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    Thread: Cosumer reports bashed the beetle

    1. 06-13-2012 07:39 AM #26
      It's quite surprising that they didn't recommend the Yaris, because it hails from the Land of the Rising Sun. After all, and even though the Beetle and that Scion had the same score, the Beetle was ignored. How convenient! But then again, to make it look like they are not as biased toward Japanese makes as they actually are, I guess CR had to pass on the Yaris. For otherwise, it would be too obvious......

      In short, Consumer Reports doesn't know their ass from a hole in the ground. They use very small sampling demographics to determine car reliability and assume that every car of a certain make will have the same issues that a few respondents reported. They also ignore the fact that those with few or no problems don't bother to take their surveys. I would guess that maybe 2-3% of a particular make of car owners even bother to fill out their questionairres. For one thing, you have to belong to the Consumer's Union. Then, if (what is it? 14%?) of that 2-3% have a common issue, it is automatically assumed that every car of that make across the board will likewise have the same problems, and so it gets a black mark. Even if this rang true, they further ignore the fact that this means that 86% of those cars would still be fine.
      Last edited by fiftysomething; 06-13-2012 at 07:48 AM.

    2. Moderator silverspeedbuggy's Avatar
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      06-13-2012 08:17 AM #27
      It's also disappointing that they've rated the 2.5L but not the Turbo. Their handling and MPG complaints would be eliminated right there. I feel the Turbo is a completely different car from the 2.5 much in the same way the GTI is regarded as a completely seperate model. Imagine if CR used 2.5L Golf in their tests in place of a GTI.

      BUT I do admit I haven't seen the article, so perhaps they are reviewing the 2.5L as compared to other naturally aspirated cars. Was the MINI a base model or an S? The Veloster was the non-turbo model as the forced-induction model is not out yet.

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      06-13-2012 08:48 AM #28
      Think I agree w/ SilverSpeed. If it was the "sporty cars" category, why the heck wouldn't they use the Turbo version? The 2.5L sounds like it would have fit in better in the "subcompact hatchbacks" category. That said, I'm not letting their "assessment" of the Beetle bother me - I mine!

      GTarr

    4. Geriatric Member Aonarch's Avatar
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      06-13-2012 10:07 AM #29
      Quote Originally Posted by GTarr View Post
      Think I agree w/ SilverSpeed. If it was the "sporty cars" category, why the heck wouldn't they use the Turbo version? The 2.5L sounds like it would have fit in better in the "subcompact hatchbacks" category. That said, I'm not letting their "assessment" of the Beetle bother me - I mine!

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      06-13-2012 03:32 PM #30
      I test drove a fully loaded Veloster and both the 2.5 and the Turbo Beetle. I thought the Veloster felt much cheaper on the inside and didn't handle as well. The price point and gas mileage is certainly much nicer on the Veloster, even fully loaded. In the end, the Beetle felt like a more stable car and more attuned to what I wanted in a vehicle. Consumer Reports can suck it.

    6. Geriatric Member Aonarch's Avatar
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      06-13-2012 04:34 PM #31
      Quote Originally Posted by katie78 View Post
      I test drove a fully loaded Veloster and both the 2.5 and the Turbo Beetle. I thought the Veloster felt much cheaper on the inside and didn't handle as well. The price point and gas mileage is certainly much nicer on the Veloster, even fully loaded. In the end, the Beetle felt like a more stable car and more attuned to what I wanted in a vehicle. Consumer Reports can suck it.
      Hyundai's are usually over rated for EPA.
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    7. 06-13-2012 08:54 PM #32
      CR consistently rated the NB at the bottom among against the competition, particularly on reliability.

      I just came back from a 1600mi trip and my '01 has 202,5xx miles.

      Oh wait... the CEL just lit up to make CR happy.


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      06-14-2012 02:38 AM #33
      Quote Originally Posted by Cadenza_7o View Post
      CR consistently rated the NB at the bottom among against the competition, particularly on reliability.

      I just came back from a 1600mi trip and my '01 has 202,5xx miles.

      Oh wait... the CEL just lit up to make CR happy.

      Nope. CR scored the NB very high went it first came out. It wasn't recommended because it had below average reliability from CR's survey through the years.

