Questions about camming my VR6

[carroot1]

Recently I've decided to replace my valve cover gasket due to the oil burning smell coming from it. I got an idea about buying some cheap cams, the autotech 262s. I have some questions about it. My car has 145k miles on it. Can i just buy the camshafts or do i need valve springs/lifters. From what i've heard I shouldn't need anything but the cams if i go with the 262s. As far as performance im not to worried. I am worried about the car running like **** afterwards. Am i going to need to buy a tune for it or will it run fine without one? Thank you if you actually read this all.

[Scotty_2.0]

It's always best to go with HD springs, but with the 262's you should be ok. But new cams require new lifters. They wear together and should be replaced together. As for "tune", stock ECU will do just fine although software will liven the engine up some with/without cams.

[carroot1]

so if i get the hd valve springs + lifters the car will still idle and run good? i shouldnt have any cel problems? this is a lot of money to spend on an upgrade i just want to do a lot of researching before i stick this money into it

[GTIVRon]

Also budget new head gasket and head bolts. Not 100% completely necessary but I find it much easier to just do the valve springs with the head on a bench.

[Scotty_2.0]

so if i get the hd valve springs + lifters the car will still idle and run good? i shouldnt have any cel problems? this is a lot of money to spend on an upgrade i just want to do a lot of researching before i stick this money into it

Yup. I have the TT268's and idle is just fine. Head does not 'need' to come off, so if money is tight don't worry about the HG stuff.

[carroot1]

Yup. I have the TT268's and idle is just fine. Head does not 'need' to come off, so if money is tight don't worry about the HG stuff.

ok so i play on just getting the autotech 262s with hd valvesprings and lifters. the timing chain does need to come off correct?

[masterqaz]

Gears gotta come off the cams but if your real careful and sneaky you can leave the chain on. JUst do one at a time. Also check and double/ triple check the timing once done

[carroot1]

alright, im pretty sure we will end up removing my timing chains. this will be done by a mechanic so hopefully all goes smoothly.

[Grabbit]

<----- has run the AT 262s for 50k plus miles on stock head with GIAC cam profile chip as well as AMS chip. Runs good.

IMHO if you going to do the trouble of pulling the head to do a gasket and HD springs go with a larger cam (Schrick 268s).

[carroot1]

<----- has run the AT 262s for 50k plus miles on stock head with GIAC cam profile chip as well as AMS chip. Runs good.

IMHO if you going to do the trouble of pulling the head to do a gasket and HD springs go with a larger cam (Schrick 268s).

thanks for the info probabl just guna do the lifters and cams. dont want to take the head apart

[98GTI_VR6]

i'm regreting getting the 262's

i did the mk4 headgasket and hd spring, cam followers and 262's with the bfi chip
new valves and match ported and polished head

i now wanna get the 268's if i do ill sell you my 262's for like 100$

the idle is normal with either ive herd
but the power band is much nicer with the 268's i want the drc 268's i'll let you know if i get them...

[carroot1]

i'm regreting getting the 262's

i did the mk4 headgasket and hd spring, cam followers and 262's with the bfi chip
new valves and match ported and polished head

i now wanna get the 268's if i do ill sell you my 262's for like 100$

the idle is normal with either ive herd
but the power band is much nicer with the 268's i want the drc 268's i'll let you know if i get them...

now that makes me wonder about the drc 268s. would they require reinforced valvesprings or will the stock ones work fine? and for lifters?

[masterqaz]

now that makes me wonder about the drc 268s. would they require reinforced valvesprings or will the stock ones work fine? and for lifters?

Hd springs for those too, if a mechanics doing it get them to do the springs while the heads still on.

[Grabbit]

Hd springs for those too, if a mechanics doing it get them to do the springs while the heads still on.

How do you put new springs in with the head still on?

[need_a_VR6]

Compressed air to hold the valves closed and an overhead compressor. I can take the head off and change the gasket and springs quicker then that way.

[running_corrado]

I have heard a lot of people say they regret getting the autotech 262.. and a lot of people saying they are the best for the money. I got the drc 268 and love them. Between the cams, a mk4 hg, and united ms software, I am very impressed. Completely different motor. I even beat my friends mk4 r32! the drc cams aren't much more then the autotech ones.. I would reccomend those ones!

[carroot1]

I have heard a lot of people say they regret getting the autotech 262.. and a lot of people saying they are the best for the money. I got the drc 268 and love them. Between the cams, a mk4 hg, and united ms software, I am very impressed. Completely different motor. I even beat my friends mk4 r32! the drc cams aren't much more then the autotech ones.. I would reccomend those ones!

did you replace the vavlesprings and lifters also? whats the difference between 262s and 268s? more powerband ?

[Scotty_2.0]

did you replace the vavlesprings and lifters also? whats the difference between 262s and 268s? more powerband ?

Anything bigger than the 262's and you pretty much have to use HD springs. The lifters are a step that some skip, but really shouldn't. The cam wears to the lifters and a new cam should ALWAYS get new lifters (unless they've been replaced recently).

