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    Thread: APR K04 Build experience 2012 GLI bad software?

    1. Member Schrottplatzer's Avatar
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      06-11-2012 11:12 PM #1
      I took my list and car to Double J Motorwerks in Portland. They did a great job putting the below together in very quick time:

      2012 GLI: Volkswagen Racing Intake/Induktion Motorsports pipe. APR Stage III K04 kit, S3 FMIC, Techtonics Tuning 2.5" downpipe, Techtonics Tuning 2.5" Dual Borla exhaust, H&R Springs

      Joey took great care to make sure everything was right. We ran the car a few times and noticed some misfires. After agreeing to take it easy on the car I took it home for the weekend where I experienced more misfires, all the way to the point of disabled cylinders.

      It was suggested that the plugs be regapped; still problems.

      Swap plugs with $13 a piece NGKs; no change.

      The hardware is all VW/Audi, and the engine has only 1600 miles on it so it's not a hardware issue. We know there's plenty of air and compression so that leaves just fuel or spark as the culprit. It runs ok at lower RPMs with random single misfires, but under load or above about 4k bad things start to happen.

      It seems to me that the software isn't figure out quite yet. I'm royally disappointed; I chose APR because they are a world dominate programmer for VW/Audi. They have been alerted to the problem, so the ball is in their court now. We'll see if APR remembers the Volk in Volkswagen.

      Thanks to Josh at TT for the quick exhaust build and Joey and the team at DJM for transforming my car so quickly.

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      06-11-2012 11:35 PM #2
      Quote Originally Posted by Schrottplatzer View Post
      I took my list and car to Double J Motorwerks in Portland. They did a great job putting the below together in very quick time:

      2012 GLI: Volkswagen Racing Intake/Induktion Motorsports pipe. APR Stage III K04 kit, S3 FMIC, Techtonics Tuning 2.5" downpipe, Techtonics Tuning 2.5" Dual Borla exhaust, H&R Springs

      Joey took great care to make sure everything was right. We ran the car a few times and noticed some misfires. After agreeing to take it easy on the car I took it home for the weekend where I experienced more misfires, all the way to the point of disabled cylinders.

      It was suggested that the plugs be regapped; still problems.

      Swap plugs with $13 a piece NGKs; no change.

      The hardware is all VW/Audi, and the engine has only 1600 miles on it so it's not a hardware issue. We know there's plenty of air and compression so that leaves just fuel or spark as the culprit. It runs ok at lower RPMs with random single misfires, but under load or above about 4k bad things start to happen.

      It seems to me that the software isn't figure out quite yet. I'm royally disappointed; I chose APR because they are a world dominate programmer for VW/Audi. They have been alerted to the problem, so the ball is in their court now. We'll see if APR remembers the Volk in Volkswagen.

      Thanks to Josh at TT for the quick exhaust build and Joey and the team at DJM for transforming my car so quickly.
      I remember someone used different spark plugs and had problems with their kit too. I can't find the thread, but the person swapped them back and supposedly fixed the problem.

      Hopefully APR will chime in because I'm ready to order the APR K04 too for my '12 GLI.
      Last edited by sh{}e; 06-11-2012 at 11:38 PM.

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      06-12-2012 02:22 AM #3
      Sounds like coils, not plugs. Or at least electricial related. I'm still on my stock plugs with 20k on my K04. 34K total miles on my car, no misfires.
      2010 Mk6 GTI DSG SB; APR K04, Carbonio 1 & 2, UR catted/resonated DP, Eurojet FMIC, Billy Boat cat back Uni DSG flash 313 WHP!. Traded for;
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    4. Member NS01GTI's Avatar
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      2012 VW GLI K04
      06-12-2012 08:50 AM #4
      Sounds to me like a hardware issue. Not sure why you're so quick to point the finger at APR, aside from asking for support.
      2012 GLI DSG
      UNITRONIC TUNED K04 - Carbonio intake - UNITRONIC TBE - APR FMIC - Neuspeed TOP - HPA SHS Coilovers - HPA Red Motor Mount

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      06-12-2012 09:50 AM #5
      Quote Originally Posted by davesxx01 View Post
      Sounds like coils, not plugs. Or at least electricial related. I'm still on my stock plugs with 20k on my K04. 34K total miles on my car, no misfires.
      Make sure those coils are snapped in. They do have tendencies to pop out here and there.