      As to others who keep saying that CR has always hated VWs, the B5 Passat was always rated very high by CR through its lifetime. It outscored the Honda Accord and Toyota Camry consistently. The Passat V6 was recommended by CR, but not the 1.8T due to its below average reliability scores.

      As to others who wonder why the 2.5L Beetle was tested in their "sporty cars" category instead of the 2.0T, the category was just sporty 2-door cars. The highly scoring Mini was the base version, not the turbo. There were only five cars in the category: MINI base, Veloster, Scion tC, Fiat 500, and the Beetle, all with their base engines.

      Oh, CR does recommend the Golf 2.5L. It didn't score as high as the Golf TDI, but it still scored very well, and its reliability in CR's survey was better than average.

      I don't agree with CR's score of the 2011 Jetta SE. I think they just scored it pretty low because they didn't like the cost-cutting they saw. It was the same with the Civic. They scored it very low for the same reason. They tested the high mileage Civic HF (in the latest issue) and bashed it some more (scored it a 61). Same with the 2012 Nissan Versa sedan in a previous isse. It scored a 53. As to the 2011 Jetta, they did mention that other trim lines (TDI, GLI) should be much better than the one they did test, but they haven't done a full test on the other Jettas.

      Now, I'll try to shut up again, unless someone posts other things on this that are just wrong.
      Last edited by shgolden; 06-14-2012 at 03:05 AM.

    9. 06-14-2012 04:51 AM #34
      I didn't follow CR in 98 when the NB was released. By 2001 when mine was purchased, looking at CR scoring of the NB was depressing. Didn't care much though since I had a decent idea of the weaknesses of the power and drivetrain.

      I also have the '06 Mini Cooper S with 41k... so far it has more warranty repair than my 202k NB, just little things though.

      You're correct that CR recommended the B5 Passat.

      Does CR have recommendations for shirt pocket protectors?
      Last edited by Cadenza_7o; 06-14-2012 at 04:59 AM.

    10. 06-14-2012 02:30 PM #35
      CR may rate some Volkswagens' handling or fit and finish highly, but the Average Joe/Josephine doesn't look at that. They look at reliability. That is what counts the most. And that is where CR consistently praises Japanese cars and bashes VW (in most cases). In that respect, they can indeed suck it.

      Worse yet, you have JD Powers. They have this ranking based on "problems per 100 cars." Here's an example of how JDP is set up:

      Lets suppose over a 5-year period, Car A blows a head gasket.
      Now, let's suppose during that same amount of time, a Volkswagen will have a burned out headlight and a power window switch go out.

      Therefore, according to JDP, VWs are twice as problematic as Car A!

    11. Geriatric Member Aonarch's Avatar
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      06-14-2012 02:58 PM #36
      Quote Originally Posted by fiftysomething View Post
      CR may rate some Volkswagens' handling or fit and finish highly, but the Average Joe/Josephine doesn't look at that. They look at reliability. That is what counts the most. And that is where CR consistently praises Japanese cars and bashes VW (in most cases). In that respect, they can indeed suck it.

      Worse yet, you have JD Powers. They have this ranking based on "problems per 100 cars." Here's an example of how JDP is set up:

      Lets suppose over a 5-year period, Car A blows a head gasket.
      Now, let's suppose during that same amount of time, a Volkswagen will have a burned out headlight and a power window switch go out.

      Therefore, according to JDP, VWs are twice as problematic as Car A!


      I already am getting some trim pieces replaced, window motors, and a side mirror. It is all minor stuff though, so whatever, but in JD Power's mind that is the most unreliable POS on the earth.
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    12. Member Farnsworth's Avatar
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      09-12-2012 05:07 PM #37
      CR is

      The best cars I've ever owned (VW and Audi) = bashed by CR.

      The worst cars I've ever owned (Japanese and GM) = loved by CR.
      Life = f { , , , }

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      09-12-2012 07:13 PM #38
      I do not buy anything CR recommends, from a toaster oven to a car, they are just like movie critics.

    14. 09-12-2012 07:20 PM #39
      Quote Originally Posted by silverspeedbuggy View Post
      CR has never been a VW fan.
      You can say that again.

      I have always felt that these magazines are all bias. Or their palms are itchy and not scratched enough.

      the larges POS I have ever own was the Scion XB 2nd edition. It had serious weld issues. AND CR said one of the best cars ever made. Pony POOP.

