Latest Mk7 Rumour - Golf GTI to get 260bhp

[MKVmyfast]

Hope some of these rumors are true might be tempted to buy a new gti again

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[SHIPARCH]

Any talk of transmission on the GTI? Are we getting the 7-speed DSG?

[bmwgtiman]

In this gen I don't feel the R was worth every penny over the GTI.

GTI has the excellent TSI engine... R got the the FSI.

R is saddled with electronic nannies... hell it only pulls a .82 on the skid pad.

There is no cloth option on the R. So for folks like me that want Cloth, Sun and Nav Package the difference is $9,000 if you take into account real world discounts.

Also we didnt have to get the run around from VWoA for 18mos on the GTI. VW make the R a every year car and make it special like an STI!!!!

Good news is the MK7 GTI will be here next year with LSD and having shed ~150lbs. Even if they give us a modest power bump to 235 the weight savings will make it a great package.

All these things you mentioned have been beaten to death even on the MKVI R Forum. I actually was going to buy a 2012 GTI to replace my MKIV GTI. My heavily modded 2001 GTI was very fast but it was just time for a new car.

The 2012 GTI with the autobahn package comes in at 29,995. Add all wheel drive, bigger brakes, bigger turbo, better looking front spoiler, more exclusive, better resale value and I think it is worth the $6,000. extra. (I paid 36,000 for the loaded 2 dr).

True the GTI has the newer TSI engine. The Golf R has the older engine which has been used in the Audi TTS for a few years now. They are both 2.0T engines but the Golf R has beefier internals.

Don't know where you got the .82 on the skidpad but according to the test (January 2012 Road and Track) summary it was .89 which isn't to shabby. I think the Subaru WRX STI had a .91, and that is on summer tires compared to the all weather tires on the GOLF R.

When it comes to the cloth seat design, I would shoot myself if I had to look at it for more than a day.

The run around you speak of is going to happen with a car that is a bit more exclusive. I ordered my Golf R in September. Got it in January which allowed me to save a bit more for the down payment. I lined up a guy that wanted my 2001 GTI. The day I sold it I went to the dealer and picked up my new R. It was well worth the wait.

I never heard anyone say, damn........I should have gotten a GTI instead of a Golf R. But I have heard GTI owners say they wish they got the R.

If you think the MKVII GTI is going to be badazz.........well I am sure it will. What do you think the next generation R will be like? Oh, BTW, the R isn't going anywhere!

[1-VW]

This is the main issue that a lot of forum members fail to understand, the GTi is not a hot hatch, its a mild hatch.

..................

I very much doubt that VW wish to have the GTI relegated to the "mild hatch" category

[feels_road]

Any talk of transmission on the GTI? Are we getting the 7-speed DSG?

Is there a 7-speed oil-bath DSG for the transverse engine layout? The dry-clutch version is still severely limited in the amount of torque it can handle.

[1-VW]

Is there a 7-speed oil-bath DSG for the transverse engine layout? The dry-clutch version is still severely limited in the amount of torque it can handle.

The new S3 should leave some clues soon. My dream setup is a seven speed oil-bath with only one overdrive gear. It will drive like its pissed.

Edit: On second thoughts, the TTRS has a 7-speed wet clutch setup and I believe the engine is transverse. Therefore it looks like we have 7-speeder running around in the wild.

[feels_road]

Edit: On second thoughts, the TTRS has a 7-speed wet clutch setup and I believe the engine is transverse. Therefore it looks like we have 7-speeder running around in the wild.

Ah - I forgot about the TT RS plus. The regular TT RS comes with a 6-speed DSG. Yes, that one is transverse.

[1-VW]

The suspense is too much to bear .

[vr6fanatic]

Hopefully Volkswagen realizes that the compition is getting pretty thick. For example the All new Ford Focus St 2.0 turbo charged putting out an impressive 252 HP.

We all know (most of us do) that horsepower isn't everything, but I honestly believe that in order to stay in the game, you'll have to keep up with the jones!