    6. Member Schrottplatzer's Avatar
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      06-12-2012 09:53 AM #6
      Everything has been checked and double checked. I pointed the finger because it's a brand new car. New components professionally installed, so hardware is all 1,600 miles or younger. There were no ignition problems before the upgrade. I hope someone from APR can get on here and let me know what's going on.

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      06-12-2012 10:43 AM #7
      Quote Originally Posted by Schrottplatzer View Post
      Everything has been checked and double checked. I pointed the finger because it's a brand new car. New components professionally installed, so hardware is all 1,600 miles or younger. There were no ignition problems before the upgrade. I hope someone from APR can get on here and let me know what's going on.
      www.goapr.com/support/datalogging.php

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      06-12-2012 01:04 PM #8
      Yep, do a datalog and send it in. Some of the APR guys are in the UK for a big GTG now but I'm guessing they will be back next week so don't expect an immediate reply.

      It really does not matter how many miles are on your car either. Ran perfect before you had work done and mis fires after? Hardware or install problem. The place you had it installed at may be a great place but a harness bumped or slightly loose is all it takes.
      What codes is it throwing, mis fire in one cylinder only or multiple?
      You can go back and re check the right file was downloaded into your ECU also. Or see if someone at APR can pull you up and see what file was down loaded from them.

      Call their tech support, your receipt should have the file # from APR.
      2010 Mk6 GTI DSG SB; APR K04, Carbonio 1 & 2, UR catted/resonated DP, Eurojet FMIC, Billy Boat cat back Uni DSG flash 313 WHP!. Traded for;
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    9. Member nick0188's Avatar
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      06-12-2012 01:45 PM #9
      This probably isn't the problem, but you are running a 2.5" downpipe on software that calls for 3". Check for boost leaks on the hoses for the S3 and everywhere else (an actual leak test, no just listening while at idle or looking at a vag-com....pressurize the system and listen or do a smoke test). Make sure MAF is in the correct orientation and plugged in securly. What are the plugs gapped at? Whcih plugs? O2 sensors in the correct loacation and/or connected to the right plugs? You dissassembled all of this during the build, so guaranteed one of these is an issue. And once again...why run a smaller downpipe than the software called for?
      11 GTI APR K04
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    10. Member Schrottplatzer's Avatar
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      06-12-2012 11:08 PM #10
      So data logs were performed and it was apparent that there's not enough fuel beginning about 4500ish rpm and leaning further as the tac climbs.

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      06-13-2012 01:24 PM #11
      Post the log.
      2010 Mk6 GTI DSG SB; APR K04, Carbonio 1 & 2, UR catted/resonated DP, Eurojet FMIC, Billy Boat cat back Uni DSG flash 313 WHP!. Traded for;
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    12. Member nick0188's Avatar
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      11 APR K04 GTI, 03 Z1000
      06-13-2012 01:48 PM #12
      This makes me think one of your O2 sensors was messed up during the install.
      11 GTI APR K04
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    13. Member Schrottplatzer's Avatar
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      06-13-2012 11:22 PM #13
      If it was the o2 sensors I'd have problems all the time. The car runs pretty good under 4k.

    14. Member Schrottplatzer's Avatar
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      06-13-2012 11:23 PM #14
      Thanks to those who have sent me PMs with similar experiences with this kit on 2012 GLIs. Anyone have any real solutions?

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      06-13-2012 11:47 PM #15
      Quote Originally Posted by Schrottplatzer View Post
      Thanks to those who have sent me PMs with similar experiences with this kit on 2012 GLIs. Anyone have any real solutions?
      Did you scan your car for codes? Go to the dealership or get an OBD-II reader to see any codes. Do it even if the CEL is not being displayed.