      My best car was an A4 i had for one summer. my dads
      Last edited by Babie; 09-12-2012 at 07:27 PM.

    15. 09-15-2012 11:30 AM #40
      I like VWs and Audis. I've had atleast two of them at any given time over the course of 13+ years. That being said, I think the criticism they get is well deserved and not the result of bias.

      Regardless of my anodotal experience with them or yours. Independent of your experience with other brands, VWs are usually priced above competitive models and cost more to own over these same vehicles. This additional cost does not appear to come with increased reliability. VW has earned a reputation and the only way they can shed it is to reduce thier warranty cost (improve the quality) I continue to buy them currently but I never recommend them to friends and collegues who have high expectations for trouble-free driving.

      I'm not impressed with CR but I think VW's products have earned themselves a certain visibility in thier eyes.
      Last edited by VR6Now; 09-15-2012 at 05:16 PM.

    16. 09-15-2012 07:35 PM #41
      Quote Originally Posted by VR6Now View Post
      I like VWs and Audis. I've had atleast two of them at any given time over the course of 13+ years. That being said, I think the criticism they get is well deserved and not the result of bias.

      Regardless of my anodotal experience with them or yours. Independent of your experience with other brands, VWs are usually priced above competitive models and cost more to own over these same vehicles. This additional cost does not appear to come with increased reliability. VW has earned a reputation and the only way they can shed it is to reduce thier warranty cost (improve the quality) I continue to buy them currently but I never recommend them to friends and collegues who have high expectations for trouble-free driving.

      I'm not impressed with CR but I think VW's products have earned themselves a certain visibility in thier eyes.
      Same here... I wouldn't recommend VW/Audis or most European brands to relatives and friends who've mostly had Japanese cars. Most of my relatives who drive German cars lease them instead of buying. Those with MB/BMW/Audis might have less nagging issues but their maintenance/repair bills are much higher than VWs. One cousin who bought a late '90s MB E420 said it's his worst car ownership experience. It doesn't get driven much because he's scared silly of the repair bills but won't let it go because he's the brand worshipper. Another relative who recently bought his first MB ('10 E350) loaded up on extended warranties just in case... the jury is still out on that one.

      Personally, I've been lucky with my current '01 NB 1.8T (205k) and had over 300k on a '81 Audi 4000. I've kept the cost of ownership low by learning to maintain and fix things myself and buying late in each generation. To date my 11.75yr/205k old NB has cost only $6900 for maintenance, repair, wear-n-tear or $587/yr. Not bad considering it gets on average 17,500mi per year. And AFAIK, my Mexican taped-together NB is the only car that's gone over 200k in the clan.
      Last edited by Cadenza_7o; 09-15-2012 at 07:45 PM.

    17. 09-16-2012 11:55 AM #42
      I had a 2001 VW Beetle TDI that I kick myself a little every day for unloading. No issues with cam wear, (1.9 PD 2005-2006 MK5) or HPFPs (2.0 CR 2009+). It doesn't seem like VW knows what its doing with the current diesels. At least the Passat TDI seems ok right now.

      VW isn't a victim of bias. With window regulator issues (MK4 & B5 A4), FSI oil consumption issues, 1.8T premature timing belt failures, TSI intake manifold flapper & chain tensioner issues, DSG failures, DMF problems, and the current Beetles window problem, they have to a certain extent made their own bed. Even the 2012 Golf R has been experiencing a water pump failure which take the whole engine out. It's in small numbers thus far but a water pump should not typically result in a new engine but it does in this case.
      Last edited by VR6Now; 09-16-2012 at 12:21 PM.

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      09-19-2012 01:18 AM #43
      Quote Originally Posted by katie78 View Post
      I test drove a fully loaded Veloster and both the 2.5 and the Turbo Beetle.

      I thought the Veloster felt much cheaper on the inside and didn't handle as well. The price point and gas mileage is certainly much nicer on the Veloster, even fully loaded.

      In the end, the Beetle felt like a more stable car and more attuned to what I wanted in a vehicle. Consumer Reports can suck it.
      x2. I too recently test drove a Veloster and a 2012 Base Beetle w/2.5 auto.

      The Veloster is a severely under powered cheap roller skate. The Beetle is much more solid, comfortable and capable cruiser. A corner cutter road burner it is not, but would make a fine commuter car (which I'm considering buying). A local dealer is offering $2000 OFF all Beetles currently. Very enticing to say the least!