[1-VW]

We all know (most of us do) that horsepower isn't everything, but I honestly believe that in order to stay in the game, you'll have to keep up with the jones!

I agree, an incremental upgrade in power will be disappointing to many. We all know that interior quality and handling are what set the GTI apart from the competition blah blah blah...............personally I believe that line is becoming tiresome.

A quick survey of the 2.0 liter (turbo) engines that have been released over the past year will show that the bar has been shifted to 250+ hp. Turbo power is cheap power and there is really no good excuse for an under-powered turbocharged engine, beside blatant stubbornness.

However we have no official word on the output, therefore there is still a good chance that we will have the GTI with a competitive power output.

[jamie@vwvortex]

Don't look for 260hp in the GTI. There needs to be room for the Golf R. All indications are that the Golf 7 GTI would have closer to 230-240hp.

As a side note there is a practical limit to the amount of power through front wheel drive before traction becomes a significant issue. This is the reason why cars like the MazdaSpeed3 and Ford Focus ST have to have torque steer compensations systems that either counteract with electronic steering inputs or via reduced power when the wheel is turned a certain amount.

With the next GTI being lighter and having a real mechanical locking differential (at least optionally) I think you'll find that the car will be more competitive than the paper spec suggests.

-jamie

[Eurofan4eva]

If the limit of the 2.0T is going to be 260hp and the new GTI is going to be 240hp, then the next R better have a different engine...

[PUMA4kicks]

With the next GTI being lighter and having a real mechanical locking differential (at least optionally) I think you'll find that the car will be more competitive than the paper spec suggests.

-jamie

hopefully, VWOA is on top of things and gives us that option as std. equipment.

[1-VW]

Don't look for 260hp in the GTI. There needs to be room for the Golf R. All indications are that the Golf 7 GTI would have closer to 230-240hp.

.........With the next GTI being lighter and having a real mechanical locking differential (at least optionally) I think you'll find that the car will be more competitive than the paper spec suggests.

-jamie

The Seat Leon article gives the weight savings as "up to 198lbs. less". Can we expect the same weight savings for the Golf and will the additional weight savings of the GTI be in addition to the ~198 lbs savings. If this turns out to be the case then I can see why 240 hp will launch it into outer-space .

[1-VW]

hopefully, VWOA is on top of things and gives us that option as std. equipment.

The active Diff will be a game changer for FWD performance cars, I cant imagine that it will be standard. However I do believe it should be packaged with a +10 hp/lb.ft increase and electronic shocks.

[PUMA4kicks]

If that extra HP doesn't come from the factory at least we know it will come from APR

[1-VW]

If that extra HP doesn't come from the factory at least we know it will come from APR

That is correct, I just do not like the idea of cracking the ECU. I wish APR will develop a tuning module that plugs in on the wiring harness ahead of the ECU without any need to rewrite the VW codes or re-flash after a dealer software update. Less problems too with insurance companies, if you are involved in an accident, you can rip the module off and still have your stock ECU. Talk about having your cake and eating it too .

[MKV Aaron]

I have said from the beginning that I thought the MKVII will have 230HP. We shall see how close my guess actually is...

Couple that with a 200lb weight loss, an active LSD like Audi's sport diff, and you could have a mighty quick GTI.

[bmwgtiman]

If the limit of the 2.0T is going to be 260hp and the new GTI is going to be 240hp, then the next R better have a different engine...

Like the Audi TT-RS 2.5T engine. Maybe with less hp though. Around the 320 hp mark would be sweet. Something to make the EVO and WRX STI owners feel bad!

[brilliantgti]

^agreed, since Audi won't bring the rs3 to North America, why doesn't VW throw the ttrs motor in the next gen r and give us all what we really want and need. A 5 door hatch with 4motion and tons of power. I could care less what they do to the gti if they sampled up that 5cyl turbo motor in their top of the range hot hatch....45-50k range US asking price and i think you'd have something special.

[Mo_Focus]

GTI to have 260HP isnt that big of a number anymore.

Face it when Sonata's and Camry's have about 270, GTI's better have something in that ball park. Afterall you dont want someone in family car to pass you!