Main difference is more lift and longer duration. The power band moves up some. Still plenty of torque down low, but the top end really opens up.

[carroot1]

Anything bigger than the 262's and you pretty much have to use HD springs. The lifters are a step that some skip, but really shouldn't. The cam wears to the lifters and a new cam should ALWAYS get new lifters (unless they've been replaced recently).

Main difference is more lift and longer duration. The power band moves up some. Still plenty of torque down low, but the top end really opens up.

So if i buy the auto tech hd valvesprings and lifters they will work with the drc 268s?

[Scotty_2.0]

So if i buy the auto tech hd valvesprings and lifters they will work with the drc 268s?

Yes.

[VR6DPLMT.]

I agree with the rest I would get drc268's. I have them in my car and before I had TT264/260's and the difference is night and day. The 264/260's would run out of breath around 5000rpms while the DRC268's will keep pulling till about 6800rpms. I have plenty of torque down low there is never a drive-ability issue. If you ever want to get a really fun mod after the cams get a 3.94 R&P Final Drive that mod is another night and day experience b/c it gets your engine into the power band much quicker. Well Good luck I agree with everyone else that the drc268's are probably the best cam you can get for the money today.

[carroot1]

I agree with the rest I would get drc268's. I have them in my car and before I had TT264/260's and the difference is night and day. The 264/260's would run out of breath around 5000rpms while the DRC268's will keep pulling till about 6800rpms. I have plenty of torque down low there is never a drive-ability issue. If you ever want to get a really fun mod after the cams get a 3.94 R&P Final Drive that mod is another night and day experience b/c it gets your engine into the power band much quicker. Well Good luck I agree with everyone else that the drc268's are probably the best cam you can get for the money today.

thanks, just guna take some time to get everything together and installed. I'll post an update when/if this happens

[JohnStamos]

IMHO if you going to do the trouble of pulling the head to do a gasket and HD springs go with a larger cam (Schrick 268s).

Agreed.

My advice/course of action is:

Milder then 262's (DRC 256, ect) Don't bother.

Autotech 262's. Head stays on, stock springs, new lifters, done.

268's(TT, DRC, Shrick ect) Head comes off, swap out the springs, new lifters, light clean up on the SSR and bowls, back cut the valves, good valve job, cut head to deshroud, hottank, new valve seals, Mk4 gasket, done.

272-276 Skip them and go to 288's.

288+ You shouldn't be needing to ask for advice if planning on running them.


If going through the work of pulling the head and swapping the gasket, it doesn't make much sense to run 262's after all that work. But then again if pulling the head, it doesn't make sense not to spend a few hours and ~$200 cleaning up the head before throwing it back together.


With this process, it's the difference between dropping in 262's adding ~8hp with the same powerband, and doing 268's,light headwork, and Mk4 gasket, adding ~15-20hp through the whole upper powerband, with ALOT more from 6000rpm up. Then you are a induction setup and management away from making good power, without having to tear the long block down again.

[carroot1]

Agreed.

My advice/course of action is:

Milder then 262's (DRC 256, ect) Don't bother.

Autotech 262's. Head stays on, stock springs, new lifters, done.

268's(TT, DRC, Shrick ect) Head comes off, swap out the springs, new lifters, light clean up on the SSR and bowls, back cut the valves, good valve job, cut head to deshroud, hottank, new valve seals, Mk4 gasket, done.

272-276 Skip them and go to 288's.

288+ You shouldn't be needing to ask for advice if planning on running them.


If going through the work of pulling the head and swapping the gasket, it doesn't make much sense to run 262's after all that work. But then again if pulling the head, it doesn't make sense not to spend a few hours and ~$200 cleaning up the head before throwing it back together.


With this process, it's the difference between dropping in 262's adding ~8hp with the same powerband, and doing 268's,light headwork, and Mk4 gasket, adding ~15-20hp through the whole upper powerband, with ALOT more from 6000rpm up. Then you are a induction setup and management away from making good power, without having to tear the long block down again.

what do you mean by "back cut the valves, good valve job, cut head to deshroud, hottank, new valve seals" is that all necessary?

[need_a_VR6]

Necessary, that is very subjective.

[JohnStamos]

what do you mean by "back cut the valves, good valve job, cut head to deshroud, hottank, new valve seals" is that all necessary?

Some of it is not "necessary" in any way, some is necessary depending on the condition of the head.


Ex. Valve seals are not "necessary" unless they are bad.
BUT, if you already have the springs off, not replacing the valve seals doesn't make sense, as they are cheap, and a PAIN to do on the car.


Back cutting the valves isn't necessary at all, but it is worth a couple CFM in flow. If you already have the head apart, and at the machine shop/ability to do it yourself, it's a "why not" thing.

Valve job is dependent on head condition. If they don't leak, no "need" to do it, but they head is already off, and if you already have 100k miles, why wouldn't you? A good multi angle valve job is also worth some CFM as well, so again, it is beneficial.

Cutting/skimming the head is needed depending on head surface condition, and flatness. Mk3 12v's tend to have a VERY rough head surface, but they rarely seem to warp. There are other small advantages to skimming the head on a Vr as well, but I wont get into that here as it always starts a huge discussion. But if you are already rebuilding the whole head, not flycutting it as well to give it a nice RA doesn't make sense.

