Advice for 16 v turbo build....!

[sasha18yug]

Hi guys.... my name is sasha and i live in germany....i plan on doing something that i have dreamed allot: build an golf mk2 turbo and in couple of months i can afford it...i searched the forum and found answers but still i wanted a thread were i can explain everything that i wanna build and also i wanted people to give me answers and advice ....
Here we go... plan is to buy a golf mk2 with an 1.8 16v GTi engine and start the build from there... the car is going to be my second car but i wanted to build it as reliable as posibile with a nice power band and usebale street power for some drag weekends and some nice track days when the time comes....
It is very important that i have all the parts ...in one place and not forget anything because i plan on building this thing in romania togheter with some friends that have skills and garage an tools...

Enough of that lets get to the things that i thought are going to make a nice solid build...

OK....:

Piston and rods to lower the compression...( not sure what brand and what compression )
BBM Intake ,
BBM exhaust manifold and Down pipe
Valve springs and retainers
Some sorth of cams ( i guess its better )
Injectors and fuel pump
What Turbo?
LSD from quaife or peloquin wich one is cheaper and better...
ACT clutch 6 puck or something that is smother ?
Lightend flywheel
ARP head stuts
Engine management system ... VEMS or MS ?
Some CAI ...
Catback exhaust ...
Oil cooler kit if needed

As far as power goals ... i would like to hit the 300 whp mark...and maybe run some 12s quater mile times if that is doable...but then after some time i would want more power... i am trying to build it to last long and be reliable ...future number should be 380 -400 whp..... i work hard for the money i'm investing in this project....my budget for the hole car is 12000 euros...car costs somewhere between 2000 and 2500 in very good shape maybe with some suspension upgrades ....
I also plan on doing some suspension setup ...sway bars , bushings , coilovers ... mybe some brakes if the ones from GTi are to small....
I am also new to the VW scene... i only had volvo cars untill now...so please bare with me..


I know i am forgeting something .... now to the questions :

1: am i taking the right route here with this engine....
2: is the tranny from the gti good enough to handle the power and tourque?
3 : do i need cams and make the head stronger or stock head is also good for what power goals i have...?
4:Wich piston rods combination is best ( price performance oriented... and tested for long term )
5: Engine management is a pain in the a** for me ..cause i have no clue...any chance on getting one with a base tune on one of them so i can get to a tuner ?
6:Wich turbo ?... i was thinking something gt3071 r ... but i dont want full boost at 5k ...something that spools faster would be nice and still hold the power up top...i guess this is every guys dream...lol
7: how much can i rev the engine 7 k is enough for me as long as i have full boost at 4 k...
8: FMIC ... from what company..... no whater meth seems so complicated..
9: BBM sells some short blocks... what is the general opinion about building yours with pistons and roads or getting the block allready build..?
10: what other parts do i need to make this thing run like a champ...?
11: i have not found ( yet ) a source to port and polish the head...i have a builder that is old school and does not port and polish but he will do my valves and all that... is that very important...?
12 : what size injectors are best and what brand?

Sorry guys for all the questions...i hope i can get some answers ...and we can discuss some setups so i can decide and start my build .... Vendors that i know are BBM and 034motorsport... if you have sugestions i am open to sugestions...i plann on getting all the parts that i need and then when i have all that do this build in 2 weeks back home in romania ... so its crucial to have the setup complete when i'm there....

Cheers Sasha

[kompressorgolf]

Seems like you have done some good research,

So the 1.8 or 2.0 16v are easily strong enough, guys on here are making your long term power goals
with stock blocks and stock heads, with 2 headgaskets stacked, so with your plans to do rods and pistons,
you will have no trouble with the engine, while you are there, stick ARP studs in everything you can. uprated s[prings and retainers are an excellent upgrade as are mild turbo cams.

The diffs are both comparable in every way, including price, start with at least an 02A trans with diff and a good
clutch. 020 can hold the power pending on the way you drive, i recommend starting 02A or 02J.

the turbo, i use a plain jane garrett t3/t4 .57 trim, .63 a/r. and it will meet your power goals, spool isnt bad
im seeing full spool (20 psi) at a little over 4000 rpm. its plenty to start with trust me! the expensive BBM
intake isnt really necesarry, but helpful up top. i use a factory intake from scirocco, it works well and cost
nothing.

