure that I am not looking at something with a different sight distance, handguard length, stock length, etc. If the only thing different is the "sad switch" rather than the R0921's "happy switch" that is fine.

The only downside is the price of the 6921. I know I'd have to pay the $200 stamp tax but people want a bit too much for this gun lately. I wonder if that slightly shorter barrel is really worth it?

obin

[Elbows]

Honestly, I'd see if you could get one and slot on BCM's extended A2X (it makes the 14.5" rifle legal without going up to a 16" inch barrel) or some other hider. Pin that sucker and call it a day.

I do really prefer 14.5-14.7" guns to 16"s...saves you an inch or two when all is said and done.

I don't know if you can order it that way. That's one reason I love that LWRC at least does 14.7" barrels, so you're legal with an A2. I would never go through the hassle of NFA stuff for a 14.5" gun.

[Obin Robinson]

Thanks for the info! One last question:

Is the trigger pull the same with the R0921 on semi and the 6921 on semi? In other words does the feel exactly like an M4 without the "happy switch?" Is it the same gritty and vague feel as the M4?

obin

[Elbows]

The only happy-switch M4's I've shot have been pretty old and beat up, so my buddy's newer 6920 and 6921 felt better, but yes it's just a standard mil-spec trigger, just no happy switch. I could be wrong, but I couldn't tell much difference.

Likewise the Colt semi's felt just like my LWRC semi (which at the time was a normal milspec trigger pack too).

It's been 2-3 years though since I shot them.

[Obin Robinson]

Cool deal! Hopefully I can get some good range time in with one so the M4 won't feel so awkward to me. I am not sure if that slightly shorter barrel would be worth the stamp. If I am going to make this thing into an SBR I'd just go to something as short as the CAR-15.

Thanks again for the info!

obin

[NoDubJustYet]

This article might be relevant to your interests:

http://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/colt...ew-gun-review/

[Obin Robinson]

This article might be relevant to your interests:

http://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/colt...ew-gun-review/

Thanks! I checked that out and the video above. I've been sold on these guns for years and I really like the feel of them. The hard thing to do is a side-by side comparison with the R0921. I think I will pick one of these up within a year or so. I really have to get more trigger time in with the AR15. I hate borrowing rifles from other people during competitions.

I also plan on staying the hell away from ARFCOM and all the other "armchair Delta Force" types. All I plan on doing is installing the Matech BUIS (NSN 1005-01-484-8000) and calling it a day. No Franken-guns and no "mall ninja" modifications. I'm going to keep it as close to being a duty weapon as possible. That way the muscle memory will be the same and the only real difference will be the "happy switch" on the R0921. As much as I am a Kalashnikov nut I have to say that I really need to realign my focus to becoming more familiar with what the US Navy uses. As much as I think the ADCOR guns are superior I don't want to get familiar with something that the Navy doesn't use.

obin

[Obin Robinson]

One more question:

What is the accuracy of the 6920 when fed with Mk 262 Mod 1 ammunition? I see reports all over the place ranging from sub-MOA to 4-MOA and I'm not sure if that is because of quality control or because of the shooter? Does anyone have a definitive answer on this?

Thanks!

obin

[dj age one]

specs show 1/7 twist, it should shoot the heavy ammo pretty well.

I'd make a basic assumption it should result in 1.5moa@100.

4 MOA on quality ammo and I'd send the thing back.

[Obin Robinson]

4 MOA on quality ammo and I'd send the thing back.

Ditto. I was thinking the same thing. I wonder if I'm just reading reports from crappy shooters. The Mk 262 Mod 1 was designed to be accurate from the M4/R0921.

obin

[Elbows]

I don't think I've seen an AR (from a reputable company) that couldn't shoot better than 4-MOA in the hands of a competent shooter.

I'd imagine a normal Colt would average 2-3 MOA, and better with a good shooter and quality ammo. I'd agree with the 1.5 area.