Hottanking is needed after any machine work/porting. Different people/shops do this different. Some pull all the plugs, disassemble, hottank, then port/machine ect, then tank it again, then rinse. Some just wait until after all the machine work is done. Some do a mixture of both depending on how dirty the parts are.






But honestly, and please don't take this offensive in anyway, if you have to ask "whats a valve job, what are valve seals, ect" you really shouldn't be considering anything other then 262, as it is most likely beyond your current mechanical ability. Unless you are planning on having a shop do it all, in which case, you are looking at $2000+ for everything mentioned, which is in no way worth it.

[running_corrado]

And if your looking at 2k on laborit will be very expensive...
I got new hd springs, lifters, drc 268, guides, seals, mk4hg, Arp head studs, um software, machine shop labor, valve cover gasket, exhaust manifold gaskets, spark plugs, new g12, oil, crack pipe and thermostat housing kit, and I think im forgetting some other things.. but just that stuff as around 2 k as well.. luckily i installed everything with the help of my friends so that saved money. So before you decide to build your motor just know that it will add up fast!

And if your chains haven't been done in a while that adds a whole lot more money, headaches, and things that you might as well do while its opened up. Clutch, lightweight flywheel, rear main seal. And if you aerial having a shop do everything that will make it WAY more expensive. Hope that helps.

[carroot1]

And if your looking at 2k on laborit will be very expensive...
I got new hd springs, lifters, drc 268, guides, seals, mk4hg, Arp head studs, um software, machine shop labor, valve cover gasket, exhaust manifold gaskets, spark plugs, new g12, oil, crack pipe and thermostat housing kit, and I think im forgetting some other things.. but just that stuff as around 2 k as well.. luckily i installed everything with the help of my friends so that saved money. So before you decide to build your motor just know that it will add up fast!

And if your chains haven't been done in a while that adds a whole lot more money, headaches, and things that you might as well do while its opened up. Clutch, lightweight flywheel, rear main seal. And if you aerial having a shop do everything that will make it WAY more expensive. Hope that helps.

im not to worried about labor, since my girlfriends dad will be installing them (mechanic)

[98GTI_VR6]

get 268's drc
get hd springs
get valve seals
get lifters(cam followers)
get mk4 headgasket
get valve cover gasket
get rid of the sai pump
get a freeze plug or the 42dd plug
get the chip
get intake gaskets
get valve cover gasket

looking at anywhere from 600-800 dollars in parts
lol which is still basicly cheaper than just getting schrieks 268's by them selves.

[carroot1]

get 268's drc - will order
get hd springs will order
get valve seals - where to buy?
get lifters(cam followers) - will order
get mk4 headgasket - only if head is removed
get valve cover gasket - check
get rid of the sai pump - explain?
get a freeze plug or the 42dd plug - explain?
get the chip - eventually
get intake gaskets -check
get valve cover gasket - double check

looking at anywhere from 600-800 dollars in parts
lol which is still basicly cheaper than just getting schrieks 268's by them selves.

explain plz

[Grabbit]

^ SAI is Secondary Air injection. A system that pumps air around the exhaust valves on initial start up to fool the O2 sensors. If you do a search you will find a lot in this forum on it. Its on the front side of the head under the intake manifold burried. 42 draft designs makes a block off plate so you can delete the entire system and plug the hole in the head.

And BTW, get a chip FIRST before doing cams. I'can't imagine a car running right on stock management with cams, especially going into summer. This scenario spells knock (something VRs are finicky with already)

Valve seals should come with a head gasket "kit"

[carroot1]

^ SAI is Secondary Air injection. A system that pumps air around the exhaust valves on initial start up to fool the O2 sensors. If you do a search you will find a lot in this forum on it. Its on the front side of the head under the intake manifold burried. 42 draft designs makes a block off plate so you can delete the entire system and plug the hole in the head.

And BTW, get a chip FIRST before doing cams. I'can't imagine a car running right on stock management with cams, especially going into summer. This scenario spells knock (something VRs are finicky with already)

Valve seals should come with a head gasket "kit"

if i buy a chip dont i have to send my ecu in first?

[Grabbit]

if i buy a chip dont i have to send my ecu in first?

You could probably find someone local to flash it or even find an entire ECU in the classifieds to have on the side......

[Grabbit]

So from all I've read the (here and in other threads) 268s seems to be the best. But which ones? i know Shricks are the ideal cam but are expensive, the DRCs pretty much do the same thing and are a whole lot cheaper.

Someone sell me and the OP on a 268 cam set.....

[carroot1]

So from all I've read the (here and in other threads) 268s seems to be the best. But which ones? i know Shricks are the ideal cam but are expensive, the DRCs pretty much do the same thing and are a whole lot cheaper.

Someone sell me and the OP on a 268 cam set.....

im already sold on the drc 268s. from what i read the cams are the same as the shrick 268s and add up to 20 hp. a lot of high end power is gained.