    16. Member Schrottplatzer's Avatar
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      06-14-2012 09:33 AM #16
      Yep, scanned beyond just OBD II. VW has many more codes that can not be pulled with just OBD II. VCDS/VAG-COM is how we knew it was misfiring and shutting down cylinders. Not a fun thing to see on your one-month-old car.

      I've also had issues with it hunting for idle occasionally, mostly during a warm start-up. Anyone else experience this?

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      06-14-2012 10:29 AM #17
      Quote Originally Posted by Schrottplatzer View Post
      Yep, scanned beyond just OBD II. VW has many more codes that can not be pulled with just OBD II. VCDS/VAG-COM is how we knew it was misfiring and shutting down cylinders. Not a fun thing to see on your one-month-old car.

      I've also had issues with it hunting for idle occasionally, mostly during a warm start-up. Anyone else experience this?
      Quote Originally Posted by Schrottplatzer View Post
      Yep, scanned beyond just OBD II. VW has many more codes that can not be pulled with just OBD II. VCDS/VAG-COM is how we knew it was misfiring and shutting down cylinders. Not a fun thing to see on your one-month-old car.

      I've also had issues with it hunting for idle occasionally, mostly during a warm start-up. Anyone else experience this?
      You are going to start having to eliminate all the changes made. I think #3 in the list could be the culprit. I would start with the following in this order:


      1. Flashing the car back to stock to rule out software.

      2. Boost gauge install to check vacuum at idle. (indicate leaks)

      3. MAF troubleshooting. Do me a favor. With the car not running, unplug the maf sensor and then start the car. Tell me how it runs. This will force the ECU to run at default mappings.

      4. Go over the hardware install to make sure everything is installed correctly. This part people are reluctant to do because they trust their installer but mistakes happen. Are you using stock plugs? If not, go back to the stock plugs with the recommended gap before trying to remove any part of the kit.




      Do not rule anything out or try to blame the kit or installers. This will leave you frustrated and bitter. Remember, you made a lot of changes to the car and things like this can and will happen. Good luck to you, and we all will try to brainstorm with you to find a solution .
      Last edited by sh{}e; 06-14-2012 at 04:32 PM.

    18. Member Schrottplatzer's Avatar
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      06-14-2012 10:47 PM #18
      Thanks for the tip. I'm not blaming anyone, just declaring an issue and looking for help. From the data everything is fine until I hit about 4500rpm. Driving it feels fine until 4500 rpm. VCDS showed it going too lean starting at that point. One would think that if anything else was wrong it would have problems all the time. The only other symptom is that the engine hunts for a little bit during a warm startup.

    19. Member GlfSprtCT1's Avatar
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      06-15-2012 12:13 PM #19
      Just based on past experience from my 1.8t days, under certain rpms and loads, the ecu will use different sensors for thr a/f mix. My suggestion.. make sure the 02 sensors arent throwing codes and are in thier correct locations , no spacers etc. just my .02 , theres a ton of ko4's running around successfully, im sure we'll get this figured out.
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      06-15-2012 12:17 PM #20
      Quote Originally Posted by sh{}e View Post

      1. Go over the hardware install to make sure everything is installed correctly. This part people are reluctant to do because they trust their installer but mistakes happen. Are you using stock plugs? If not, go back to the stock plugs with the recommended gap before trying to remove any part of the kit.
      This x2
      People are used to changing out plugs on older Turbo cars. For our cars stock plugs work just fine. Only change them to something different unless your NEED to (I believe APR Stage 3 kits use different plugs).

      Also double check the install as was noted. Its easy to miss something such as a leak or a bolt not being tightened down or a plug not plugged in al lthe way.