    19. Member LEBlackRob's Avatar
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      09-19-2012 10:37 AM #44
      Lol after reading all of it must say who cares. It seems like it has been for ever that consumer reports have been out. I feel that it is a nice way to do some looking into things, but most of there time the articles are very lame. As in the fact that they bash things with little to no knowledge and rarely state facts correctly. It would be like going to a middle school bus driver and asking him what laptop to buy. If you need to see what people have noticed that have owned the car this is a great tool to get idea's on things. I mean come on we all have are own personal taste and will choose to like or hate things all on are own. Consumer reports have bashed things that I have liked in the past. So just move on with life and laugh at the fact that they think there car had drum rear brakes. I have access to ETKA and there is only one option for rear brake on the Beetle for US models and that is Bosch rear disc's.

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      09-26-2012 07:14 PM #45
      I don't trust anything consumer reports says. Never have, never will. I've found that their reports tend to be biased.
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    21. 09-26-2012 07:32 PM #46
      Quote Originally Posted by Katmandu View Post
      x2. I too recently test drove a Veloster and a 2012 Base Beetle w/2.5 auto.

      The Veloster is a severely under powered cheap roller skate. The Beetle is much more solid, comfortable and capable cruiser. A corner cutter road burner it is not, but would make a fine commuter car (which I'm considering buying). A local dealer is offering $2000 OFF all Beetles currently. Very enticing to say the least!
      The Veloster is so cheap, FLASH BUT TRASH.

    22. 09-26-2012 08:24 PM #47
      Oh the Versa flat out sucks. Really sucks. had if for a day while my bug was stopping in the dealership to say "hello". Nothing wrong with it, we just visit for fun occasionally so the service department has something to do... They gave me a rental and it was the versa... Wow, plastic clatters in my bug? compared to the versa I drive a library...

      The problem with a lot of these reviews by the PROS is like a movie critic. They review every movie like its going to be an oscar contender, instead of just a fun outlet. CR and others do the same as if every car made is trying to get car of the year.

    23. Member LEBlackRob's Avatar
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      09-27-2012 11:47 AM #48
      Quote Originally Posted by kballard72 View Post
      Oh the Versa flat out sucks. Really sucks. had if for a day while my bug was stopping in the dealership to say "hello". Nothing wrong with it, we just visit for fun occasionally so the service department has something to do... They gave me a rental and it was the versa... Wow, plastic clatters in my bug? compared to the versa I drive a library...

      The problem with a lot of these reviews by the PROS is like a movie critic. They review every movie like its going to be an oscar contender, instead of just a fun outlet. CR and others do the same as if every car made is trying to get car of the year.
      Coming form my salesmen days. I think that most of the reviewer stuff is a nice tool. Just you can't take it and think you will find all your answers there. I sold VW, Chevy, Hyundia, and Subaru's. In the short time that I worked at a dealer. Won't lie my blood is blue and I am a diehard VW guy, but trust me it was always fun to deal with a know it all. We would get these guys that would live by the research they found on the internet. Until you got them in the car. Now I am going to give you an example, I don't dislike Subaru actually my mom and dad love the company. Consumer reports almost always puts Subaru as one of the best buys. We would have people come in telling us how great they are and you would get them in the car and it was like this is cheap inside. They are great cars they have an amazing AWD system and no one is near there price range with AWD commuter cars but they have to cut the corner some ware unfortunately it is in the interior quality. I had so many customer that would drive an Impreza and a Jetta and leave with a Jetta, or Legacy and CC and leave with a CC. So keep in mind the "Butt" test is always going to be your deciding point just don't show the salesmen all your cards at once.

    24. 09-27-2012 12:22 PM #49
      Quote Originally Posted by LEBlackRob View Post
      the "Butt" test is always going to be your deciding point
      Another idea I read, go test drive a used car of whatever model you are looking at New, with at least a few thousand miles.

      Go drive one that has 4 or 5000 miles on it and see what things are like in a vehicle after some road wear. Most cars are awesome at 000000 and may not be at 005000 or 020000 on the odometer.

      Not as easy with a bug, not so many used ones available.

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      09-27-2012 07:50 PM #50
      CR has got to be the best sham out there, produce a periodical where everyone will buy it based upon the title. They say nothing of value in that thing.

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