As for the R, fair number would be around 300HP and AWD, that way it will be worth the extra 10K price increase.

[bmwgtiman]

[QUOTE=Mo_Focus;78300814]
Afterall you dont want someone in family car to pass you!

I was stationed in Germany for 7 years while in the Army. Came back to the states and my new unit sent me back temporary duty for 2 weeks with a guy who never had been there. We rented a BMW 3 series 2 door for the weekend and I was driving to Munich when he says " I have never driven on the autobahn, you mind if I drive?" So I pulled over. He was driving about 110 mph when a 5 series station wagen passed us like we were standing still. Don't know what exactly it was but I think it was like a 540, lowered, fat rear tires, a few other mods. He felt bad and I just busted out laughing. I told him it was not his dads station wagen with the wood panels on the side. Alot of badazz family cars over there!

[1-VW]

Here is an introduction to the new 2.0T that audi has developed. A variation may find it's way into the MK7 GTI. My gut feeling is that this engine is designed purely for efficiency and will never see duty in an high performance application. Long live the EA113.

http://blog.caranddriver.com/audi-gi...rbo-diesel-v6/

[diduceme]

230 hp + weight reduction should make it closer to the competition, im down.

[dmorrow]

Here is an introduction to the new 2.0T that audi has developed. A variation may find it's way into the MK7 GTI. My gut feeling is that this engine is designed purely for efficiency and will never see duty in an high performance application. Long live the EA113.

http://blog.caranddriver.com/audi-gi...rbo-diesel-v6/

The article says it should go into the A4 in a year or so and currently has 225 hp. I don't expect the GTI to get more HP than the A4. Why would VW/Audi want it to?

[1-VW]

The article says it should go into the A4 in a year or so and currently has 225 hp. I don't expect the GTI to get more HP than the A4. Why would VW/Audi want it to?

The bigger concern is; why are they releasing it with 225 hp while the current BMW 2.0T is developing 250 whp and is/will be available with AWD.

[HalvieCuw]

The bigger concern is; why are they releasing it with 225 hp while the current BMW 2.0T is developing 250 whp and is/will be available with AWD.

The even bigger concern is; why is the exhaust manifold integrated into the head? They can shove that engine up their ass. Is the fmic still integrated into the intake manifold too?

[dmorrow]

The bigger concern is; why are they releasing it with 225 hp while the current BMW 2.0T is developing 250 whp and is/will be available with AWD.

Dyno testing of BMW 2.0T in 328

http://www.automobilemag.com/feature..._dyno_results/


Here we go again: a new engine in a new 3-series, and just like last time, the Internet blows up with rumors that the Bavarians have underrated the power output. As always, there's only one way to find out, so we strapped our 2012 BMW 328i onto a DynoJet dynamometer and measured what happened.

Long story short, the 2.0-liter turbo four-cylinder put down 222 hp and 245 lb-ft of torque. [It is rated at 240 hp and 260 lb-ft at the crank.] More important than the peak numbers is, of course, the shape of the curve. And here, the N20 does exactly what we expected: it makes a plateau of torque across the low and middle rpm ranges, and then it tapers off as the turbo's airflow capacity nears.

Are the numbers high? Well yeah -- this is a lot of power for a four-cylinder, especially one with minimal turbo lag. But did BMW underrate this engine at 240 hp? Nah, we don't think so: this number is a little higher than you'd normally expect, but we're guessing that BMW used the 240-hp number as a kind of "worst case scenario" meaning that's the minimum power you can expect in hot conditions. [For the record, as you can see from the chart below, the N20 puts out 92.5% of peak horsepower to the wheels--similar to both the N54 and N55 six-cylinders. Remember also from our previous dyno articles that we've always published a very conservative result for these engines: early N54s would occasionally put closer to 290 hp to the wheels (and well over 300 lb-ft of torque.) Those engines were a bit stronger than the new single-turbo N55, even though even that engine also put down over 300 lb-ft to the wheels.]