      You also mention a missfires, what cylinders have missfires? Every time is it a specific cylinder or two or three? If so try swapping coilplugs with a cylinder having the issue and one that does not then run more logs and see if the missfire changed to a different cylinder.
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    21. Member DjSherif's Avatar
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      06-15-2012 02:55 PM #21
      I had some teething problems with my K04 as well. Some of it due to the install and some of it to do with the Coil packs.

      But the car is running super smooth and I have about 15,000 miles on my kit.

    22. 06-15-2012 04:02 PM #22
      I have a 2010 GTI that occasionally has problems starting and its stock software wise, but has intake downpipe and intercooler... I have pretty much narrowed it down to being a problem with the LPFP.. Unfortunately our cars do not have a sensor on the low pressure side of things so there would be no codes for the LPFP itself..

    23. Member Schrottplatzer's Avatar
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      06-16-2012 07:32 PM #23
      From what I've learned the GLI computer is set up a little different than the GTI, and 2012 is different than previous years. I guess I'm one of the guinea pigs for a new form of software. I've had more than a couple PMs of people with the same kit, on the same car, with the same problem. APR please help!

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      06-17-2012 08:58 PM #24
      Quote Originally Posted by Schrottplatzer View Post
      From what I've learned the GLI computer is set up a little different than the GTI, and 2012 is different than previous years. I guess I'm one of the guinea pigs for a new form of software. I've had more than a couple PMs of people with the same kit, on the same car, with the same problem. APR please help!
      Can these people chime in then or post logs? I'm getting this kit and want to know of these issues since this kit is known for OEM reliability. By the way, did you go back to the stock plugs?

    25. Member Schrottplatzer's Avatar
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      06-17-2012 11:26 PM #25
      I've still got the NGKs in, it runs fine under 4500 rpms, and I drive this car to work etc so I'm afraid to make any changes. So as not to flood the forum I cut a few of the misfire logs

      000768 - Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected
      P0300 - 000 -
      Freeze Frame:
      Fault Status: 01100000
      Fault Priority: 0
      Fault Frequency: 1
      Mileage: 2910 km
      Time Indication: 0
      Date: 2002.14.12
      Time: 12:44:03

      Freeze Frame:
      RPM: 6749 /min
      Load: 92.5 %
      Speed: 95.0 km/h
      Temperature: 99.0°C
      Temperature: 33.0°C
      Absolute Pres.: 1010.0 mbar
      Voltage: 13.716 V

      000771 - Cylinder 3
      P0303 - 000 - Misfire Detected
      Freeze Frame:
      Fault Status: 01100000
      Fault Priority: 0
      Fault Frequency: 1
      Mileage: 2910 km
      Time Indication: 0
      Date: 2002.14.12
      Time: 12:44:03

      Freeze Frame:
      RPM: 6749 /min
      Load: 92.5 %
      Speed: 95.0 km/h
      Temperature: 99.0°C
      Temperature: 33.0°C
      Absolute Pres.: 1010.0 mbar
      Voltage: 13.716 V

      000770 - Cylinder 2
      P0302 - 000 - Misfire Detected
      Freeze Frame:
      Fault Status: 01100000
      Fault Priority: 0
      Fault Frequency: 1
      Mileage: 2910 km
      Time Indication: 0
      Date: 2002.14.12
      Time: 12:44:03

      Freeze Frame:
      RPM: 6749 /min
      Load: 92.5 %
      Speed: 95.0 km/h
      Temperature: 99.0°C
      Temperature: 33.0°C
      Absolute Pres.: 1010.0 mbar
      Voltage: 13.716 V

      004874 - Cylinder Disabling
      P130A - 000 - - MIL ON
      Freeze Frame:
      Fault Status: 11100000
      Fault Priority: 0
      Fault Frequency: 1
      Mileage: 2910 km
      Time Indication: 0
      Date: 2002.14.12
      Time: 12:44:04

      Freeze Frame:
      RPM: 4981 /min
      Load: 99.6 %
      Speed: 103.0 km/h
      Temperature: 99.0°C
      Temperature: 34.0°C
      Absolute Pres.: 1010.0 mbar
      Voltage: 13.716 V

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