[gotta_jet]

I can't find an exact figure for the accuracy standard for MK 262, but i'll copy and paste from DocGKR:

"M855A1 is definitely more accurate than recent M855, about par with Mk318 and 70 gr Optimal “browntip”, while less accurate than Mk262. Current M855A1 is shooting about 2 MOA--however... the contract allows 5.5 MOA...
-- The M855A1 accuracy standard is over twice as large as the Mk318 contract requirement..."

All we can deduce is that it is less than one-half of 5.5MOA.

I've also asked him in a discussion on another forum if he is aware of the contract accuracy standard (if anyone can find out, it's DocGKR) , so hopefully we can get a real answer shortly.

[Obin Robinson]

Thanks for any info you can offer. My guess is that even if I got a real rat it wouldn't be too hard to swap out a barrel and get it shooting straighter. I really would rather not do that though especially for the money.

obin

[dj age one]

Ditto. I was thinking the same thing. I wonder if I'm just reading reports from crappy shooters. The Mk 262 Mod 1 was designed to be accurate from the M4/R0921.

obin

I had thought it was designed with MK12 Mod 0 in mind?

[Obin Robinson]

I had thought it was designed with MK12 Mod 0 in mind?

It's supposed to be more accurate in any of the shorter barrels over a longer distance.

obin

[gotta_jet]

"Since the contract standard for Mk318 is 2 MOA, you might infer that the more accurate Mk262 should have a contract standard no greater than that, if not better..."

http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.p...ll=1#post75943

[Obin Robinson]

"Since the contract standard for Mk318 is 2 MOA, you might infer that the more accurate Mk262 should have a contract standard no greater than that, if not better..."

http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.p...ll=1#post75943

Excellent! Thanks for the info. I'm happy to drop big coins on something that can shoot 2MOA or less and isn't a match rifle. I am sure it will shoot better but I just don't want to find out that it always shoots worse than 2MOA.

obin

[Obin Robinson]

Bump up: I just ordered a Colt Defense 6920 from Buds. I put it on layaway as I have a ton of cash flying in every direction at the moment. I'll post pictures when I finally get it.

obin

[Obin Robinson]

As promised:



Now the next question: Fusil USA or Brownells magazines? I want metal 30 rounders and I've always been particular to the Fusil USA ones. Are the Brownells ones just as good?

Brownells:
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=2...OUND-MAGAZINES

Fusil USA:
http://www.midwayusa.com/Product/351...nd-steel-matte


obin

[Elbows]

Honestly for $12 a pop, I'd just go with PMAGs. I haven't used Brownells or Fusils though.

[Obin Robinson]

Honestly for $12 a pop, I'd just go with PMAGs. I haven't used Brownells or Fusils though.

I love the Fusil mags. I have turned several friends onto them after their PMAGs were not wanting to drop free. I haven't seen the Brownells ones but might order one or two.

obin

[gotta_jet]

I've heard mixed reviews of the Brownell's mags. NHMTG GI mags with magpul followers and the new Lancer mags are quite popular as more people move away from PMAGS.

[Elbows]

People only moved away from PMAGs as the prices started to increase. Non-free-dropping PMAGs are first generation magazines (circa 2007-2008 etc.). I have heard brilliant things about the Lancers.

Haven't heard anything about the "new" PMAGs. Non-free-dropping PMAGs can also be easily modified to drop free, so if I saw some of the 1st Gen's being sold in bulk, I'd probably snatch them up. You used to be able to find PMAGs for $80-90 for 10 which was nice...not so any more.

I'll have to collect 2 of each type of AR magazine here in the next year or so, in anticipation of my next purchase.

[NoDubJustYet]

You seem to forget that Obin doesn't like MagPul... He's just making excuses for not going with their superior magazines.

[Elbows]

You seem to forget that Obin doesn't like MagPul... He's just making excuses for not going with their superior magazines.

Ah but of course...but isn't this a time for trying new things? He did buy an AR...

[Obin Robinson]

Ah but of course...but isn't this a time for trying new things? He did buy an AR...

... and a direct impingement one at that.