Another interesting engine to compare the N20 to is the normally aspirated straight-six it replaces. In 2007, we took an E85-chassis Z4 3.0si to the dyno. That car used one of the most powerful versions of the N52B30 3.0-liter straight six, rated at 255 hp and 225 lb-ft of torque. (The "28i" version of the N52 was rated at 230 hp and 200 lb-ft. Technically, the N20 replaces this engine, but it's safe to say that the turbo four clobbers that variant in its output.)

The N52 six put down 231 hp, beating the turbo N20 by 9 horsepower. That's well within the noise of the two engine's 15-hp rating spread. The story is similar for peak torque: the Z4 put down 211 lb-ft, or 93.7% of its rated value. The N20's 245 lb-ft dyno result is similar at 94.2%.

We wouldn't use the term "underrated" to describe the N20, just as we wouldn't use the term for the N55, either. We prefer to describe its output as "generous."

More importantly, I've personally spent 2000 miles behind the wheel of the 2012 BMW 328i, and I'm going to quietly take the crown from Volkswagen's EA888 "2.0T" four-cylinder and crown the N20 as the best turbocharged four-cylinder on the market. It clearly makes its advertised horsepower, and I've found that it easily matches its EPA fuel economy numbers. It's smooth, it's quiet, it's responsive, and turbo lag is minimal. Bravo to BMW for an engine that's nothing short of brilliant. As to its qualities as base engine for those non-hardcore buyers who aren't looking for that distinctive straight-six experience, it's definitely underrated.
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I think a big part of the population won't care about the 15 hp. I think you'll find an AWD A4 with the same spec is considerably cheaper than an AWD 328i.

[514passatvr6]

Guys I don't know why everyone is complaining about 230hp or 260hp... the most important factor is that it comes with the k04 turbo from the factory. I don't want to 230hp using a k03.

[Boosted2003!]

Guys I don't know why everyone is complaining about 230hp or 260hp... the most important factor is that it comes with the k04 turbo from the factory. I don't want to 230hp using a k03.

Depends on what is considered the new K03 because the K03 in MK5 makes pretty much same power as K04 in Mk4.

[randomkoreanguy]

Guys I don't know why everyone is complaining about 230hp or 260hp... the most important factor is that it comes with the k04 turbo from the factory. I don't want to 230hp using a k03.

I think what's more important than the actual model and variant of turbo they use is how the power is delivered and what it feels like when you step on the accelerator. So many auto manufacturers share parts suppliers these days (VW, for example, isn't the only auto manufacturer that uses Haldex all wheel drive systems) that it comes down to how the parts are all engineered to work together and how it feels like to drive than what the actual part is and where it comes from. In many cases you'll have direct competitor cars that use some of the same components from the same supplier (like the same ZF transmission, for example), but they'll feel radically different because of how they've been tweaked to work with that specific car/engine/chassis.

[1-VW]

I think 514passatvr6 is concerned about the tuning potential, which with all things being optimized (fuel pumps; injectors etc) the K04 is also my top pick.

[514passatvr6]

Depends on what is considered the new K03 because the K03 in MK5 makes pretty much same power as K04 in Mk4.

which k04 in mk4? Are we talking TT k04 or k04-001? A TT K04 in an mk4 is faster than a k03 mk5.

My K03 mk4 was almost just as fast as k03 mk5.

I don't even know why you are bringing in mk4 k04's into this. When I mean K04, I am talking the K04's that oem s3, tts, apr and awe tuning kits style k04.

[514passatvr6]

I think 514passatvr6 is concerned about the tuning potential, which with all things being optimized (fuel pumps; injectors etc) the K04 is also my top pick.

Exactly.... I couldn't care less if there is a detuned s3 motor in there with 230hp, the 30th and pirelli edition make 230hp with a k04. Downpipe and chip it's 300hp++

"new" k03 mk5/mk6 are not that fast and make at least 50hp less than a k04 which is a big difference.

If you are talking about "power delivery" when it comes to a k03 vs k04, k04 is a better turbo in all aspects.

[Waterfan]

I agree 260HP is a pipe dream.

I am guessing 235 underrated HP w/ Valvelift.

^This