Now very important is Engine Management, I HIGHLY recommend something you can learn and tune yourself
when i lived in germany, i had to take the car to SLS for everything, its not ideal... I use SDS efi and love it
no laptop needed has its own interface works well datalogs etc. Many dont like it, and it doesnt have as many
options as many other systems, but it does what i need. youll probably need at least 630CC injectors to reach
your goals.

Brakes, you should be sufficient with G60 brakes with uprated pads and rotors, factory disk rears should
be fine.

[weejunGL]

instead of the bbm intake, you can go a cheaper route. using a Audi 20vt replica inletmanifold


i'm talking about this one:
http://www.ebay.de/itm/VW-16V-Turbo-...item5ae0dd03fd

i believe that http://www.huber-rennsporttechnik.de/ is the producer, i can't be too sure, but i know they sell them

[sasha18yug]

@ kompressorgolf....what i am interested is ... how much power you make with that turbo?... 20 psi is a bit to much for the street isnt it?... i mean traction issues and so on.... Sorry to be such a noob and ask... but wich gearbox code does the GTI in europe have? and i see you have posted 02a and 02j gearboxes are the ones to go with ... from what models are the gearboxes ?....
For clutches i have seen ACT clutch kits with 6 puck disc and lightend flighwheel... hope that is good enough ....
Quick question: can i get all the parts i need from vendor in Europe at good prices or should i order from the states and pay shipping and customs tax...
@weejunGL... thanks for that usefull advice... i am going to look at what they have to offer ... do you have good experiences with this vendor...i see he is in Germany wich makes it easier for me for shipping...

As for Engine Managment...can you guys give me some more information ... what you use kompressorgolf ...? a link...? what is it to be more exact ... i am not the best when it comes to electronics and i am affraid of tuning to be onest but maybe with some base tune from some tuner or guy i can start little by little....

Thanks guys for the replys and the usefull information...cheers Sasha

[kompressorgolf]

Look at SDSEFI.com should answer alot.

O2A and 02J are cable shifted gearboxes. found in mk4's corrados, and older passats91-98 or so

better design better to drive, nicer gearing. etc youll need a conversion for clutch cable as they are
ran hydraulic on these better trans.

my car is guestimated at about 350 hp. and yes it can be a bit much for the street, 10-12 psi is plenty for the street
really, but 20 is incredible fun! search around on the site for 02A swaps etc all these trans are bolt in for th
mk2 chassis.

[kompressorgolf]

check out my build threads as well lots of info there too.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea....-almost-there.

[Issam Abed]

Might be a silly question but why a 16V?

[sasha18yug]

Might be a silly question but why a 16V?

Well...its a bit complicated... i have options...

first... find a GTI in Romania ( i'm romanian so i can buy it and keep the number plates and insurance thing going in romania cause i have a house there)... cheap option for insurance and i dont have to put the turbo build in the papers and pay for all that ... but i'm not 100% legal... i mean insurance is valid in germany to but there can be issues ...lol..
Second option: find a GTI in germany and to the build in Romania ... and come back on my own risc with the car modded and then go to TÜV ... and they then decide if the car has strong enough brakes and the build is properly done so i can legaly drive it and all the mods need to be in the papers of the car...this is the more complicated option but i have some benefits... one : i am insured in germany with the car and the papers from the car are also german... so no police is going to pull me over every 2 weeks ... its much easier to find a car a good one here...
Third : Find a car in Germany that has either a: 16v , 1.8t or vr624v in it...with a turbo kit alllready installed and pay between 8 k and 10 k euros for it...

I kinda wanted to have all the work done by me and some buddies...and have a clear head about whats in the car and be sure that everything is new and all that...
The problem is... that i need somehwere arrround 9 k for parts only for the turbo build and suspension and brakes and and and.... and i can get some nice mk1 mk2 cars from here in the same price range...we will see...i am trying to find out the cheapest way to have a weekend car and a car that is relaible and making 320 -400 whp....

Funny that you ask... but what other option would you suggest engine wise ..or car wise..??...


PS: Sorry for the long reply cheers

[Youngfonza]

good luck with build

[bmwquick]

Have you looked at the 16V turbo thread?? It has MANY turbo builds with full specs of what most people are running. It will give you a general idea of what you need. http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...6VT-with-SPECS! Also I'm Romanian too!