I have a ton of USGI mag carriers I kept from my Iraq deployment. We didn't have to turn them in when we got to Kuwait. Only the metal mags fit in them and polymers are a tight fit. I also like the metal mags and had no problems with them even in the super dusty talcum powder sand environment of Iraq.

obin

[dj age one]

I have 5 brownells mags.. they've always worked fine, though I'm not beating on them.

I also have 2 20rnd pmags and 1 30rnd window pmag.

I like the pmags better... especially the 20 round ones.

[Obin Robinson]

I ordered 3 of these:

http://www.keepshooting.com/enhanced-m16-magazine.html

Strong and Durable

•Magazine body and floor plate heat treated to maintain HRC 53-56 for extreme durability and wear resistance
•All metal surfaces are finished using Electrophoretic deposition for superior corrosion protection
•Fully LASER welded front and rear seams for superior strength
Compatibility


•Precise STANAG compliant dimensions for consistent performance
•NATO standard anti-tilt follower ensuring 100% reliable LRBHO engagement
•NATO standard follower, spring, and floor plate ensuring limitless supply of FRU for repair if needed
Reliability

•Electrophoretic deposition finish infused with Teflon for self lubrication
•STANAG compliant dimensions for superior fit and function
•Battle proven anti-tilt follower to ensure reliable feeding
Construction

•Magazine body is made from steel and is fully heat treated
•LASER welded front and rear seams
•LASER engraved "Enhanced Magazine 5.56x45mm"
•Matte Black non-glare Electrophoretic deposition finish
With a 35+ year history developing M16 style weapons, the Taiwanese defense industry understands the importance of making quality defense articles. This magazine builds upon the proven track record of manufacturing defense goods that stand up to threats both foreign and domestic. You will be proud to add this quality magazine to your inventory of magazines and it will serve you well.

I liked them so much I ordered 7 more. They are really nice. They feel as solid as an AK mag and they lock into the Colt 6920 perfectly. Get 'em while they are on sale!

obin

[NoDubJustYet]

I know Obin hates MagPul, but I thought I'd share with everyone else:

Magpul M3 Magazine update


While working hard on the set of the Hot Shots 2013 Calendar shoot in Los Angeles last night we got a look at the updated Magpul M3 magazine. Magpul’s Drake Clark was on hand to explain some of the changes to the magazine since it was first revealed at SHOT Show 2012.
The major stand out in the updated M3 is the updated floor plate that slides on from the front. Instead of designing two floor plates, Magpul will ship the new mag with a floor plate that bridges the gap between the original M3 design we first saw at SHOT and the slim floor plate they intended to offer as an accessory. The new floor plate, as seen in the above photo, has a proper lip to grab onto while still being slim enough to slip in and out of a mag pouch. So for all you shooters who expressed outrage at the thought of having to pay for a slim floor plate, the updated floor plate replaces both earlier versions. There will be no “slim” floor plate.
In addition to the features of the M3 magazine as listed below, Clark teased one more piece of the M3 magazine that has yet to be seen. He wouldn’t say more, except that it would be a surprise.
Clark stressed that Magpul used the M3 as an opportunity to push past a simple PMAG update and address every aspect of polymer magazine design from mold flow analysis and material selection to feature development, all with the focus on improved durability and reliability. The M3 moniker will be used to describe a class of products that feature technology Magpul discovered and applied first in the M3 magazine and will be seen in future magazines of different capacity and calibers.
Other features of the M3 include:

• Newly formulated polymer that is many times stronger than the current PMAG formulation
• Increased strength results in stronger feed lips and stronger spine
• HK416, SA80, SCAR and ACR compatibility
• Overinsertion stop that prevents damage when driving home a full mag on a closed bolt
• dot matrix for marking
• Improved ramps above and below the magazine catch
• Improved grip surface on the front and back of the mag
• Improved follower and lock plate that interface to under full spring compression to prevent damage or misalignment of follower

The M3 is undergoing final testing and Magpul hopes to have the magazine available for purchase by 4th quarter, 2012. Magpul will continue to produce the PMAG and EMAG alongside the M3 magazine.