[sasha18yug]

Have you looked at the 16V turbo thread?? It has MANY turbo builds with full specs of what most people are running. It will give you a general idea of what you need. http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...6VT-with-SPECS! Also I'm Romanian too!

Yeah i've allready gone true that thread and seen some setups from guys arround the forum... its nice to have so much information ... i really was thinking to get some tehnical advice and maybe some people can chime in and tell the best way to do it...often mistakes and all that...
I am also concerned about the tranny issues ... i have no idea if the stock GTI Tranny with a proper cluch would hold the power and off course an LSD ...


Hope to see some more information coming in this thread thanks againa guys and feel free to post ideas that might help me make a nice reliable and fast car put of an mk2...golf...cheers...

[thegave]

Can I just ask what the pros/cons are between using a standard 16v intake and a short runner intake eg BBM, RMR or modified S2/20v?

Are short runners always better, if not how can I make the most out of using the stock intake?

Thanks

[Prof315]

Yeah i've allready gone true that thread and seen some setups from guys arround the forum... its nice to have so much information ... i really was thinking to get some tehnical advice and maybe some people can chime in and tell the best way to do it...often mistakes and all that...
I am also concerned about the tranny issues ... i have no idea if the stock GTI Tranny with a proper cluch would hold the power and off course an LSD ...


Hope to see some more information coming in this thread thanks againa guys and feel free to post ideas that might help me make a nice reliable and fast car put of an mk2...golf...cheers...

A stock 020 will most definitely NOT hold up to the power levels you are looking for. And while a T3/T4 will certainly get you where you want power wise an .83 A/R Garrett 2871R will also do it with a (considerably) smaller footprint.

[9aba16vt]

Can I just ask what the pros/cons are between using a standard 16v intake and a short runner intake eg BBM, RMR or modified S2/20v?

Are short runners always better, if not how can I make the most out of using the stock intake?

Thanks

ROOM! there is no room when you use a stock intake. plumbing is too hard and always in the way.. the scirocco intake is good but still not the best...
sris's are the cleanest easiest thing to deal with..
throttle response too

[thegave]

Naah loads of space!



Ironically I've been looking at getting Da Bomb or some other short runner intake but I probably won't have enough space to do that, because I'm running aircon and PAS.

It's a DD. I like my comforts.

So throttle is response the only thing the intake makes a difference to? If so then I won't bother with swapping to serp and getting all the belts and pulleys right.

[weejunGL]

how about this for an intake?

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Ansaugbrucke-...item4ab99249b7

[9aba16vt]

Naah loads of space!



Ironically I've been looking at getting Da Bomb or some other short runner intake but I probably won't have enough space to do that, because I'm running aircon and PAS.

It's a DD. I like my comforts.

So throttle is response the only thing the intake makes a difference to? If so then I won't bother with swapping to serp and getting all the belts and pulleys right.

you dont loose any comforts... you will gain from it, trust me.. that elbow on the tb is not good for heat temps.. not that its too critical.
air condition doesnt get touched, and get a ps setup from a corrado because they moved the bottle to behind the battery for the boost pipe to clear. you dont have to change any hoses, the corrado puts a tee where thr bottle used to go, and then puts it up top out of the way, and imo looks 300xs better

[MEGA 16v GLI]

Sasha, i don't know how available salvage yards are in Europe but if you really love the MK2 chassis enough then i would buy an MK2 and swap a newer VW motor and trans. I love almost every MK2 and the weight is far more lighter than an MK3. The 16v is a good motor but the cylinder head design is definitely not the most well designed (NOT SAYING 16v's are BAD but the newer 20v's are better flowing especially if your looking to throw a turbo on.

I would try to find a 1.8L 20vT with gearbox or VR6 with gearbox and then add a turbo.

MS would be my first any only choice for engine management. You learn so much.

[thegave]

I already have the Corrado PAS bottle (and longer pipes, and the factory bracket), they are actually identical to G60 Golf, I just haven't gotten around to fitting them yet.

I'm still confused on how to make room for a SRI like BBM's Bomb; get all the accessories from ABA including A/C compressor?

Or are there some SRIs that will fit without needing to move any of the accessories?

[TODRW]

That more than 12K!!! I have been reading on this subject of sometime now and didnt think it would cost anywhere near that, not even half.............. but what do I know.

BUMMED NOW